2017 Rvf1000 V4

[BiKenG]

I think CornerCarver is right. There isn't a cat in hell's chance of a VFR1000. At least, not yet. Who knows what the future holds but right now it looks very certain that any new V four will be a WSB homologation special. However I'm not sure why there's any doubt about being able to make one for a price within the rules. A bike doesn't actually need to be expensive, just have the potential to be good and how much more expensive is a V four compared to an in-line 4? Not a lot according to Aprilia.

I have to say I do really like the Aprilia Tuono V4R. It's everything you'd want in a (semi) naked V four. Terrific performance and handling with a characterful engine. The downside is an appalling thirst for fuel. My FireFighter (naked FireBlade conversion) does 53 mpg on a European trip, whereas owners report a Tuono managing 33 mpg on a similar journey. I worked it out, the difference in fuel cost pays for a new set of tyres for every trip, which rather brings it into perspective doesn't it. As someone once said, "the Aprilia V4 is a remarkable feat of engineering, to make such a small engine use so much fuel is remarkable".

There is also the power issue. One of the problem manufacturers are trying to solve is to make powerful machines ridable at low speed. In very simplistic terms, if an engine produces 20 units of thrust, each 10% opening of the throttle adds 2 units. If the engine makes 200, then that same 10% throttle increase produces an extra 20 units of thrust which means trying to ride smoothly and without massive lunges forward at every small throttle movement is extremely hard. This is what all the electronic ride modes are all about - especially for big powerful twins which are already less smooth than engines with more cylinders. However, the VFR800 has no such need of electronics as the maximum power available is within the bounds of being very controllable and in truth, for most uses it is more than adequate for any road usage. How many Tuono users actually use all that power, and please understand, that max power figure is ONLY achieved with full throttle at the engine speed of max torque (i.e. close to the red line) in top when no longer accelerating, i.e. MAX SPEED. How many of use ride like that, really? It's no longer about how good you are as a rider, it's about whether it is actually possible on the roads and nowadays it's not. You get caught at even 120 in this country and there's a good chance you'll go to jail. This is not a slap on the wrist and I really do not want to go to jail. It's one of the reasons why I'm no longer interested in race replicas that encourage (almost force) you to ride at over 100mph everywhere as at any lower speeds they're a pain in the ar... er, wrists and neck etc. Ok, so I'm getting older which makes that all the less acceptable, but I ask you, what is the point of a bike that looks like a race track refugee. What does a stock FireBlade do that my FireFighter doesn't do as well? Having had and ridden both I can confirm that below 100 mph - NOTHING. In fact it's far worse. The upright naked bike is better in town, better in the Alps and better on the motorway at legal speeds which is the important point. A full on race replica sports bike is better at NOTHING when ridden at legal speeds, or even significantly above. It's all just image and for show.

Ok, a VFR is not a race replica, but it does have a fairing and they are for either of only 2 purposes. For weather protection and/or for streamlining. I've just covered the latter and nowadays, I have no interest in weather protection. Sorry, if the weather's shit, I take the car. There have been times when I was commuting in all weathers (ha, on a VFR750) but I don't need to do that now. So for me, a fairing is an unnecessary nuisance. Makes a bike heavier and far more difficult to work on. Hence my bike projects these days tend to involve taking fairings off otherwise excellent bikes. So would I attempt to do that to any new RVF? Sure, I'd love to give it a go, but it will be too much money to invest in what would be a bitch of a job. Mechanicals are relatively to remove. Electronics are something else as they are so deeply ingrained in the design of the bike. Replacement metal parts can always be made relatively cheaply, but replacement electronics would cost way more than the whole bike to develop. It's simply not viable. However, if anyone wants to throw a new RVF at me and ask me to have a go, it would be rude to refuse wouldn't it.

