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New Vfr800's Not Selling Very Well


cavman69

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Maybe most buyers are waiting for a 1000cc v4?

Maybe because it isn't new and different enough from the old VTEC 800?

Same engine and frame from 13 years ago.

And I'm still waiting for them to make an all-new geardrive 1000, 505 Lbs wet weight, 140 HP

Ain't gonna happen, so that's why I still have my old bike........

While it's an I4, I feel Suzuki has come out with what Honda could have/should have. The new GSX-S 1000F. http://www.suzukicycles.com/Product%20Lines/Cycles/Products/GSX-S1000/2016/GSXS1000FA.aspx

Ride Report http://www.superbike.co.uk/bike-tests/suzuki-gsx-s1000f-first-ride/

A reply to my comment I received via Facebook about it: 'SuperBike magazine: It was much more focused than we expected it to be, Randy. If we'd have known, we'd have worn full leathers. It was great fun to ride, get a test ride and see for yourself.'

Suzuki listened to hundreds of GSX-R owners in coming up with this bike and it pretty much fits most of your idea above. I don't really feel that Honda listened to anyone when they came out with the 8th Gen. Don't get me wrong, I love the way it looks, but I love my 6th Gen and I can't see a reason to spend $13K on a bike that is a fancy version of what I've already got. I wouldn't mind trying the 8th Gen out after raising the forks 10mm like I have done and shimming the shock as I have on mine.

Honestly tho, it sounds like Suzuki may have the I4 version of what the 8th Gen could have been. Why Honda, why? A company that used to lead the pack in innovation has gone so conservative as to be boring. You're just to afraid to take risks, so you hand all the sales to your competitors. $184,000 underpowered bike vs Yamaha's $20K R1M that would leave it in the dust on a track, if they were both in absolutely stock form. Suzuki with the 1000F, Aprilia with the Tuono, need I go on? Even the CBR1K is outdated horribly, and that is supposed to be your superbike?

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On top of that the VFR pricing doesn't help. I think the 8th gen is likely a fantastic machine and would fit my needs and wants perfectly but unfortunately, it isn't much different than my 2002

Agree completely. I was stoked when the 8th gen was announced but floored at the $$. Its not that far off my 1997 in specs and it was asking BMW S1000 pricing.

1997 VFR750F: http://www.bikez.com/motorcycles/honda_vfr_750_f_1997.php

2014 VFR800F: http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/07/16/2014-honda-vfr800f-interceptor-sportbike-motorcycle-review-photos-specifications-performance-numbers/2/

I've mentioned this previously here and also in my '14 review. Peak HP and torque numbers between '97 and now are not all that different but if you look at the dyno curves between then and now you will find a lot more happening in the newer bikes' midrange RPMs and overall flatter curves. And better gas mileage as well, in spite of the additional emissions controls.

The BMW S1000 is a fine bike (EDIT: and an amazing value) that offers stunning power if that's what you want. And for those interested you can disable the ABS, I'm sure the TC works better and the true USD forks will win all kinds of bench racing accolades. When compared to a current VFR it requires a more aggressive rider posture, provides more meager {cough} "sporty" pillion accommodation, will require more work to install panniers, has 70 W less output available from its alternator, will have to stop an hour sooner for gas (and don't even think about feeding it less than premium), will require aftermarket heated grips, etc. Also don't forget to budget a track stand.

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Honda doesnt really seem like they're interested in reinventing the wheel, merely coasting on it.

The Africa Twin is a pretty neat entry but other than that, what have they really done in the last however many years of motorcycling? That's not a rhetorical question by the way. As a new motorcyclist im interested in hearing what more experienced, seasoned riders have to say about this.

Im not knocking them as i believe they've obviously had a pretty significant impact on two wheeled fun BUT where others are pushing the bar, Honda is merely resting their hands on it. The VFR is simply too expensive for what it is when you compare it to other bikes on paper. In practice, it is nigh perfect but most red blooded males want power and more of it. Its hard to justify a 13k price tag on a bike that only makes 100 BHP and weighs ALOT. If i was in the market for a bike right now, id try and snap up one of those leftover 14's as a price tag in the mid 8's seems BEYOND reasonable for the package that is the 8th gen VFR.

