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2002 With Charging Issues - How High Is Too High?


mk2davis

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Ricks Stator and RR on my 07 for 40,000 miles now. I have a solid 14.3 at idle and 14.5 on road. Digital meter mounted on my dash and I watch it like a hawk.

This is my numbers also, although idle can be down somewhat.
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After riding around for 45 minutes yesterday, mostly freeway . . . 13.3 idle, 13.7 at 5k low beams, 13.4 at 5k high beans. Requesting RMA.

How is your wiring? I have had quite a few riders report that the VFRness brought the numbers up. Is the Stator still outputting evenly (and over 60VAC at 5K)?

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My wiring looks good. My connectors look good, and I am not getting any change the longer I ride. I would a assume that a symptom of bad wiring could be a decline in voltage as questionable areas become more so. While a VFRness is on my list, I am looking forward to getting a Shindegen and being done with it. My first replacement RR was verified bad by the seller. The second was a Rick's, and my voltage was very similar to PorradaVFR's. My experience with Ricks has been hit and miss in the past.

So I have the Shindegen on the way, and shortly thereafter, the VFRness.

Stator tests:

Ohms between pins: 0.2-0.3 on all three

Ohms to ground: no continuity

VAC at idle: 25ishV between all three

VAC at 5k: 80-90V between all three

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My wiring looks good. My connectors look good, and I am not getting any change the longer I ride. I would a assume that a symptom of bad wiring could be a decline in voltage as questionable areas become more so. While a VFRness is on my list, I am looking forward to getting a Shindegen and being done with it. My first replacement RR was verified bad by the seller. The second was a Rick's, and my voltage was very similar to PorradaVFR's. My experience with Ricks has been hit and miss in the past.

So I have the Shindegen on the way, and shortly thereafter, the VFRness.

Stator tests:

Ohms between pins: 0.2-0.3 on all three

Ohms to ground: no continuity

VAC at idle: 25ishV between all three

VAC at 5k: 80-90V between all three

I have only made 1 VFRness for use with the Shindegen R/R....just shipped it out today to the UK, so no feedback on it yet.

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Just a note....

I found out recently that my on-board volt meter, which is connected to the (former) tag light circuit (took the DOT tag light assembly off the bike and fabricated a lens at the bottom of the tail/bake light fixture) reads almost a volt less than what I get directly from the battery posts with my RMS meter all through the rev range. I always thought for some years that my charging system output was on the weak side but was glad to find out that extra volt in the system....... So always take voltage readings direct from the battery if diagnosing charging problems.

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Yeah that happens, you cant test the voltage from a circuit that already has a load on it and expect to get an accurate result. I have said that on a few threads.

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Installed the shindegen rr today. At idle 13.3v, but at 5k only 13.5-6v. A rock steady voltage reading, but obviously a little low. Custom vfrness ordered. My volt meter is reading within .1v of readings at the battery.

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Have you verified that your volt meter is reading acurately? I just discovered mine was high by 1.5v. I replaced my R/R for no reason. I didn't have an overcharge issue.

I initially thought my meter might be off and compared it to another with the same results. Brought the meter in to work and checked it on a 25vac power supply against a calibrated meter and found that both of mine were off. Checked my bike with the good meter and everything is good.

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If you got the VFRness with an integrated switched relay/fuse block, attach the meter to a switched output of the fuse block. The voltage should be very close to that of the battery in reference to chassis ground. This will also stop the meter from being a continuous drain on the battery (like the tag light offers). My volt meter on the bike is within .05V of multiple multimeters that I've used to check the battery with this configuration.

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I wouldn't suggest a Ricks stator for a 2002 however as I don't know that it is compatible with the recalled rotor they used for that year.

The 21-120 Rick's stator seems to work fine on a 2002 with the recall completed (just did mine this past June). My 2002 puts out 14.3-14.4 at idle with the VFRNess after changing it out along with the 10-126H-1 RR from your site.

Is there anything in particular I should be concerned about or look for?

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Let me recap. Long story short, with stock everything but a shindegen 20 rr, I was getting 13.4 at idle, 13.7 at 5k unloaded, 13.4 with brights. Less that idle, but it was stay and it worked. I guess.

Enter the VFRness. Tightwad specialty built a 6th gen harness with the proper Shindegen connectors. 14.1 at idle now, 14.2 at 5k brights on and off.

I hesitate to save problem solved, but ... Issue remedied, for now at least.

