V-Tec Advantage - Or Not

[MaxSwell]

I'd like to challenge the notion that the fifth gen is as quiet bike as the sixth gen. It is not even close. And the exhaust is not the biggest contributor. I would bet that if one were riding in a car with the window open next to a fifth at 6500+ rpm most people with good hearing would find it intolerable. Add in the phone users and radio listener it would be worse. The exhaust makes a good contribution also when under load at near-wide-open throttle.

I have a stock exhaust on a 2001. When I ride down the highway I observe the following nearly universally: (all RPMs measured in sixth gear)

4,000 rpm - following vehicles behave normal following distances;

5,000 rpm - they begin falling back or try to pass quickly

6,000 rpm - they are seldom within several hundred yards unless they are hell bent on getting in front of the noise and trying aggressively passing

7000 rpm and up - the following traffic tends to fall back to nearly out-of-sight

Now I suppose it is possible that, a couple hours after taking my shower and getting sweaty under my leathers, I smell bad, but I doubt that. :)

Does anyone else observe anything similar with their fifth?

[CornerCarver]

I'd like to challenge the notion that the fifth gen is as quiet bike as the sixth gen. It is not even close. And the exhaust is not the biggest contributor. I would bet that if one were riding in a car with the window open next to a fifth at 6500+ rpm most people with good hearing would find it intolerable. Add in the phone users and radio listener it would be worse. The exhaust makes a good contribution also when under load at near-wide-open throttle.

I have a stock exhaust on a 2001. When I ride down the highway I observe the following nearly universally: (all RPMs measured in sixth gear)

4,000 rpm - following vehicles behave normal following distances;

5,000 rpm - they begin falling back or try to pass quickly

6,000 rpm - they are seldom within several hundred yards unless they are hell bent on getting in front of the noise and trying aggressively passing

7000 rpm and up - the following traffic tends to fall back to nearly out-of-sight

Now I suppose it is possible that, a couple hours after taking my shower and getting sweaty under my leathers, I smell bad, but I doubt that. :)

Does anyone else observe anything similar with their fifth?

Terry, without a control group it could just as readily be assumed that the normal sort of drivers to be around you at 4,000 rpm in 6th gear on a 5G are slower more cautious drivers and when you are at 5k you begin to out pace those drivers.

By the time your speed equates to 6k you are "between groups" in driving classification and you are leaving others but the drivers who are hell bent on getting around you may just be drivers who normally travel at 20 over or are late for something.

By 7k you are throwing caution to the wind and everyone is using you as their "rabbit" to flush out the LEO's....My glass is always half full so grain of salt.

[MadScientist]

Given that it is not the most ideal measurement device, almost every smartphone on the market has a decibel meter application. This should be easy enough to solve in a nice empty parking lot IF we can find owners of a 5th and 6th gen with stock exhausts and the same smartphone (maybe impossible?). Place the phone in the same orientation at a set distance from the bike and take readings every 500 rpms. Any volunteers?

[Switchblade]

Honda UK 2002 Press Pack for the VFR, take from it what you will.

http://www.hoc.org.uk/gallery/press/2002/2002_VFR.pdf

"Take its renowned, high-powered V4 engine for a start. No longer simply a

high-revving powerhouse, it’s been lightened with a new chain-driven

camtrain and recharged with a unique new 2-stage valve control system, called

‘V4 VTEC,’ that combines the most effective power characteristics of 2-valve

and 4-valve engine design in one remarkable unit."

Really !!

"VFR reborn as a more dynamic and formidable sports tourer, this unique,

high-performance V4 engine was completely revised to achieve a stronger

surge of low-to-midrange power output coupled with the added benefits of

lower noise and lower emissions, all while maintaining the VFR’s traditional

Honda V4 power characteristics."

This is a Honda press release.