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On top of that the VFR pricing doesn't help. I think the 8th gen is likely a fantastic machine and would fit my needs and wants perfectly but unfortunately, it isn't much different than my 2002

Agree completely. I was stoked when the 8th gen was announced but floored at the $$. Its not that far off my 1997 in specs and it was asking BMW S1000 pricing.

1997 VFR750F: http://www.bikez.com/motorcycles/honda_vfr_750_f_1997.php

2014 VFR800F: http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/07/16/2014-honda-vfr800f-interceptor-sportbike-motorcycle-review-photos-specifications-performance-numbers/2/

I've mentioned this previously here and also in my '14 review. Peak HP and torque numbers between '97 and now are not all that different but if you look at the dyno curves between then and now you will find a lot more happening in the newer bikes' midrange RPMs and overall flatter curves. And better gas mileage as well, in spite of the additional emissions controls.

The BMW S1000 is a fine bike that offers stunning power if that's what you want. And for those interested you can disable the ABS, I'm sure the TC works better and the true USD forks will win all kinds of bench racing accolades. When compared to a current VFR it requires a more aggressive rider posture, provides more meager {cough} "sporty" pillion accommodation, will require more work to install panniers, has 70 W less output available from its alternator, will have to stop an hour sooner for gas (and don't even think about feeding it less than premium), will require aftermarket heated grips, etc. Also don't forget to budget a track stand.

Are you referring to the S1000RR or the S1000R? Both have BMW heated grips as an option. Also, I feel neither is a fair comparison to the 8th Gen. Maybe the K1300S if you go off of he basis of a fully faired ST bike. That there are very few, at this time, fully faired ST bikes that aren't ADVs, is one thing I like about the 8th Gen.

I have a sneaking suspicion that with the GSX-S1000F coming out, coupled with the 8th Gen and the K1300S, might we be seeing a slow return to other manufacturers making a comeback to the actual definition of the Sports Touring meaning? Yamaha of course still has their venerable FJ1300R, which I rode a little and kind of liked. Ducati had the ST4, Aprilia had the Futura, their version of the VFR. Triumph had the Sprint ST, then the GT, but that was the gateway drug to their gigantic Trophy SE, that others have laughingly called a Sports Touring bike. Right.

I hope that we as consumers can see the category returning to its roots. If so, then maybe Honda could be credited in helping that when they released the 8th Gen. I do hope however that if this does happen, they can beef it up, because if the 1000F is any indication, the ST category will be about less weight and more power. If Suzuki, the company that has truly fallen asleep, can offer 140+++ HP in a lighter bike, then the VFR will need more to stay relevant. It's possible and I am stymied as to why Honda went the route they did. They let BMW define the category while Honda fell asleep at the wheel and decided to be boring and hide in the corner and almost be too timid to make a statement. Apologetic even.

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The VFR is simply too expensive for what it is when you compare it to other bikes on paper. In practice, it is nigh perfect but most red blooded males want power and more of it. Its hard to justify a 13k price tag on a bike that only makes 100 BHP and weighs ALOT. If i was in the market for a bike right now, id try and snap up one of those leftover 14's as a price tag in the mid 8's seems BEYOND reasonable for the package that is the 8th gen VFR.

Well I guess I'm not a red blooded male.

Sorry, I've long outgrown any need to express the potential of my male sexuality through horsepower.

But I was happy to get a leftover 4th gen for $6800 out the door in early '99. :-)

The BMW S1000 is a fine bike that offers stunning power if that's what you want. And for those interested you can disable the ABS, I'm sure the TC works better and the true USD forks will win all kinds of bench racing accolades. When compared to a current VFR it requires a more aggressive rider posture, provides more meager {cough} "sporty" pillion accommodation, will require more work to install panniers, has 70 W less output available from its alternator, will have to stop an hour sooner for gas (and don't even think about feeding it less than premium), will require aftermarket heated grips, etc. Also don't forget to budget a track stand.

