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5th gen VS 6th gen fueling


slowbird

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I wasn't happy with my stock 6th gen fueling back when it was new also, so I did several things that other 6th Gen owners have done and know to work.

 

Powercommander 3 or 5.  Five is better and smoother.  I've had both now and much prefer the PC5.

Disconnected the o2 sensor, data from which is not used by the PC 3 or 5. 

Synchronized the starter valves.

 

Ever since then the throttle response has been very smooth. VTEC engagement smoothness was like night and day.  No more lean surging around 5k RPM or steady state cruising.  No more abruptness when the throttle is opened from a closed throttle even at very low speeds.  I can lug the engine down to 3k RPM, pick it back up and the power comes on smooth.  In addition, I don't have any issues with mid-range torque.  When in the right gear, my 6th gen gets up and goes.  No it doesn't go like a liter bike, because it isn't. 

 

My fuel efficiency with the PC5 has been a low of 31, and a high of 44.  Around town it consistently gets 33-34, with a lot of stopping and going.  Out on the highway it consistently returns 43-44.  When I beat on it gets 31. 

 

I had a 5th gen with an exhaust and PC3 also.  It performed just about the same if I remember correctly.  I remember being very happy with its smooth throttle response.  The 5th and 6th when not choked by emissions are very similar in performance.  According to Motorcyclists magazine, the 6th gen actually has faster acceleration in the mid-range 45-55 mph & 65-80 mph range.  I just read that online review posted way back in 2002 just yesterday.

 

Also keep in mind that a few other things affect throttle response.  Things like drive chain slack or an old chain with tight or loose spots won't help.  Also, a too loose throttle cable magnifies abrupt throttle response.  So make sure these two are within the factory specifications. 

 

The perfectly smooth 6th Generation VFR800 exists underneath those stock bikes.  And it is "released" only after you disable the 02 sensor and unleash the ECU using a PC3/5.  That's because Honda had to neuter these bikes to meet the very strict 2008 emissions standards.

 

 

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9 hours ago, Rogue_Biker said:

I wasn't happy with my stock 6th gen fueling back when it was new also, so I did several things that other 6th Gen owners have done and know to work.

 

Powercommander 3 or 5.  Five is better and smoother.  I've had both now and much prefer the PC5.

Disconnected the o2 sensor, data from which is not used by the PC 3 or 5. 

Synchronized the starter valves.

 

Ever since then the throttle response has been very smooth. VTEC engagement smoothness was like night and day.  No more lean surging around 5k RPM or steady state cruising.  No more abruptness when the throttle is opened from a closed throttle even at very low speeds.  I can lug the engine down to 3k RPM, pick it back up and the power comes on smooth.  In addition, I don't have any issues with mid-range torque.  When in the right gear, my 6th gen gets up and goes.  No it doesn't go like a liter bike, because it isn't. 

 

My fuel efficiency with the PC5 has been a low of 31, and a high of 44.  Around town it consistently gets 33-34, with a lot of stopping and going.  Out on the highway it consistently returns 43-44.  When I beat on it gets 31. 

 

I had a 5th gen with an exhaust and PC3 also.  It performed just about the same if I remember correctly.  I remember being very happy with its smooth throttle response.  The 5th and 6th when not choked by emissions are very similar in performance.  According to Motorcyclists magazine, the 6th gen actually has faster acceleration in the mid-range 45-55 mph & 65-80 mph range.  I just read that online review posted way back in 2002 just yesterday.

 

Also keep in mind that a few other things affect throttle response.  Things like drive chain slack or an old chain with tight or loose spots won't help.  Also, a too loose throttle cable magnifies abrupt throttle response.  So make sure these two are within the factory specifications. 

 

The perfectly smooth 6th Generation VFR800 exists underneath those stock bikes.  And it is "released" only after you disable the 02 sensor and unleash the ECU using a PC3/5.  That's because Honda had to neuter these bikes to meet the very strict 2008 emissions standards.