:"Until now, the VFR’s most impressive power output has been of the highrevving

4-valve variety. But with the introduction of its revolutionary new V4

VTEC system, the new VFR’s engine delivers stronger, more responsive torque

and power output at low-to-midrange engine speeds, and then switches valve

operation at higher engine speeds to deliver a breathtaking leap of Super Sport

performance. Amazingly enough, this major boost in total performance was

achieved without the slightest change to its bore, stroke, throttle bore,

crankshaft or other internal engine specifications."

Well Well !!!

[MaxSwell]

Terry, without a control group it could just as readily be assumed that the normal sort of drivers to be around you at 4,000 rpm in 6th gear on a 5G are slower more cautious drivers and when you are at 5k you begin to out pace those drivers.

By the time your speed equates to 6k you are "between groups" in driving classification and you are leaving others but the drivers who are hell bent on getting around you may just be drivers who normally travel at 20 over or are late for something.

By 7k you are throwing caution to the wind and everyone is using you as their "rabbit" to flush out the LEO's....My glass is always half full so grain of salt.

CC,

On my machine, 4,000 rpm is ~ 60 mph (indicated) (I calculate indicated speeds are between 8% and 9% too high) ;

5,000 ~ 70 indicated (gps says 64mph);

6,000 ~ 80 indicated (on a 70 mph speed limit freeway, if I'm doing indicated 80 mph, I'm being passed by just about everyone; I'm just keeping up.)

So, while you may be partially correct CC, I doubt that eliminates the noise from the primary cause of the observed behavior.

[Switchblade]

The most revolutionary development in the VFR’s new engine is the

introduction of a revolutionary new two-stage ‘V4 VTEC’ valve control system

which combines the best power characteristics of both 2-valve and 4-valve

combustion chamber designs. Basically, this highly effective new system keeps

the engine running on two valves per cylinder at low to midrange engine

speeds in order to maximise the engine’s thrust of smooth, strong low-end

torque, then switches to full 4-valve operation at higher engine speeds to take

advantage of this configuration’s high-rev power characteristics, thus

achieving the best of both worlds of engine design.

The new VFR’s unique V4 VTEC system features a set of compact,

hydraulically actuated lifter sleeves installed inside the inverted buckets of the

valvetrain’s direct-actuation valve lifters, over one intake valve and one

exhaust valve in each cylinder. During low-to-midrange operation, the lifter

sleeves slide benignly up and down over the tops of the valve stems, allowing

only two valves in each cylinder to open to maintain the enhanced torque and

powerful thrust of responsive low-end power and acceleration associated with

the best 2-valve engines.

At around 7,000rpm the entire personality of the engine suddenly changes,

as a burst of oil pressure to the lifter sleeves forces their spring-loaded

engagement pins to slide across the centre hole and initiate actuation of the

remaining two valves of each cylinder. The effect of this changeover is

breathtaking, as the engine suddenly comes on cam, full 4-valve operation

kicks in, and the tachometer needle takes a dramatic leap toward redline in the

characteristic rush of high-rev power commonly associated with the most

high-performance 4-valve 4-stroke engines.

In achieving the best of both worlds of 4-stroke engine design, the V4 VTEC

In achieving the best of both worlds of 4-stroke engine design, the V4 VTEC

system also gives a further boost to the VFR’s midrange performance to

provide a more linear surge of acceleration that seems to instantly jump in

response to throttle input from virtually anywhere in the rev range, rather

than building up slowly to a conventional 4-valve engine’s peak powerproducing

revs.

One unmistakable result of this new 2-stage power output is the

exceptional roll-on performance the new VFR delivers at the twist of its

throttle—even when fully loaded for touring with passenger and gear.

I think Honda a excellent job !!!

And thanks Mohawk for the material >>> ....

[MaxSwell]

Honda UK 2002 Press Pack for the VFR, take from it what you will.

http://www.hoc.org.uk/gallery/press/2002/2002_VFR.pdf

"Take its renowned, high-powered V4 engine for a start. No longer simply a

high-revving powerhouse, it’s been lightened with a new chain-driven

camtrain and recharged with a unique new 2-stage valve control system, called

‘V4 VTEC,’ that combines the most effective power characteristics of 2-valve

and 4-valve engine design in one remarkable unit."