Are you referring to the S1000RR or the S1000R? Both have BMW heated grips as an option. Also, I feel neither is a fair comparison to the 8th Gen. Maybe the K1300S if you go off of he basis of a fully faired ST bike. That there are very few, at this time, fully faired ST bikes that aren't ADVs, is one thing I like about the 8th Gen.

I have a sneaking suspicion that with the GSX-S1000F coming out, coupled with the 8th Gen and the K1300S, might we be seeing a slow return to other manufacturers making a comeback to the actual definition of the Sports Touring meaning? Yamaha of course still has their venerable FJ1300R, which I rode a little and kind of liked. Ducati had the ST4, Aprilia had the Futura, their version of the VFR. Triumph had the Sprint ST, then the GT, but that was the gateway drug to their gigantic Trophy SE, that others have laughingly called a Sports Touring bike. Right.

I hope that we as consumers can see the category returning to its roots. If so, then maybe Honda could be credited in helping that when they released the 8th Gen. I do hope however that if this does happen, they can beef it up, because if the 1000F is any indication, the ST category will be about less weight and more power. If Suzuki, the company that has truly fallen asleep, can offer 140+++ HP in a lighter bike, then the VFR will need more to stay relevant. It's possible and I am stymied as to why Honda went the route they did. They let BMW define the category while Honda fell asleep at the wheel and decided to be boring and hide in the corner and almost be too timid to make a statement. Apologetic even.

Sorry, I couldn't tell about the availability of heated grips because BMW's web site was written by a 12 year old kid in Romania.

We had the VFR1200. But it was too much of a porker. But to be fair the FJ was no lightweight either.

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I really like the look of it but beneath the new body style is the same motor and similar everything else. Why not just buy a super clean 6th gen and pay half the cost of that one is the way my mind thinks.

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I traded my 2003 6th gen in on the 2014 deluxe, 11 years makes a big difference, similar, but not the same. No need to get a PCIII to iron out FI. Fit and finish much better. I enjoyed the 03 so much, I wanted a new bike that I could enjoy the pleasure of owning one for another 10 years.

About 2 weeks away from getting my 83 back on the road, it's been 15 year since I have ridden it!!

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I just test rode the FJR and BMW r1200RS. The FJR is a sporty touring bike, big and heavy. Great on the highway, but not a sports bike. The BMW was buzzy and not worth the money. Both bikes were faster, but not by much in the real world. I still think the VFR is the only sport bike you can tour on. As for price, who pays MSRP for a Honda? Plus when you option the BMW up it get expensive fast. Everything is optional. I'm thinking the VFR is still perfect, Fast enough, well made and the sound can't be beat. I've never been at full throttle at peak power thinking it need more. Yes, you have to work at it, but it is plenty fast for a sport tourer.

As for price, the VFR looks expensive. I think it is worth the money. It is a very well detailed bike. The BMW was 19,000 the way it was optioned, and didn't feel anywhere near as nice as the VFR.


The other thing is Honda doesn't understand the VFR buyer. We are not CBR buyers who roll in and buy one on an impulse. We fret over getting the bike that is right for us, and keep it and ride it longer, and put more miles on. I think that is where they went wrong with the 1200. I'm planning on buying in 6 months, and started looking now. I have to be certain I get the perfect bike if I'm going to drop 15K. Plus I'm trying to replace the best bike ever. = )

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Who pays retail indeed. Even when the 8th gen was only out a month or two I got a NYC dealer to get me my red Deluxe ordered/shipped, prepped, plated, gassed up to the filler cap (albeit with really, REALLY crap gas) and out the door with keyed panniers and hugger installed for a bit over 14k.

While I'm mentioning this, might as well say kudos to New York Honda Yamaha for giving me a great deal on my VFR, being more than willing to wheel 'n deal for accessories, handing out valuable coupons left and right, and soon after my purchase not only giving my nephew an unbeatable deal on a new CBR300R from their local warehouse but dropping the prepped bike off at his home in NJ for a price that was too stupidly low to pass up. And for only hitting me up for just $50-even instead of "shop time" for resetting my forks and tree after a young local bonehead in a Mercedes (who also happens to be a rider - haha) backed into the bike while making a Y-turn a few weeks ago.