On a final note, I can't really see why people are so desperate for a VFR1000 anyway. If you do want a bigger more powerful bike than a VFR800, get a VFR1200. It is a seriously great bike. Smooth powerful engine and handles great. A bike that's good enough to lap Millbrook proving ground Alpine circuit 13 seconds a lap faster than an RC30 cannot be all that bad. Don't get hung up on the weight, it's really not noticeable and the fuel tank range is Ok. Ignore the bike journalists who are either ignorant or stupid, or both and currently they have a downer on Honda so pick on anything they can to criticise. The same journalist who slated the VFR's pathetic tank range (apparently only 160 miles, but it'll do more than that) subsequently said of the Ducati Multistrada's identical 160 mile range as "quite acceptable as who needs to go more than 160 miles between fuel stops anyway". I just don't understand why anyone who wants a bigger VFR than the 800 wouldn't find the 1200 to fit the bill. Ok, a little quirky looking from some angles, but let's be honest, the 800 V-tec is no beauty from the front and that's being polite. My problem with both (apart from dislike of fairings) is the handlebar angle, but everyone is different and it is truly impossible to design a bike that has perfect ergos for everyone. I just change the bars.

Sorry, too much early morning rambling.

We'll have to wait and see what Honda finally decides, but my money is NOT on any VFR1000.

[V4 Rosso]

There will be a 1000cc V4 with a sub $40,000 Euro price to meet WSBK homologation rules.

I hope you're right. This is what a Honda exec had to say about it a few months ago:

At the recent Milan show, MCN quizzed Tetsuo Suzuki who is the head of Honda’s Research and Design department, which is responsible for road bike development and which also runs the Honda Racing Corporation (HRC), about these discoveries. In surprisingly candid form, Suzuki revealed: “There are three projects which Honda has raised and all of these are under serious consideration at the moment. The superbike market has changed a lot over the past few years and we need to make sure we take this into account in our decisions. “The three options open to us include a new replacement for the Fireblade, the RVF1000 you have mentioned and also a cheaper version of the RC213V-S. We will be studying all three in parallel and all are under serious consideration, but it is likely there will be one or perhaps two of the three options made for production. “In terms of the future of the Fireblade we do not want to make something that is as extreme as some bikes, like the Yamaha R1M for example. The performance and concept [for the Fireblade] is not aimed at track riders; that’s not the purpose of the bike. The concept is to have a usable road bike. “As far as the possibility of an RVF1000 that will be derived from a cheaper version of the RC213V-S platform and engine, then that is one possible path.”

full article

[luvtoleanit]

Yes it's going to happen. But think of a RC45 and adjust for inflation (increased material costs, techno mahambo jahambo electronics and sensors up the arse, etc). You'll be looking at, at the least, a $40,000 or $50,000 bike that few can afford. I, like many, would love a 1000cc Honda V4 sportbike, priced appropriately. In the current market of new R1, Ninja, S1000RR, RSV4, 1299 Pan, that's mid to high teens in price depending on equipment such as calipers, wheels, and suspension. Not a chance in hell this new Honda will slot in with those prices. At $15,000 we'll get another CBR1000RR, which is just another inline 4, and just as boring, with a bunch of fancy electronic nannies. And why would I want a Fireblade when I can get a new R1, a motogp bike for the street, that has the exact same firing order as a VFR800, and on the bike, feels exactly like a V4, a 180RWHP V4?

I don't get Honda at all. Many of us screamed for a V5 when the 211V debuted. In a sportbike chassis, a Blackbird type chassis, we didn't care, just give it to us. No, sorry. Since 2007 we have screamed for a V4 sportbike from Honda, a la 800cc (RC212v), or a 1000cc version (RC213v), no sorry. Here is the Fireblade instead. Honda is the biggest motorcycle manu on the Earth, yet Yamaha, Aprilia, and Ducati can make V's, or virtual V's (Yamaha) for mortal prices. I don't get it. If Aprilia, a tiny mfr. compared to Honda, can make an affordable V4 sportbike then Honda has no excuse whatsoever.

[RC1237V]

Couldn't find a better place since 8th gen is most recent and this article seems to address what I've read many 8th gen owners would like to see-liter v4 engine with updates.