Really !!

"VFR reborn as a more dynamic and formidable sports tourer, this unique,

high-performance V4 engine was completely revised to achieve a stronger

surge of low-to-midrange power output coupled with the added benefits of

lower noise and lower emissions, all while maintaining the VFR’s traditional

Honda V4 power characteristics."

This is a Honda press release.

:"Until now, the VFR’s most impressive power output has been of the highrevving

4-valve variety. But with the introduction of its revolutionary new V4

VTEC system, the new VFR’s engine delivers stronger, more responsive torque

and power output at low-to-midrange engine speeds, and then switches valve

operation at higher engine speeds to deliver a breathtaking leap of Super Sport

performance. Amazingly enough, this major boost in total performance was

achieved without the slightest change to its bore, stroke, throttle bore,

crankshaft or other internal engine specifications."

Well Well !!!

Spoken like someone who knows what he's talking about. I agree completely.

BTW: I owned two Integra GSRs, the first generation (1994) and the last generation (2001) (stolen from my driveway in 2005 - Bastages!). Fabulous machines and best ones I've ever owned. Not the same VTEC as the motorcycles.

[Switchblade]

"80Nm/8,750min-1 (95/1/EC)"

[MaxSwell]

"80Nm/8,750min-1 (95/1/EC)"

Switch, can you explain for us non-engineer types?

[MadScientist]

80 Nm (59 ft-lbs) @ 8750 RPM per Directive 95/1/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of February 2, 1995 on the Maximum Design Speed, Maximum Net Engine Power of Two- or Three-wheel Motor Vehicles.

[Switchblade]

80 Nm (59 ft-lbs) @ 8750 RPM per Directive 95/1/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of February 2, 1995 on the Maximum Design Speed, Maximum Net Engine Power of Two- or Three-wheel Motor Vehicles.

Yeh what he wrote ^^^ Now if he could convert that to SAE ..

[CornerCarver]

"The purpose of the VTEC system on the Interceptor, of course, is a broadening of the power curve. Operation on two valves per cylinder at lower rpm levels increases power and torque, while operation on four valves per cylinder at higher rpm levels increases horsepower and torque. Most engines must be tuned to compromise power at one (or both) extremes of the rpm range. With VTEC, the Interceptor does not have to accept this compromise. "

If Ken will forgive a bit more friendly argument about the rationale for VTEC...

We have two alternative theories in play here:

#1) VTEC was introduced as a performance enhancement

#2) VTEC was introduced as a flawed(?) response to stricter regulation

Now I don't have any real evidence and I've read hardly any industry press over the past twenty years, so I am a poor historian. Still, I can't quite bite on theory #1. To my mind, the decisive evidence against theory #1 is the almost total lack of actual performance improvement. Other than some small gains at the very top of the HP curve, the VTEC mill fails to improve upon the 5th Gen and, worse, it pays for this lack of improvement with an unsettling notch in the middle of the power curve and troublesome valve maintenance.

I'm prepared to lay any of the usual corporate sins at Honda's feet: misreading the market, being short-sighted, etc. But I can't bring myself to believe they don't understand motorcycles or aren't competent engineers. They saw then the same power curve comparisons we see now.

I have seen the marketing blurbs Switchblade posted. I see the way that bolsters theory #1. In my mind, I file that under "the marketing department being the marketing department". They will always put the best possible spin on a development regardless of whether or not that spin reflects the actual history of that development.

I guess if I really wanted to move this beyond coffee house speculation, I would have to research whether or not any significant new regulations were actually introduced around 2002. It could have been later than that, as Honda would need to anticipate the full life of the 6h Gen.

I never quote anything from "Honda" .

Just to be clear .

I never quote anything from "Honda" .

Just to be clear .