This shop really represents everything that most NYC tri-state shops traditionally aren't. The sales folks don't treat MSRP as a baseline, their shop accepts appointments for while-you-wait service, and it's staffed by enthusiastic, competent, English-speaking wrenches most of whom go racing every chance they have. They remember your name, your bike, your job and your pals who do business there too. They're a few blocks from the subway and they have space to keep your helmet 'n gear safe if you need to drop off the bike and run off to work or whatever.

But aside of all that they suck.

:cheerleader::bliss::woohoo:

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Just saw a new 2014 near Milwaukee for $79xx at a dealership listed on CL. I can't believe how little these bikes are bringing in.

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The std models seem to be particularly hard to sell. I remember when the 8th Gen first came out and I saw the STD model (at $12.5K) I thought to myself: what was Honda thinking?? Its only available in the US also and seems to be the only model dealers near me stocked.


I also looked at the R1200RS and agree-buzzy and not very inspiring. The R1200R is even more -- not inspiring -- and buzzy. The VFR is definitely better sounding and more fun to ride.

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I'm in the throes of this topic right now. Feeling like I want to increase the safety envelope around me (ABS, TC) during my 70 mi r/t commute as I await the birth of my second child, my 6th gen ('02) rides great though feels dated without the electronic extras (again, just for safety, not for pure motorcycling joy). Having just changed the clutch and brake fluid as well as coolant, and fixed up some broken plastic rivets to cut down on rattle... the riding experience with Staintunes, Heli bars, NWS hugger, Penske rear and revalved fronts... it's dialed in and great.

Now feels like the window of opportunity though, with an implicit ok from the wifey (who can argue against safety?), before I have two kids to entertain on weekends. Took the FJ-09 for a ride, fun motor, but the riding position made me slouch and fit and finish was not up to VFR standard. Something about that insecty looking front as well.

Tomorrow I test an R1200RS. Kinda wish I didn't read all the negative stuff from other guys on here as it may have biased me, but the cost alone gives me great pause. That leaves a test ride on the new Interceptor, which is not easy to come by it seems. The reach on my '02, even with Heli bars, is a bit long so that's my biggest concern (I'm about 6'1", 33" inseam) with the new VFR. But everything else mentioned about Honda barely touching the engine, keeping the frame... makes it hard to get excited about that cash drop.

I'll be keeping an eye out for the seasonal price drops, though the season in Northern Cali never really stops. Fly-ride!

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Honda doesnt really seem like they're interested in reinventing the wheel, merely coasting on it.

The Africa Twin is a pretty neat entry but other than that, what have they really done in the last however many years of motorcycling? That's not a rhetorical question by the way. As a new motorcyclist im interested in hearing what more experienced, seasoned riders have to say about this.

Im not knocking them as i believe they've obviously had a pretty significant impact on two wheeled fun BUT where others are pushing the bar, Honda is merely resting their hands on it. The VFR is simply too expensive for what it is when you compare it to other bikes on paper. In practice, it is nigh perfect but most red blooded males want power and more of it. Its hard to justify a 13k price tag on a bike that only makes 100 BHP and weighs ALOT. If i was in the market for a bike right now, id try and snap up one of those leftover 14's as a price tag in the mid 8's seems BEYOND reasonable for the package that is the 8th gen VFR.

As a Honda apologist and VF/R loyalist from year 1 (1983 to be exact) I find it increasingly difficult to explain their direction the past decade. I keep waiting for the other shoe to fall and everyone to give a collective "Ahhhhh....now I get it."

