DownAndOutNYC Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Abit off topic, but still confined to the NE. The NJ Supreme Court recently voted that Police can search a vehicle without a warrant, so long as they have probable cause. And the one who decides if they have probably cause is the officer themselves. My question on this matter; will this change any of your (2 or 4 wheeled) riding/eating/site-seeing destinations/routes in New Jersey going here on forward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Mohawk Posted September 28, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted September 28, 2015 UK Law, was modified like this a few years ago, but the press & the populace are unaware, as are many Police forces. In the test case a man was wanted in connection with a knife crime & his car was illegally searched. To avoid a loss a judge ruled that his car was a public place, which made the search legal, even though this presedent was only set after the search ! This sets precedence in UK Law (England & Wales), so is a defacto standard until overturned by a higher court which has not happened, yet. This also accidentally makes it illegal to smoke in a vehicle, as under UK law it is illegal to smoke in an enclosed public space, which shows how crap our government legal eagles are as they just introduced another law that makes it illegal to smoke in a vehicle with children in it ! That said in answer to your question, unless you are carrying illegal substances or contraband why would you change your routes or riding habits ? Well that's all good provided the police are honest, but much evidence suggests they are no better as a group than the average human, so I never trust them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspanyol Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Probable cause or reasonable suspicion has always been enough as far as I believed... What's changed? Maybe I'm mistaken. They couldn't search your car on the roadside before? But they could search your anal cavity with a nice white latex glove at airports? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer The mailman Posted September 28, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted September 28, 2015 Probable Cause is all they need ANYWHERE! I will also step out in favor of Law Enforcement Officers and say that for the most part, if they have you off on the side of the road, you've already done something to draw attention to yourself and how you act once they have you will determine just how much they want to dig into your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer zupatun Posted September 28, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted September 28, 2015 Abit off topic, but still confined to the NE. The NJ Supreme Court recently voted that Police can search a vehicle without a warrant, so long as they have probable cause. And the one who decides if they have probably cause is the officer themselves. My question on this matter; will this change any of your (2 or 4 wheeled) riding/eating/site-seeing destinations/routes in New Jersey going here on forward? This already was the law of the land..but NJ is a little behind the times...understandable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer tbzep Posted September 28, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted September 28, 2015 When I crossed the border in 2006 to ride with my Canadian friends, the Canadian border guards searched my stuff. I half expected it, but I didn't expect them to lay my new hard cases on the ground and slide them around, scratching the piss out of them. They left everything unpacked and strewn around. They searched me and a Laotian van in the nearly two hours they kept me there while thousands crossed without more than a nod. It probably took the Laotian family another two hours to repack their van. FWIW, when I came back to the States, I was only stopped long enough for them to ask if I enjoyed my trip. So to answer why it would bother me to be searched if I had no contraband....I don't want my stuff strewn all over the side of the road and left for me to pack up again and I don't want my brand new hard bags turned into damaged goods. In other news, probable cause is enough to search anything without a warrant, not just a car. Even if they don't have probable cause, a well trained dog can be used to give them their probable cause and they don't have to ask permission for him to sniff around. Don't get pulled over after attending Bonnaroo. The second hand smoke that wafted by your bike or car is probably enough for the dog to hit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L8Apex Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 I've been to Canada almost every year in the last 50 of them, Only once when I was in a mood and got a little short with the "kid" on the Canadian side did I ever have my vehicle rifled through, It was an obvious "we're gonna teach you who has the power" moment which I haven't had to repeat since. I've had a MUCH harder time coming back into the states through Detroit or Buffalo. God forbid you forgot to pay some GST on the stuff you bought up there... Something that I don't like, is I understand some states, I think MI is one, that will ask you for your smart phone and bulk scan it on the spot, to do what with, or end up who knows where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted September 28, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted September 28, 2015 Not good .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer tbzep Posted September 28, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted September 28, 2015 I've been to Canada almost every year in the last 50 of them, Only once when I was in a mood and got a little short with the "kid" on the Canadian side did I ever have my vehicle rifled through, It was an obvious "we're gonna teach you who has the power" moment which I haven't had to repeat since. I've had a MUCH harder time coming back into the states through Detroit or Buffalo. God forbid you forgot to pay some GST on the stuff you bought up there... Something that I don't like, is I understand some states, I think MI is one, that will ask you for your smart phone and bulk scan it on the spot, to do what with, or end up who knows where. I wasn't short with them when they searched. It was the second time I'd been to Canada and I was very polite. Their questions were to the point and within reason, so I answered politely and accurately. The first time I crossed was at Niagra Falls in 2001 for an hour or two. I was a little short with them that time when they asked a bunch of questions including where I was from, if I had any guns on me, and then if I even owned any guns, which was none of their business after telling them I didn't have any with me. To the question of owning guns I said, "Yeah...I said I'm from Tennessee, didn't I?" They still let me through without a search. The molestation of my bike took place at the Ambassador Bridge at Detroit/Windsor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L8Apex Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Ambassador Bridge is where my incident happened too, It's almost always a hassle crossing there anyways due to constant road construction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmythecop Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Probable cause is defined as a set of facts or circumstances that would lead a reasonable, prudent and cautious officer to believe a crime has been commited or is about to be commited or contriband or evidence is in a certain location. Reasonable suspicion is totally different and applies to stops of persons as defined in Terry Vs. Ohio. There is also a much smaller expectation of privacy when you exercise the privilege of operating a motor vehicle on public space. Oh, and monkeys. Monkeys are groovy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted September 28, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted September 28, 2015 ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rectaltronics Posted September 28, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted September 28, 2015 Probable Cause is all they need ANYWHERE! I will also step out in favor of Law Enforcement Officers and say that for the most part, if they have you off on the side of the road, you've already done something to draw attention to yourself and how you act once they have you will determine just how much they want to dig into your life. Unless you're in a state ({cough}NY!) where motorcycle -only checkpoints are employed, in which case you can be stopped merely for having the temerity to pilot a vehicle with less than four wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Gregg Posted September 28, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted September 28, 2015 This isn't really all that different than what was in place before. Probable Cause was always needed for the search warrant. Probable Cause is still needed. In 2009, the NJ Supreme Court upheld that some Warrant less search were OK. The test needed to search without a warrant was probable cause and reason to be believe evidence would disappear if not searched immediately. This was MORE protection than needed at the federal level. The more recent decision removes the reason to believe evidence would disappear. We are now at federal, and many other states, level. In reality, it doesn't change much. For the record, as a NJ resident, I disagree with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Cogswell Posted September 29, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted September 29, 2015 Border crossings (ports of entry) and TSA checkpoints can impose on persons "routine searches" by Border Protection and Customs authorities that may not follow the Constitutional protections most citizens assume are in play elsewhere. Furthermore, in 1953 regulations were adopted by the Department of Justice that permit Customs and Border Patrol agents to operate inside the US within "100 miles of any external US boundary." We often know these today as the checkpoints that are set up on mainly secondary roads in the southwestern US. A number of states lie either entirely or nearly so within that 100 miles. Youtube is chock full of videos documenting these encounters. Anytime I am at a border crossing or TSA line, I simply presume that my 4th Amendment civil rights have been suspended, and figure that I can expedite my time there by being as respectful, polite and cooperative as possible. More reading about the 100 mile zone here:https://www.aclu.org/constitution-100-mile-border-zone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFR4Lee Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Probable cause. I smell weed! Had my car searched coming back from Mexico once. The note the first guy put an the windshield days "nervous". Overfilled bladders after a long wait would have been more accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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