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Let me recap. Long story short, with stock everything but a shindegen 20 rr, I was getting 13.4 at idle, 13.7 at 5k unloaded, 13.4 with brights. Less that idle, but it was stay and it worked. I guess.

Enter the VFRness. Tightwad specialty built a 6th gen harness with the proper Shindegen connectors. 14.1 at idle now, 14.2 at 5k brights on and off.

I hesitate to save problem solved, but ... Issue remedied, for now at least.

So with the volts in the 13s, you had the FH020AA using the stock harness and not wired direct to the battery like is recommended?

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Let me recap. Long story short, with stock everything but a shindegen 20 rr, I was getting 13.4 at idle, 13.7 at 5k unloaded, 13.4 with brights. Less that idle, but it was stay and it worked. I guess.

Enter the VFRness. Tightwad specialty built a 6th gen harness with the proper Shindegen connectors. 14.1 at idle now, 14.2 at 5k brights on and off.

I hesitate to save problem solved, but ... Issue remedied, for now at least.

So with the volts in the 13s, you had the FH020AA using the stock harness and not wired direct to the battery like is recommended?

Sounds like the fh020 wasnt wired to the battery

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Let me recap. Long story short, with stock everything but a shindegen 20 rr, I was getting 13.4 at idle, 13.7 at 5k unloaded, 13.4 with brights. Less that idle, but it was stay and it worked. I guess.

Enter the VFRness. Tightwad specialty built a 6th gen harness with the proper Shindegen connectors. 14.1 at idle now, 14.2 at 5k brights on and off.

I hesitate to save problem solved, but ... Issue remedied, for now at least.

So with the volts in the 13s, you had the FH020AA using the stock harness and not wired direct to the battery like is recommended?

Sounds like the fh020 wasnt wired to the battery

Exactly

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  • 4 months later...

Sorry to resurrect this thread, but similar to my situation so seemed appropriate...

I've an 02 and wondering if the voltage I'm getting now is normal, after a string of electrical problems. In summary:

  • Got a Fuzeblock fitted, posi-tapped into the rear break light to detect switched. Have Oxford grips, Garmin Satnav, USB charger all hooked up to only work with ignition on
  • Also replaced stock headlight bulbs with Phillips Xtreme Vision, I've been told they can sometimes be sometimes too bright when behind people, but they're stock 55w
  • Bought a Shorai Lithium battery and replaced stock R/R at the same time with a FH020AA from Roadster (thought I'd be clever and do preventative maintenance as I didn't want the R/R to go and take the new battery with it)
  • Crimped the R/R with bullets to the Stator and wired direct to the battery with an in line 30A fuse
  • I run out of power mid ride one day, to find the connection from Stator to R/R had melted (I suspect I may have messed up the crimp...). Have to repeatedly swap batteries with a buddy to limp home
  • I took a look at the Stator and it looked/smelled cooked, replaced it with an Electrex from local bike shop (said they'd never had problems with them), this time soldered it
  • Had a load test on the battery, garage said they weren't familiar with Lithiums, but from what they could tell it checked out ok
  • Replaced R/R with another Roadster FH020AA kit because of the below, although I'm not sure there was anything wrong with the first one... Did resistance checks before installing and read fine.
  • Fitted a cheap voltmeter, 3 wires so powered from Fuze block when switched, read wire on battery +. It's only .0, but readings seem consistent with my multimeter
  • Put a dab of Oxgard on the R/R spades. Also did the same around the starter motor connectors, and cleaned with wire wool/electrical contact cleaner (was some mild corrosion)

I'm getting 14.1-14.2v @ 5-6k revs on the road, with only stock load + voltmeter. high beams and it drops to 14.1, with the odd 14.0 blip.

I get the same readings if I have the grips on full, with Highs off

If I put Mains and Highs both on, the voltage just starts to plummet... it hit 13.4 before I got paranoid of breaking down again and turned off the grips.

Satnav and highs OR grips seemed to be hovering around 14 @ 5k. I put all 3 on and again got paranoid when it started to plummet!

Haven't tried the USB Charger yet

I'd tested voltage coming straight out of R/R (disconnected from battery) and when idle and it was 15.1v. I don't have the readings to hand, but the new Stator was giving AC results comparable to what's stated on other threads/youtube vids I've found, also no shorts to ground.

I'm not sure whether I'm trying to run too much tech, or if the bike isn't generating enough volts. From some of the previous posts it sounds like perhaps the latter? If it is the latter, I'm at a loss as there's nothing else in the Stator > R/R > Battery circuit, unless the multiple discharges damaged the battery, but doubt this would be the only symptom if the battery were bad?