 

 

 

 

Well, I mean we all already told him this, lol, but he didn't want to modify the bike...

As Far as unleashing the ECU with a power commander, I wouldn't say a PC unleashes it, it just smooths it out.

You really want to unleash the bike, you need to do fuel and ignition tuning, not just fuel.

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6 hours ago, CandyRedRC46 said:

 

 

Well, I mean we all already told him this, lol, but he didn't want to modify the bike...

 

I got the impression he had already made up his mind to go back to a prior generation after his first post.

 

From my personal experience going from 5th to 6th gen, during the first 5k miles on my 6th Gen I remember loving how much better the chassis was.  The 6th Gen felt way more planted and the brakes were stronger.  I also remember noticing the added response at midrange but that could have been masked by the VTEC engagement.  So I knew right away I had gotten a much improved version.  Then there was the looks....I'm pretty shallow so looks matter a lot to me.  Years before I bought my 6th Gen, I already loved the way it looked compared to my 5th Gen (but the 5th Gen was good looking too).

 

Also, having owned, and ridden, and read about a bunch of bikes back around 2004-2009, it was obvious everyone was having difficulty meeting the tough 2008 emissions standards.  I remember riding my friend's 2006 BMW K1200S and that bike had horrible fueling (much worse than my VFR800).  It took BMW several ECM re-flashes from the dealer just to make the bike enjoyable to ride at anything under half throttle!  Anyone who's ridden the Ducati 1098's back in 2007 know only too well how "fun" it is to ride below 5k RPM!  LOL!  I had a 2000 Suzuki Hayabusa and that bike was also pretty snatchy at low speeds.  I also had 2008 Buell 1125R and that sucker was rough below 5k RPM.  It wasn't just the manufacturer's trying to get the best fuel efficiency, it was to meet exhaust emissions and it took all of them some time to figure things out.  For example, I think Ducati finally just put an air injection unit in the 1199 years later just to get rid of the abruptness at part throttle.  But even to this day there are new bikes out there with similar fueling issues.  Read about the new Suzuki GSX1000F and the Yamaha FZ-09.

 

Honda, in their infinite wisdom, decided to jump the gun and make the 2002 VFR800 redesign emissions compliant for 2008 way back in 2002!  Can't blame them for thinking ahead right?  But I do blame them for settling on a less than ideal solution.  Whatever the case, all my bikes during that whole decade had some sort of aftermarket ECM controller, Powercommander or some other, to get over the emissions related ultra lean fueling issues.  It was just matter of fact.  I'm just glad it was THAT easy to fix.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • Member Contributer
On 6/8/2016 at 8:48 AM, CandyRedRC46 said:

 

 

Well, I mean we all already told him this, lol, but he didn't want to modify the bike...

 

 

I appreciate all the advice but I couldn't be happier with the 5th gen over the 6th. No amount of modifying could have made me like that gen VFR. I've had a 1st, 2nd, 4th and now 5th gen and the 6th is probably my least favorite of them all. It had its PRO's but I wasn't happy with it.

 

The brakes and chassis don't feel any worse on my 5th gen compared to the 6th. However the 5th gen has more Low-end and Mid-range IMO. I hated the VTEC and the snatchy throttle.

...and the noise the 5th gen makes is sooooo nice. Reminds me of my beloved 4th gen.

 

Anyways. I don't want a 6th vs 5th gen bashing thread to start. The new owner of the 6th loves it and I'm much happier with my 5th gen.

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On 6/25/2016 at 0:17 AM, slowbird said:

However the 5th gen has more Low-end and Mid-range IMO. I hated the VTEC and the snatchy throttle.

 

that all goes away with a tune

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15 minutes ago, CandyRedRC46 said:

 

that all goes away with a tune

 

 Granted.

However I now have a bike that doesn't require a tune for me to like it. It would just be the cherry on top.

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