Fair enough. I saw this:

"The purpose of the VTEC system on the Interceptor, of course, is a broadening of the power curve. Operation on two valves per cylinder at lower rpm levels increases power and torque, while operation on four valves per cylinder at higher rpm levels increases horsepower and torque. Most engines must be tuned to compromise power at one (or both) extremes of the rpm range. With VTEC, the Interceptor does not have to accept this compromise. "

...in quotation marks earlier in the thread and assumed it was some bit of marketing-ese from Honda (maybe a second-hand quotation passed along via industry journalists) back when the VTEC VFR was being rolled out.

Honda UK 2002 Press Pack for the VFR, take from it what you will.

http://www.hoc.org.uk/gallery/press/2002/2002_VFR.pdf

"Take its renowned, high-powered V4 engine for a start. No longer simply a

high-revving powerhouse, it’s been lightened with a new chain-driven

camtrain and recharged with a unique new 2-stage valve control system, called

‘V4 VTEC,’ that combines the most effective power characteristics of 2-valve

and 4-valve engine design in one remarkable unit."

Really !!

"VFR reborn as a more dynamic and formidable sports tourer, this unique,

high-performance V4 engine was completely revised to achieve a stronger

surge of low-to-midrange power output coupled with the added benefits of

lower noise and lower emissions, all while maintaining the VFR’s traditional

Honda V4 power characteristics."

This is a Honda press release.

:"Until now, the VFR’s most impressive power output has been of the highrevving

4-valve variety. But with the introduction of its revolutionary new V4

VTEC system, the new VFR’s engine delivers stronger, more responsive torque

and power output at low-to-midrange engine speeds, and then switches valve

operation at higher engine speeds to deliver a breathtaking leap of Super Sport

performance. Amazingly enough, this major boost in total performance was

achieved without the slightest change to its bore, stroke, throttle bore,

crankshaft or other internal engine specifications."

Well Well !!!

The most revolutionary development in the VFR’s new engine is the

introduction of a revolutionary new two-stage ‘V4 VTEC’ valve control system

which combines the best power characteristics of both 2-valve and 4-valve

combustion chamber designs. Basically, this highly effective new system keeps

the engine running on two valves per cylinder at low to midrange engine

speeds in order to maximise the engine’s thrust of smooth, strong low-end

torque, then switches to full 4-valve operation at higher engine speeds to take

advantage of this configuration’s high-rev power characteristics, thus

achieving the best of both worlds of engine design.

The new VFR’s unique V4 VTEC system features a set of compact,

hydraulically actuated lifter sleeves installed inside the inverted buckets of the

valvetrain’s direct-actuation valve lifters, over one intake valve and one

exhaust valve in each cylinder. During low-to-midrange operation, the lifter

sleeves slide benignly up and down over the tops of the valve stems, allowing

only two valves in each cylinder to open to maintain the enhanced torque and

powerful thrust of responsive low-end power and acceleration associated with

the best 2-valve engines.

At around 7,000rpm the entire personality of the engine suddenly changes,

as a burst of oil pressure to the lifter sleeves forces their spring-loaded

engagement pins to slide across the centre hole and initiate actuation of the

remaining two valves of each cylinder. The effect of this changeover is

breathtaking, as the engine suddenly comes on cam, full 4-valve operation

kicks in, and the tachometer needle takes a dramatic leap toward redline in the

characteristic rush of high-rev power commonly associated with the most

high-performance 4-valve 4-stroke engines.

In achieving the best of both worlds of 4-stroke engine design, the V4 VTEC

In achieving the best of both worlds of 4-stroke engine design, the V4 VTEC

system also gives a further boost to the VFR’s midrange performance to

provide a more linear surge of acceleration that seems to instantly jump in

response to throttle input from virtually anywhere in the rev range, rather

than building up slowly to a conventional 4-valve engine’s peak powerproducing

revs.

One unmistakable result of this new 2-stage power output is the

exceptional roll-on performance the new VFR delivers at the twist of its

throttle—even when fully loaded for touring with passenger and gear.

I think Honda a excellent job !!!

And thanks Mohawk for the material >>> ....

This is rich.

For the first part that I bolded, I bet a good marketing guy could make some people believe in the tooth fairy. I have never experienced a vtec transition that was breathtaking even with that large dip engineered into the torque curve.