Honda has taken a corporate approach that I believed they learned from their automotive competitors at GM and Ford. They now price a vehicle so that they can offer amazing discounts to influence monthly buying trends. If you are looking at a new Civic or Accord and cross shopping it against a new Mazda then you will be disappointed that Mazda cannot drop the price $6,000 on a Mazda 3 as Honda can on an Accord when in reality Honda have an additional $2,000 they could move if pushed. This is how they do their motorcycles now as well. A new VFR is released in 2014 with eye popping pricing (to some) for a rewarmed chassis and engine approaching 12 years of age. A few people pay list price or above and adopt the bikes within the first 4-8 months. Then the price drops $5,000-6,000 dollars and they start to move more. How does the guy or girl who purchased one within the first 6 months feel now that they owe more on their bike than a new one sells for? What type of future behavior does this instill in the masses who see it happen again and again?

An HRC executive who was in GP racing more than a decade ago would apparently stand up and in interviews tell it like it was...while his interpreter would change the intent of what he was saying to make it sound like corporate platitudes..."blah blah blah, We won a hard fought contest this weekend against difficult competitors who challenge us to the extremity daily...blah blah blah" At one race his Honda employee translator was suffering from travel difficulties and was not yet at the press conference so a volunteer from the audience was enlisted to interpret. That is when the fireworks began. The HRC boss said basically that even though Kawasaki had done well this weekend or Suzuki had won a race recently that Honda was still the leader. That from time to time another manufacturer might pass Honda on the track but these competitors lacked vision and when in a position of leading they would always have to stop and see what Honda would do next because it was truly Honda that set the course for the industry regardless of who may appear to be in front on the rare occasion that Honda was not dominating on the track as they always dominate in research, design, engineering and manufacturing...he was about at this point in the silent press conference with all of the normal GP circus writers diligently recording his words as translated when his Honda translator came into the room adn turned bright red and immediately started translating into the normal corporate jargon again.

But I fear that Honda as a whole have lost that spirit of leadership that Soichiro founded the company on. I see very few areas where they lead now and as many "innovations" are "developed" by the marketing group as the engineering department.

Both the 7th and 8th iteration of the VF/R models are great bikes. Not a great bike at the list price but I know that if the 2015 VFR800DLX had a list price of $8,800 or $9,750 with hard bags they would sell a helluva lot more. The VFR1200 that I spent 10 days on in Europe last fall is also a great bike. A great bike that needs to have hard bags included and the suspension done to approach a fair value at the list price. As they come standard without bags it should be approximately $10,000 plus $1,200 for the bags (all three).

On the subject of fit and finish Honda is still near the top of the heap but the details do detract. For example, he after-thought of a traction control switch on the VFR800 looks like it was placed there with a gob of glue by a grade schooler who got to the end of their science fair project and realized that for a bike that would be compared to competitors approaching $15k out the door that they needed to add a TC switch and some black box magic.

I am still a Honda apologist but it is increasingly unlikely that I will only own Hondas going forward and I can count on one hand the number of non-Honda bikes that I have owned over the past 40 years.

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I'm in the throes of this topic right now. Feeling like I want to increase the safety envelope around me (ABS, TC) during my 70 mi r/t commute as I await the birth of my second child, my 6th gen ('02) rides great though feels dated without the electronic extras (again, just for safety, not for pure motorcycling joy). Having just changed the clutch and brake fluid as well as coolant, and fixed up some broken plastic rivets to cut down on rattle... the riding experience with Staintunes, Heli bars, NWS hugger, Penske rear and revalved fronts... it's dialed in and great.

Now feels like the window of opportunity though, with an implicit ok from the wifey (who can argue against safety?), before I have two kids to entertain on weekends. Took the FJ-09 for a ride, fun motor, but the riding position made me slouch and fit and finish was not up to VFR standard. Something about that insecty looking front as well.

Tomorrow I test an R1200RS. Kinda wish I didn't read all the negative stuff from other guys on here as it may have biased me, but the cost alone gives me great pause. That leaves a test ride on the new Interceptor, which is not easy to come by it seems. The reach on my '02, even with Heli bars, is a bit long so that's my biggest concern (I'm about 6'1", 33" inseam) with the new VFR. But everything else mentioned about Honda barely touching the engine, keeping the frame... makes it hard to get excited about that cash drop.

