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5Th Gen Engine In A 6Th Green


Lint

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I'm sure this has been covered, but I'm on a tablet and search sucks. I'd love to have gear driven cams, but I'm only curious, has this been done or are the mounts different?

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Extremely difficult. The mounts are different I believe. The Carvers are the experts here, they built what you are talking about with a Gen 6 frame/ Gen 5 engine.

Because I love the GDC so much, I wanted the same. But I didn't want all of the headache. So I built a "Gen 5.5" with the Gen 6 subframe. With the new subframe came a Gen 6 fuel tank and undertail exhausts. It still uses the Gen 5 main frame, which for the street is probably not all that noticeably inferior to the Gen 6. After installing Superhawk front forks/ DMR CBR 929 rear shock/ 6 piston calipers and de-linked I think the handling will be improved enough for me to be happy with the result.

The 5.5 is the easier way to go IMHO.

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Painter Bob (member here) also did it with a RWB (coincidentally) and showed up to TXMac this year on it. Seems like it went easily enough. Still some issues with the MiniCarver build, but it's not certain it's related to the swap mod.

Don't see Bob posting much, but maybe a PM or maybe he lurks and will see this?

I'm not sure it's really as difficult as it seems. The biggest issue is getting the plugs sorted, since the 6G uses coil on plug and 5G uses remote coils. I think there were some reasonably simple solutions found, but you'd have to hear it from the ones that did it. (Cause I don't know!)

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  • 2 weeks later...
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The first to do this was a guy named Mark on the UK-based HondaVFRClub forum. He did a build thread on it.

Ciao,

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Yep, I did the 5th gen engine swap in my 07 RWB last winter. I was bored! lol! It was a straight forward eng swap, all bolt-in. Pretty much the same as if just replacing the vtech engine. Used a 98 engine i found on ebay, which turned out to be about 30 miles away. So i went there and made a cash deal at $250. Swapped over all the vtech throttle bodies, sensors, coils, clutch slave, ect. Found older GSXR coils on ebay just to use the grommets from them, vtech coils stick out above the head about an inch. Had to replace the plug on the end of stator wires to match the R/R. Installed a Vfrness while i was at it. I used a Rabid Bike Racing for tuning, just let it self tune itself. Wouldnt mind having it tuned on a dyno one of these days. Runs real good! I put about 10k trouble free miles on it so far, the bike currently has 61k mile. I'm very happy with the outcome and the whine!

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Yep, I did the 5th gen engine swap in my 07 RWB last winter. I was bored! lol! It was a straight forward eng swap, all bolt-in. Pretty much the same as if just replacing the vtech engine. Used a 98 engine i found on ebay, which turned out to be about 30 miles away. So i went there and made a cash deal at $250. Swapped over all the vtech throttle bodies, sensors, coils, clutch slave, ect. Found older GSXR coils on ebay just to use the grommets from them, vtech coils stick out above the head about an inch. Had to replace the plug on the end of stator wires to match the R/R. Installed a Vfrness while i was at it. I used a Rabid Bike Racing for tuning, just let it self tune itself. Wouldnt mind having it tuned on a dyno one of these days. Runs real good! I put about 10k trouble free miles on it so far, the bike currently has 61k mile. I'm very happy with the outcome and the whine!

So in using the GXSR grommets on the VTEC coil packs, how did you secure them to the 5th gen valve covers? Which GXSR coils did you get?

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Yep, I did the 5th gen engine swap in my 07 RWB last winter. I was bored! lol! It was a straight forward eng swap, all bolt-in. Pretty much the same as if just replacing the vtech engine. Used a 98 engine i found on ebay, which turned out to be about 30 miles away. So i went there and made a cash deal at $250. Swapped over all the vtech throttle bodies, sensors, coils, clutch slave, ect. Found older GSXR coils on ebay just to use the grommets from them, vtech coils stick out above the head about an inch. Had to replace the plug on the end of stator wires to match the R/R. Installed a Vfrness while i was at it. I used a Rabid Bike Racing for tuning, just let it self tune itself. Wouldnt mind having it tuned on a dyno one of these days. Runs real good! I put about 10k trouble free miles on it so far, the bike currently has 61k mile. I'm very happy with the outcome and the whine!

So in using the GXSR grommets on the VTEC coil packs, how did you secure them to the 5th gen valve covers? Which GXSR coils did you get?

The coils were from an 04 GSXR600 that I paid about $12 for on Ebay. I just pulled the grommets off them, stuck them into the holes in the head then carefully wiggled the vtech coils into the grommet that was already in the head. They hold really tight, they are not bolted down. Had to cut the mounting part off one of the coils for clearance. I check them once in a while, heaven't had a problem with them coming loose in 10k miles.

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I did a COP swap on my 5th gen, maybe an hour to do.

2008 cbr 1000 coils and sub harness, mother board stand offs to make the plugs longer, and very easy.

the cbr wires were the same colour as the vfr ones, just added spade connectors to the cbr harness so i could just plug em in.

with new coils and new plugs, started easy, and settled to a constant idle really quickly. Haven't actually ridden with them yet.

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Keef, the 6th gen has CoP as standard, but they are 3 wire with like a block on top that sticks up !

Cogs well, you don,t need to attach them to the cam cover, hence the grommet to fit them snugly in the plug tunnel.

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When I did my 5th Gen to 6th Gen conversion I used the 6th Gen COP unit and I did screw them down to the cam covers.

You can see what I did in this post.

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/75067-anyone-ever-reboredoverbored-a-56th-gen/page-14#entry967228

You also do need to keep the solenoid from the VTec valve connected to the loom as the impedance or something similar is needed by the CPU

Apart from that the only other small issue is that the standard bottom radiator mounts that bolt to the heads, are positioned a little lower on the Gen 5 engine.

No real problem but you do need to tweak them a little.

Phil

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ISTR that if you use an ABS 6th Gen, there is some re-working of crankcases etc to be done which doesn't need dong if the 6th Gen is non-ABS.

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If you are using the 6th Gen ECU and loom you have to go with the 6th Gen 3 wire COPs, unless you can find another more suitable device. I looked but had no luck.

Pretty much every other bike uses 2 wire COPs and there would need to be quite a bit of work needed to make them work on a 3 wire system.

The 3 wire system has a - feed, a + feed (both constant when the ignition is on) and an exciter feed from the ECU that I believe goes high only for short periods of time.

I spoke to an electronics engineer about building devices to drive these but decided that the work and introducing another point of failure was not what I wanted.

Hence I stayed with the 6th Gen units.

Phil

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I'll be interested to see if someone does a 5th gen to 8th gen engine swap. It shouldn't be much different than going 5th to 6th . . .

That would really be telling Honda something . . . owners swapping 15 year old engines in to their new bikes.

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