And the second bolded section must be the reason so many 6G guys drop a tooth on the front sprocket even after Mother Honda already did this in addition to revising the gearing in 1-3 gears to make the "seem to instantly jump in response to throttle input"...

80 Nm (59 ft-lbs) @ 8750 RPM per Directive 95/1/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of February 2, 1995 on the Maximum Design Speed, Maximum Net Engine Power of Two- or Three-wheel Motor Vehicles.

Yeh what he wrote ^^^ Now if he could convert that to SAE ..

That is converted to SAE 59 ft-lbs of torque at 8750 RPM is the agreed upon limit for that EC directive.

[Baileyrock]

BiKenG asked for numbers between two bikes which is a perfectly valid and objective question. The bikes are both VFRs so one would think the question is acceptable for a...........VFR FORUM! By the way, I greatly appreciate the information provided.

As we see today, the admin purges all old archives, destroying all helpful historical information. This means that previously solved issues will keep cropping up in perpetuity. So "The Pro/Con of Vtec has been beaten to death here for the last 14 years " is irrelevant since people join this forum every single day and the 5th gen market is still very active. I've been here a very short while, and my first bike is a '99. Do you think that just maybe I come here for information about my bike?

I am astounded at the criticism of the poster. If one ignored his post and read only your responses you'd think that he insulted your mothers. Ironically given your responses, the first thing an objective observer would think is that that everyone who owns VTEC feels emotionally fragile due to their bike being a step in the wrong direction and has to personally defend it, where no defense is otherwise needed, as though someone questioned their manhood. On your own behalf, you critics would have been better off ignoring this thread than sharing those thoughts.

Your points are actually very valid. I guess as a mod here my thoughts are tainted from all the US/Them post about the subject over the last decade plus that got ugly and i had to moderate them.

I also forget that most all of those threads have been purged long ago, but I remember them like it was yesterday because it was Viffer brother against viffer brother. Oh the pain of it!

So I apologize to anyone I may have offended.

It just has always bothered me when members say one VFR model sux compared to another. I would say just about 100% of the folks here ride a VFR of some form or model and we love each and every one of them and if you dog one model you dog a large number of members as well.

The worst one's were members who had never even ridden a vtec, but trashed them completely based on someone else's opinion.

Flame On!

Just like almost every other thread about Pros & Cons of Vtec the posts are getting heated and people are taking offense.

BTW Vtec's are set-up extremely Lean(again for emissions) and have smaller tube headers that started on all Cat equipped VFR's(again emissions) from 00-on.

I think if you fed the same fuel levels and larger exhaust of the 98-99 VFR you would have a much cleaner comparo of power levels and delivery.

[Switchblade]

"The purpose of the VTEC system on the Interceptor, of course, is a broadening of the power curve. Operation on two valves per cylinder at lower rpm levels increases power and torque, while operation on four valves per cylinder at higher rpm levels increases horsepower and torque. Most engines must be tuned to compromise power at one (or both) extremes of the rpm range. With VTEC, the Interceptor does not have to accept this compromise. "

If Ken will forgive a bit more friendly argument about the rationale for VTEC...

We have two alternative theories in play here:

#1) VTEC was introduced as a performance enhancement

#2) VTEC was introduced as a flawed(?) response to stricter regulation

Now I don't have any real evidence and I've read hardly any industry press over the past twenty years, so I am a poor historian. Still, I can't quite bite on theory #1. To my mind, the decisive evidence against theory #1 is the almost total lack of actual performance improvement. Other than some small gains at the very top of the HP curve, the VTEC mill fails to improve upon the 5th Gen and, worse, it pays for this lack of improvement with an unsettling notch in the middle of the power curve and troublesome valve maintenance.

I'm prepared to lay any of the usual corporate sins at Honda's feet: misreading the market, being short-sighted, etc. But I can't bring myself to believe they don't understand motorcycles or aren't competent engineers. They saw then the same power curve comparisons we see now.