I'll be keeping an eye out for the seasonal price drops, though the season in Northern Cali never really stops. Fly-ride!

The RS was a comfortable bike, but it had no soul, IMO. I also hated that boxer engine. It is not a sports bike engine. I wanted my old 5th gen back in a hurry. You'll have to decide for your self. Post your opinion here.

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Magsz, on 28 Jul 2015 - 1:04 PM, said:Both the 7th and 8th iteration of the VF/R models are great bikes. Not a great bike at the list price but I know that if the 2015 VFR800DLX had a list price of $8,800 or $9,750 with hard bags they would sell a helluva lot more. The VFR1200 that I spent 10 days on in Europe last fall is also a great bike. A great bike that needs to have hard bags included and the suspension done to approach a fair value at the list price. As they come standard without bags it should be approximately $10,000 plus $1,200 for the bags (all three).

:laughing6-hehe:

Um, you DO realize a CBR600RR lists for $11,490, right??

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^ were you making some kind of a point here? (If so it went right over my head.)

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Just some of the modern day competition: FJ-09. List price is $10,500 with center stand, ABS, and traction control, more power, and less weight than VFR (hard bags are extra).

If VFR800 DLX was LIST at $11,500 I think they would sell plenty.

Link to picture with bags is: http://www.cycleworld.com/olgallery/137906/137925/15

FJ-09 review: http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/12/17/2015-yamaha-fj-09-sport-touring-motorcycle-review-first-ride-photos-specifications/

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Whether you're over the whole concept of showing off your manhood by way of horsepower or not, even the most sedate of us dont mind having more power on tap simply because its nice to have, not necessarily needed but nice nonetheless.

When shopping for bikes, or anything for that matter, the numbers on paper mean quite a bit to me. At 12.5 list price for a basic model, the numbers arent that impressive.

I know this isnt everything but i think part of the mental block that *i* have with this bike is the fact that i picked up a sixth gen for 3100 dollars with 4500 miles on it. Why would i pay four times that amount for something that is basically the same as my eight year old bike? I think alot of VFR lovers are in the same boat.

Honda definitely does NOT ascribe to the Iphone business model. This is potentially a good or bad thing based upon where you stand.

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Just some of the modern day competition: FJ-09. List price is $10,500 with center stand, ABS, and traction control, more power, and less weight than VFR (hard bags are extra).

If VFR800 DLX was LIST at $11,500 I think they would sell plenty.

The current FJ-09 is definitely a value leader. More power and torque and lighter too, although the 4.8 gallon tank would irritate the living shit out of me, But it's still significantly past CornerCarver's fantasy pricing model.

Whether you're over the whole concept of showing off your manhood by way of horsepower or not, even the most sedate of us dont mind having more power on tap simply because its nice to have, not necessarily needed but nice nonetheless.

When shopping for bikes, or anything for that matter, the numbers on paper mean quite a bit to me. At 12.5 list price for a basic model, the numbers arent that impressive.

I know this isnt everything but i think part of the mental block that *i* have with this bike is the fact that i picked up a sixth gen for 3100 dollars with 4500 miles on it. Why would i pay four times that amount for something that is basically the same as my eight year old bike? I think alot of VFR lovers are in the same boat.

Honda definitely does NOT ascribe to the Iphone business model. This is potentially a good or bad thing based upon where you stand.

Well yeah, I'd love a sub-400 lb bike with 250 BHP but I can't afford a MotoGP bike right now. And I certainly don't need that power. I'm not racing anyone and when it comes down to pulling away from stoplights or from aggressive assholes in cars, I have no problems at all.

Of course if some dickhead didn't run over my 4th gen and total it I'd still be riding that.

Sorry but I have no idea what you mean about the iPhone business model.

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Magsz, on 28 Jul 2015 - 1:04 PM, said:Both the 7th and 8th iteration of the VF/R models are great bikes. Not a great bike at the list price but I know that if the 2015 VFR800DLX had a list price of $8,800 or $9,750 with hard bags they would sell a helluva lot more. The VFR1200 that I spent 10 days on in Europe last fall is also a great bike. A great bike that needs to have hard bags included and the suspension done to approach a fair value at the list price. As they come standard without bags it should be approximately $10,000 plus $1,200 for the bags (all three).