But a Fireblade and a VFR are not the same. I personally don't want a 1000cc V4 in a Fireblade (that would be cool). I want it in the VFR ergos with hard luggage available, and a proper pillion. A sport touring package, not a supersport. You can buy an Aprilia if you want a supersport. So, I wouldn't call the fireblade with a V4 the 9th gen. It is a different bike. But it would be good because maybe, just maybe the 9th gen would be the 1000cc version we all want. Then there would be a supersport version, and a sport touring version, and Honda will have finally nailed it.

You wrote: I want it in the VFR ergos with hard luggage available, and a proper pillion. A sport touring package, not a supersport.

Didn't you just buy something like that from Crazybrother?

I bought the 1200 because I could not wait any longer for Honda to make what I wanted. It is a fantastic bike, but after feeling the weight of the swingarm without the shock holding it up, I realized it could never be a repli-racer without some incredible amount of re-engineering. It "IS" an updated VFR - too bad the price, timing, and polarizing looks killed it. No, it doesn't have the gear drive, and doesn't have the old VFR exhaust note, but it really does do everything well. Yes, it needs mods to be a great bike to people who want more sport, or more touring, but no bike does it all.

If Honda ever does make the RVF1000V4, then yes, I would want one. But if it costs $5K more than the Aprilia, it is just another Kawi H2 rich boy toy and sales will not be there - also it will be out of my price range.

I don't know what Honda's sales/marketing strategy is, but they just seem to be making bean-counter bikes lately - they are always a step behind in features or power, or options or everything. Yamaha, BMW, KTM, and Aprilia must be having "Free Beer Friday's" at work, because they have been producing some very nice products in the last few years. Honda seems to be like Ford was a decade ago, just making products that they know will sell X-number of units because it's a Honda and their market share in that niche pretty much dictates some success.

C'mon Honda, get it back in gear and pin the throttle!

[BiKenG]

The R1 is not a MotGP bike on the road. Far from it. May have the same firing order, but that doesn't make it a MotoGP bike. That would cost a lot more. Honda's RCV IS a MotoGP bike on the road, at a cost of course. That stuff isn't cheap. Those are the same forks as used in MotoGP and cost more than an entire R1.

Looks like the 'Blade will continue at its current price point and there'll be a V4 rather like the RC45 at an elevated price and intended to be adapted for race use and with a price that falls within the rules for e.g. WSB. No doubt it will be a great bike, but surely everyone here is more interested in VFR type ergos than highly specialise race track weapons.

My wish was that Honda produce a V5 and still is. I think that would tick all the boxes, except for racing as it's no longer eligible. The VFR1200 should be a 1500 V5 (do the maths). They even designed the engine to mimic a V5. I think they really missed a trick there. No-one would bitch about it like they currently do. I'll bet everyone here would sell their soul to the devil for a V5.

Shaft drive? I love the convenience, but yes, it is REALLY heavy. However as I said, can't be all bad if it can get around a short handling circuit 13 secs a lap faster than an RC30.

[windyrun]

I think a move that makes sense for honda is to just re-engineer the 8th gen with the 7th gen motor. I wouldn't be hard for engineers at honda to do and there would be no massive new bike startup development costs. And all would be happy.

P.S. The 1200 v4 is physically smaller than the 800cc v4 so could fit in the 8th gen. All that is needed is to mount the motor and fit a chain instead of the shaft.

[luvtoleanit]

The R1 is not a MotGP bike on the road. Far from it. May have the same firing order, but that doesn't make it a MotoGP bike. That would cost a lot more. Honda's RCV IS a MotoGP bike on the road, at a cost of course. That stuff isn't cheap. Those are the same forks as used in MotoGP and cost more than an entire R1.

I didn't say it was a MotoGP bike. It doesn't have pneumatic valves either but it is definitely a MotoGP bike for the road. All that means is a sellable production version. Go ride one. It's a rocket. Has the handling to go with it, and the electronics. The bodywork, engine, and electronics all derived from the M1.

Journos say the same so it isn't just me. I'd venture a guess that lap times between it and Honda's $180,000.00 wonder bike wouldn't be much different but the Yamaha is affordable. I'd buy one but it's a rack and I have the previous Xplane already.

Either way Honda could learn something from Yamaha, and even Aprilia.

Oh yeah, we'll never see the V5. That ship has sailed and we weren't offered a ticket.