I have seen the marketing blurbs Switchblade posted. I see the way that bolsters theory #1. In my mind, I file that under "the marketing department being the marketing department". They will always put the best possible spin on a development regardless of whether or not that spin reflects the actual history of that development.

I guess if I really wanted to move this beyond coffee house speculation, I would have to research whether or not any significant new regulations were actually introduced around 2002. It could have been later than that, as Honda would need to anticipate the full life of the 6h Gen.

I never quote anything from "Honda" .

Just to be clear .

I never quote anything from "Honda" .

Just to be clear .

Fair enough. I saw this:

"The purpose of the VTEC system on the Interceptor, of course, is a broadening of the power curve. Operation on two valves per cylinder at lower rpm levels increases power and torque, while operation on four valves per cylinder at higher rpm levels increases horsepower and torque. Most engines must be tuned to compromise power at one (or both) extremes of the rpm range. With VTEC, the Interceptor does not have to accept this compromise. "

...in quotation marks earlier in the thread and assumed it was some bit of marketing-ese from Honda (maybe a second-hand quotation passed along via industry journalists) back when the VTEC VFR was being rolled out.

Honda UK 2002 Press Pack for the VFR, take from it what you will.

http://www.hoc.org.uk/gallery/press/2002/2002_VFR.pdf

"Take its renowned, high-powered V4 engine for a start. No longer simply a

high-revving powerhouse, it’s been lightened with a new chain-driven

camtrain and recharged with a unique new 2-stage valve control system, called

‘V4 VTEC,’ that combines the most effective power characteristics of 2-valve

and 4-valve engine design in one remarkable unit."

Really !!

"VFR reborn as a more dynamic and formidable sports tourer, this unique,

high-performance V4 engine was completely revised to achieve a stronger

surge of low-to-midrange power output coupled with the added benefits of

lower noise and lower emissions, all while maintaining the VFR’s traditional

Honda V4 power characteristics."

This is a Honda press release.

:"Until now, the VFR’s most impressive power output has been of the highrevving

4-valve variety. But with the introduction of its revolutionary new V4

VTEC system, the new VFR’s engine delivers stronger, more responsive torque

and power output at low-to-midrange engine speeds, and then switches valve

operation at higher engine speeds to deliver a breathtaking leap of Super Sport

performance. Amazingly enough, this major boost in total performance was

achieved without the slightest change to its bore, stroke, throttle bore,

crankshaft or other internal engine specifications."

Well Well !!!

The most revolutionary development in the VFR’s new engine is the

introduction of a revolutionary new two-stage ‘V4 VTEC’ valve control system

which combines the best power characteristics of both 2-valve and 4-valve

combustion chamber designs. Basically, this highly effective new system keeps

the engine running on two valves per cylinder at low to midrange engine

speeds in order to maximise the engine’s thrust of smooth, strong low-end

torque, then switches to full 4-valve operation at higher engine speeds to take

advantage of this configuration’s high-rev power characteristics, thus

achieving the best of both worlds of engine design.

The new VFR’s unique V4 VTEC system features a set of compact,

hydraulically actuated lifter sleeves installed inside the inverted buckets of the

valvetrain’s direct-actuation valve lifters, over one intake valve and one

exhaust valve in each cylinder. During low-to-midrange operation, the lifter

sleeves slide benignly up and down over the tops of the valve stems, allowing

only two valves in each cylinder to open to maintain the enhanced torque and

powerful thrust of responsive low-end power and acceleration associated with

the best 2-valve engines.

At around 7,000rpm the entire personality of the engine suddenly changes,

as a burst of oil pressure to the lifter sleeves forces their spring-loaded

engagement pins to slide across the centre hole and initiate actuation of the

remaining two valves of each cylinder. The effect of this changeover is

breathtaking, as the engine suddenly comes on cam, full 4-valve operation

kicks in, and the tachometer needle takes a dramatic leap toward redline in the

characteristic rush of high-rev power commonly associated with the most

high-performance 4-valve 4-stroke engines.