Any thoughts please folks?

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14.2 with low beams and 14.0v with the high beams on is great. The voltages are fine, stop worrying, you are not going to break down at 13.4 volts. Just keep an eye on your voltage and be realistic about your load. Of course running high beams and heated grips at the same time will bring your voltage down, but as long as you stay above 13 volts you are fine. When you start dipping into the 12s you are slowly draining your battery. The bike will run into the 11s for a while, though it is not advised.


Also, disconnecting the rr from the battery while the bike is running, doesn't sound like the best idea.... I wouldn't do that.

p.s the stator to rr connection should be soldered, not crimped, that is where you went wrong. Solder the connection.

pps I am not sure if the lithium battery is your best choice for what you are trying to do here. Lithium batteries do have awesome shelf life, but the super small, light weight ones typically don't have a whole lot of reserve and they hate the cold. I feel like the yuasa 14 might be your best bet here, especially when you are dealing with essentially cold reserve capacity.

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Thanks for the quick response CR. Sounds reassuring!

Although, I'm not sure if it only drops to 13.4 with grips and high beams. After having visions of breaking down again I didn't want to risk seeing how low it would go as I was out on my own. It's still minus (Celsius) temperatures over these parts and I've not had chance to get out again, but I'll see how low it does drop when I get out again. Useful to know 13 is the breakpoint, hopefully it won't go lower than that!

Also edited original post with a bit more detail, I assumed the crimp was what caused the melt first time round, so did solder the second time.

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pps I am not sure if the lithium battery is your best choice for what you are trying to do here. Lithium batteries do have awesome shelf life, but the super small, light weight ones typically don't have a whole lot of reserve and they hate the cold. I feel like the yuasa 14 might be your best bet here, especially when you are dealing with essentially cold reserve capacity.

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You are correct in that the voltage is your indicator of the system's health but it is current that runs devices. The voltage and current across each device result in a power use labelled in watts. You can add up the wattage of accessories and you will know in advance what you can run at any given time.

See your owner's manual. It lists the charging system total output, for example my 5th gen shows something like .450 kW or 450 watts. It also shows power use by the various bike systems. An additional device that may not be on your radar is the cooling fans, which will only be on when hot.

Next see this thread below. There is a post a little bit down by CSFS which illustrates the calculations. This shows how you should think of managing accessories.

When the bike plus your devices exceed the available power, like CR implied, that will bring the system voltage down too low.

The only variable is that your charging system components vary from stock, so your total output may differ slightly from the manual.

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pps I am not sure if the lithium battery is your best choice for what you are trying to do here. Lithium batteries do have awesome shelf life, but the super small, light weight ones typically don't have a whole lot of reserve and they hate the cold. I feel like the yuasa 14 might be your best bet here, especially when you are dealing with essentially cold reserve capacity.

The reason I got a Lithium at the time, was because living in an apartment with no plug sockets in the basement to run a battery tender from, with the bike only getting ridden once or twice a month I was worried about discharge. My circumstances have since changed and I can keep it on trickle charge. However, I do have the Shorai LFX19A4-BS12 12V 19Ah Lithium Battery, which was the beefier version of the two models on offer, but back to lead-acid if it goes.

@Knight - You may have guessed from my original post I'm not too clued up on electrics, but if the charging system is working as expected I was going to take a look and try to add up the watts of the accessories. Very useful post, thank you. I'll take a look at the Haynes tomorrow and do the calculations myself

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a.) Yuasa YTX12-BS Motorcycle Battery 12V 10Ah 180CCA AGM

b.) Yuasa YTX14-BS 14Ah 200 CCA maintenance-free powersports battery

c.) Shorai LFX Lithium Iron Xtreme-Rate Battery LFX19A4-BS12

  • MSRP: $199.95
  • Condition: New
  • Brand: Shorai
  • Size Description: 2.31 LBS.
  • Photo: Actual
  • C.C.A: 285
  • Amp-Hr: 19
  • Manufacturer Part Number: LFX19A4-BS12
  • Acid: No
  • Volts: 12V

So a.) is the factory battery and b.) is the higher capacity option, but c.) is the battery that you have now, which looks to have much greater specs. You might be best off with the battery that you have now as it is rated at 19 amp/hours, which is what is most important in your application. The factory battery is only rated at 10 amp hours and the larger yuasa is rated at 14 amp hours.

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