[GearWhyne]

Sod the race replicas. Race the Vees and make the homologation and hand-made bikes by all means, but make the road bikes most people actually want, and bring the V4 layout and all its benefits to a wider market, instead of just the buyers that are already on one and often feel no great need to upgrade because the ones we have last so well, work so well, and often want the mythical 1000 version, as would many non VFR-curious rider that don't feel much compelled to look at either the current 800 or 1200.

360 degree crank, 90 degree Vee angle, dual shorter pipes (one each side), a grunt-everywhere 130-150hp at the wheel across naked, half-faired and full-faired models. No heavier than the current model, at the most, if not lighter in the case of half-faired and naked versions. Ditch the single swingarm to save weight/cost, because almost no one else cares, or keep it on the a premium model.

[BiKenG]

The trouble is, everyone thinks they know what is the perfect bike that everyone would want - but it's a different bike to that which everyone else believes is their perfect bike. Makes it kinda hard for the manufacturers. They can only please some of the people some of the time.

I have also realised that there is no such perfect bike for me. At different times, in different places in different moods I want a different bike. On a nice hot sunny day you can't beat a bit of relaxed dawdling about on a cruiser, but in the middle of the Alps with the Grimsel Pass in front of me, that's the last bike I want to be on. So much as I'd LOVE a naked V5 sports bike, it would not be the only bike I'd want.

Out of all the demands for different bikes, a manufacturer has to choose which would make the most money and that will depend on popularity and profitability and if that doesn't fit with what you want. Tough. You either have to put up with what you're offered, or modify it to suit what you do want. At least, that's what we used to be able to do, but sadly it's becoming more and more difficult. Through legislation and design we are being denied our right to individuality and ultimate choice in what we ride.

An RVF1000 probably wouldn't be worth considering for a naked conversion project. Undoubtedly too complicated and I can get all that that might offer with my other bikes. But a V5, ah, now that WOULD be worth the effort. But as luvtoleanit put it so well:-

"That ship has sailed and we weren't offered a ticket."

[fink]

A bike magazine over in Britan did a test several years involving and R6 (That's what I think it was but it was a Yamaha) two bikes, identical. Or so everyone thought.

They got a group of road riders together, normal folks and let them have a play on each bike for a time then asked them several questions about what they thought about them. Prior to this they had also asked them questions about what they wanted in terms of performance from a bike . Most suggested that they wanted top end power.

For the test one bike was kept std the other had a new set of cams which offered lower power but much better midrange torque.

Guess which one most folk preferred? The better midrange instead over the top end, despite saying they wanted top end.

[BiKenG]

A bike magazine over in Britan did a test several years involving and R6 (That's what I think it was but it was a Yamaha) two bikes, identical. Or so everyone thought.

They got a group of road riders together, normal folks and let them have a play on each bike for a time then asked them several questions about what they thought about them. Prior to this they had also asked them questions about what they wanted in terms of performance from a bike . Most suggested that they wanted top end power.

For the test one bike was kept std the other had a new set of cams which offered lower power but much better midrange torque.

Guess which one most folk preferred? The better midrange instead over the top end, despite saying they wanted top end.

I remember that. Yes, the other problem I forgot to mention, most riders don't actually know what they want.

[marriedman]

Ditch the single swingarm to save weight/cost, because almost no one else cares, or keep it on the a premium model.

You shut your blasphemous mouth!

[GearWhyne]

Ditch the single swingarm to save weight/cost, because almost no one else cares, or keep it on the a premium model.

You shut your blasphemous mouth!

Jehovah...

[Baileyrock]

Hey I have seen one in person and they are awesome! Oh wait, that was an RSV-4.

[BiKenG]

The Tuono V4R is a great bike with 2 problems. Seat is without doubt the closest approximation of a plank I've ever had occasion to sit on. Apart from a real plank of course. The other problem is the utterly appalling fuel consumption as I've mentioned before. I also have more than a sneaking suspicion that the naked VFR800 I am currently planning will do everything the Tuono would be able to do on British roads. And of course Aprilias don't have the unburstable reputation of the VFR.