In achieving the best of both worlds of 4-stroke engine design, the V4 VTEC

In achieving the best of both worlds of 4-stroke engine design, the V4 VTEC

system also gives a further boost to the VFR’s midrange performance to

provide a more linear surge of acceleration that seems to instantly jump in

response to throttle input from virtually anywhere in the rev range, rather

than building up slowly to a conventional 4-valve engine’s peak powerproducing

revs.

One unmistakable result of this new 2-stage power output is the

exceptional roll-on performance the new VFR delivers at the twist of its

throttle—even when fully loaded for touring with passenger and gear.

I think Honda a excellent job !!!

And thanks Mohawk for the material >>> ....

This is rich.

For the first part that I bolded, I bet a good marketing guy could make some people believe in the tooth fairy. I have never experienced a vtec transition that was breathtaking even with that large dip engineered into the torque curve.

And the second bolded section must be the reason so many 6G guys drop a tooth on the front sprocket even after Mother Honda already did this in addition to revising the gearing in 1-3 gears to make the "seem to instantly jump in response to throttle input"...

80 Nm (59 ft-lbs) @ 8750 RPM per Directive 95/1/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of February 2, 1995 on the Maximum Design Speed, Maximum Net Engine Power of Two- or Three-wheel Motor Vehicles.

Yeh what he wrote ^^^ Now if he could convert that to SAE ..

That is converted to SAE 59 ft-lbs of torque at 8750 RPM is the agreed upon limit for that EC directive.

Sorry it does fit YOUR description.

I mite add I have ridden what i would call the best example of a modified 5th gen . Grif's 5th gen is truly a master piece. The performance parts make it a accelerate hard and now he has upgraded the suspension it is now a total package.

[dgordon]

I love all Viffers. The biggest issue outside of which gen you bought is the fact you bought one. Spoils you entirely for anything else. :-)

Dave

[Switchblade]

I love all Viffers. The biggest issue outside of which gen you bought is the fact you bought one. Spoils you entirely for anything else. :-)

Dave

Who are you writing to, if its me you need to read the post your posting in .

Dave too. :(

[Baileyrock]

[RobF]

I do feel bad for BiKenG. We chased him out of his own thread, unfairly I think. I own exactly one motorcycle, a VTEC VFR, and still I believe pretty much the entirety of the thesis he posted back in #15

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/82900-v-tec-advantage-or-not/?p=1028168

I love my 6th Gen, but if I could have the same 2005 ABS bike without the VTEC, I would trade in a heartbeat.

Anyway, I certainly didn't feel like he was trolling me, or anyone else for that matter.

Come back, Ken. We're sorry. Plus also, your return will be the perfect opportunity to admit that I was right all along about the emissions rationale for VTEC.

Here, I'll start your triumphant return post for you to save you the typing:

Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears. I've had time to really contemplate the deep wisdom, no, that won't do... the penetrating genius of RobF and the cogent analysis he shared back in post #6 which you've no doubt already bookmarked...

[Duc2V4]

Having both a 5 Gen and 6 Gen, which I bought first, I enjoy both and find that I really enjoy the 6 gen for its intended purpose I bought it for, commuting/touring. Ironic all this VTEC negativity, as it was the VTEC engagement that threw a smile on my face when I did my test ride. I hit the freeway on ramp, twisted the throttle and BAM! hit that VTEC engagement point and I said SOLD!

I actually had the 6 Gen for almost 2 years before I decided I wanted a VFR just for play and figured the 5 Gen was the ticket. My main reason was for the GDCs and I liked the style of it too but ultimately it was because I didn't think having two of the exact same model made sense to me. Although the 5 Gen is more of my "play bike" I do find myself taking the 6 Gen out just for fun but the wife would prefer that I don't use it for that purpose as it was really meant to be my commuter (I.e. Don't crash it as that's your transportation to work!).

Although I do ride both quite often I sometimes grab the 6 Gen to run errands and maybe do some "exploratory rides" as it just seems to be so well suited to these task. I'll say this, it's hard for me to pick a winner here but VTEC or no VTEC I wouldn't trade either of these bikes right now!