:laughing6-hehe:

Um, you DO realize a CBR600RR lists for $11,490, right??

Ahh, good one. :beer: And that would be pertinent to this discussion if it was still a CBR600F4i or some other 15 year old design of an engine and chassis.

Current RaceReplicas are on a 2-3 year overhaul cycle (except for the very long in the tooth CBR1000RR which consistently gets it azz kicked at the track).

Are you suggesting that you would pay $11,500 for a CBR 600 plus fees?

But you shouldn't listen to me. The market has spoken and Honda dealers have dropped the actual prices until bikes started moving out the door in greater numbers instead of just sitting on the floor.

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Current RaceReplicas are on a 2-3 year overhaul cycle (except for the very long in the tooth CBR1000RR which consistently gets it azz kicked at the track).

Ummm. Tell that to John McGuinness:

http://www.iomtt.com/News/2015/June/12/New-Absolute-Lap-Record-for-McGuinness.aspx

Or Jeff Tigert:

http://www.cycleworld.com/2015/07/01/honda-pikes-peak-international-hill-climb-race-report/

The CBR is still a great road, and results don't lie, road racing motorcycle.

That being said, I recently had the opportunity to ride a 2014 CBR1000RR on one of my favorite stretches of road last weekend. This is a bike that was on my short list when I bought my Gen8 VFR, and I almost declined the chance to ride it because I was afraid I would have realized the mistake I had made buying the slower, heavier bike. I didn't make it more than 10 miles before I knew I had made the right decision for me. I still have a ZX7R that I would rather ride than the CBR1000RR. I just didn't like the ergonomics. Even though the bars are much higher on the VFR, the reach feels a little longer which I like. It might sound off, but the ZX7R has a similar reach to the bars as the VFR, albeit the ZX7R is not nearly as comfortable because the bars are much lower.

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I'm in the throes of this topic right now. Feeling like I want to increase the safety envelope around me (ABS, TC) during my 70 mi r/t commute as I await the birth of my second child, my 6th gen ('02) rides great though feels dated without the electronic extras (again, just for safety, not for pure motorcycling joy). Having just changed the clutch and brake fluid as well as coolant, and fixed up some broken plastic rivets to cut down on rattle... the riding experience with Staintunes, Heli bars, NWS hugger, Penske rear and revalved fronts... it's dialed in and great.

Now feels like the window of opportunity though, with an implicit ok from the wifey (who can argue against safety?), before I have two kids to entertain on weekends. Took the FJ-09 for a ride, fun motor, but the riding position made me slouch and fit and finish was not up to VFR standard. Something about that insecty looking front as well.

Tomorrow I test an R1200RS. Kinda wish I didn't read all the negative stuff from other guys on here as it may have biased me, but the cost alone gives me great pause. That leaves a test ride on the new Interceptor, which is not easy to come by it seems. The reach on my '02, even with Heli bars, is a bit long so that's my biggest concern (I'm about 6'1", 33" inseam) with the new VFR. But everything else mentioned about Honda barely touching the engine, keeping the frame... makes it hard to get excited about that cash drop.

I'll be keeping an eye out for the seasonal price drops, though the season in Northern Cali never really stops. Fly-ride!

The RS was a comfortable bike, but it had no soul, IMO. I also hated that boxer engine. It is not a sports bike engine. I wanted my old 5th gen back in a hurry. You'll have to decide for your self. Post your opinion here.

Ridered-- I just did a writeup of my test ride this morning:

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/81624-visit-to-bmw-dealer-saved-me-20k/?p=1008192

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Sorry but I have no idea what you mean about the iPhone business model.

A new model, every year with incremental updates. Some updates being useless, others being useful. People will flock just to get the latest and greatest just to say they've got it whether or not there is any actual realized utility behind the purchase.

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