[RC1237V]

01-02vfrdyno.jpg

am I missing something the 01 is non vtec correct? how do you say the vtec causes a slump in power? they are so very close in power the entire rpm range. it looks like the 02 is down what 2HP at 6500rpm just before vtec. I know everyone is expert riders and everything and can feel the difference .1 HP makes but that little bit of HP difference does not make vtec a bad concept.

I have ridden 3rd gens 4th gens 5th gens and several 6 gens, the tuned 3rd and 4th gens are just bad ass and fun as hell. not to give 5th gen owners a hard time but they just felt meh to me. not a bad bike I mean hell its a vfr, just did not do it for me. the 6 gens though, they just fit me better and I LOVE the vtec, would not want it any other way.

just my 2 cents take it with a grain of salt

I think most people know that the complexity, weight and onerous valve adjustments when compared to systems that do not have it make the Vtec the modern equivalent of the 16" front wheel size that Honda wanted to hang on to for too long just because it was their idea and in theory it is a positive.

I am not even going to discuss the loss of the ultra reliable gear driven cams vs cam chain tensioners as I don't want to cloud the point that Vtec, AS IMPLEMENTED ON THE VFR (not the same as their cars) is a net negative (or if you are an ardent supporter you would argue for net neutral) technology.

Many may reply that the Vtec transition is not an issue and that is the point. Dutchy's graph shows that by the time the other 2 valves per cylinder open the bike is struggling for air so much that the power has dropped and the opening is just a little more noise as the engine plays catch up from Vtec opening to 9k rpm or so. That is a big hole from 5-9k in the torque curve when compared to the previous power plant.

No intent to bash any other VFR owners just a question to Honda as to why they continue to push the bike version of Vtec...

I believe the chart I posted is more representative of the two bikes VTEC I have riden.

I dont see any problems with the "VTEC TRANSITION" in my graph or the two VTEC's I have ridden.

Since your posting dyno charts, I have added the NON- V-tec 7th Gen curves to show how much power you can make without a complicated valve-train. In fact, it only has one cam per bank....I guess the extra 438cc doesn't hurt either......I do miss the exhaust note and gear drive noises of the 3rd gen though......

[Ultimatevfr]

Well I just have to say that as soon as they get this in to product ,I'm parking the VFR.

[BusyLittleShop]

My first VTEC experience was disbelief... I traded rides with my brother Rich Merrill and whoa, I thought I was bumped from behind but it

was only a bump in the powerband... technically speaking if VTEC were an performance advantage Honda would have raced it... if you

wish to understand what Honda really knows about a smooth V4 power delivery then its the RC45 or the new RC213V-S...

Performance Bikes
"The RC45 motor feels like a VFR except with more of everything-acres of torque
and smooth power delivery. Basically the RC45 gives you it all- bottom end plod,
midrange drive and top end rush. after all the RC45 was inspired by the RVF-a hand
built Formula One missle."

Vaya Con Dios Rich...

[BCmcrider]

Having both a 5 Gen and 6 Gen, which I bought first, I enjoy both and find that I really enjoy the 6 gen for its intended purpose I bought it for, commuting/touring. Ironic all this VTEC negativity, as it was the VTEC engagement that threw a smile on my face when I did my test ride. I hit the freeway on ramp, twisted the throttle and BAM! hit that VTEC engagement point and I said SOLD!

There's the key everyone is dancing around, they did it because it would be fun.

[Switchblade]

copied pics 071.jpg

lback-linkback.jpg

The one they made more of and still produce today. VTEC.

[Alaskan]

Although not the question asked by the OP (wherever he went), I was dissatisfied with the VTEC transition on my 2004. A trip to the dynotuner fixed that, but at some cost in fuel efficiency, See attached. I know many 6th Gen owners don't mind the stock fueling, but as you can see my VFR had a horrible curve before the tune.

By the way, I use AMSOIL . . .