Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted January 31, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted January 31, 2015 Understanding the relationship between pressure and flow running the free flowing 30 grade oil recommended in the owners manual...Choosing a 30 over a 40 or 50 is smarter because it will:1)increase HP at the rear wheel2)quicken the throttle response coming out of the corners...3)decrease over all operating temps...4)increase the oil flow at the critical bearings...I started with a $135 compact digital oil pressure gauge p/n P210 fromAuber Instruments with a 0-150 psi or 10 bar range...http://www.auberins.com/Installing Auber's senor was complicated because I wanted the to keepthe stock Honda sensor that signaled the red low oil pressure light onthe instrument cluster... I engineered this arrangement...Different threads required multiple fittings... I starter with thehole in the engine which are BSP threads... next came a BSP to NPTadapter... which allowed a NTP Tee for the NTP Auber sensor... finallyI screwed the BSP Honda sensor into the NPT Tee threads which held butleaked... so I sealed it up with a custom double O ring washer...I machined a Double O Ring washer to insure against an oil leak...It took 5 attempts to come up with the right angles and holes beforethe Delrin Clamp Mod worked like I wanted...The 5th Delrin Clamp was perfect...Machined Delrin clamp installed to anchor the long and ponderous Aubersensor to the bike...Carbon Fiber plate was used to secure the Oil Press Gauge to theinstrument cluster...All in all this mod consumed close to 30 day of labor but it was worthit... Now I'm able to evaluate my oil versus viscosity...I choose 0W30 because it gives the right flow at the normal operatingtemperature of 212ºF of the engine and that would be the viscosity of10 at operating temps... so that means for every 1000 rpms increaseMr.RC45's oil pressure increases another 10 psi... a 30w flows moreoil at higher rpms which flows more oil between the critical bearingswhich carries away more heat and I'm not wasting HP just pumping oilthrough the blow off valve...0w30 psi1000 102000 203000 304000 405000 506000 607000 708000 809000 9010000 9911000 99 blow off by the pressure relief valve0w401000 122000 243000 364000 485000 726000 847000 968000 99 blow off by the pressure relief valve9000 9910000 9911000 9915W50 psi1000 152000 303000 454000 605000 756000 907000 99 blow off by the pressure relief valve8000 999000 9910000 9911000 99 Quote Mobil 1 on the viscosity of their synthetic 0 30 weight oil:Temperature ( F )....Viscosity Flow212ºF..........................10 (operating)104ºF..........................56 (start up)32ºF..........................100 (estimate) Mr.RC45 Oil Press Gauge shows the problem with oil... it doesn't wantto flow when its cold this is 0w30 at 112º resisting at 18 psiThe same 0w30 at 203F Oil is flowing 10 psi perfect 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aimbot9000 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Thanks for the write up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer apexandy Posted January 31, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted January 31, 2015 Interesting test. Would it be safe to assume this information could be applied to my 4th gen engine? The 4th gen manual recommends the same viscosities per temperature range. I normally run 10w-40, but only ride my bike in 5-40*C weather. Would 0w-30 be a safe choice? And which mobil one are you using? Thanks! PS is that 92,000 miles on MR.RC45?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted January 31, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted January 31, 2015 ^^^^ 92,000 kilometers not miles... Mr. RC45 is an import Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer apexandy Posted February 1, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted February 1, 2015 Oops. Of course it's in KM's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted February 3, 2015 Author Member Contributer Share Posted February 3, 2015 Interesting test. Would it be safe to assume this information could be applied to my 4th gen engine? The 4th gen manual recommends the same viscosities per temperature range. I normally run 10w-40, but only ride my bike in 5-40*C weather. Would 0w-30 be a safe choice? And which mobil one are you using? Thanks! PS is that 92,000 miles on MR.RC45?? I know oil can labeling is confusing but If you understand what 0w30 actually means you'll note it falls under Honda's recommendations for a 30 grade oil API ranks the first number 0 and the letter W from the newest to the oldest on its ability to lube your engine during critical start up... 0w 5W 10W 15W 20W If you wish to employ the latest in oil technology then you want an one with an API rank of 0W... Technical speaking the first number (the "0" in 0w30) is only a relative number which basically indicates how easily it will allow an engine to "turn over" at low temperatures. It is NOT a viscosity reference. In other words, a 0W30 is NOT a 0 weight oil in cold temperatures and a 30 weight oil in warm temperatures... rather a 0w30 Mobil 1 actual viscosity is 57 cSt at 104F (40C) and 10.2 cSt at 212F (100C) that means the oil was heated to 100 degrees C and it flowed within a certain kinematic viscosity which is then classified with in a certain SAE grade like the "30" in 0w30). Oil Type......Viscosity 104° F....Viscosity 212° F Straight 30.......98............................10 10W-30............67............................10 0W-30..............57............................10 The chart shows the only difference between the 30 grade oils are viscosity during start up temp of 104ºF... the 0w oil lubricates your poor starving bearing the quickest... this is important because the most wear happens during start up before warm up...the straight 30 lubricates with noticeable longer times reaching the critical bearings... only at operating temp of 212ºF are the oil viscosity equal.. this is the engineering behind multi-grades... design an oil that flows quick during start up but still provide a stable and robust viscosity at operating temps... Mr.RC45's Mobil 1 0W-30 found at WalMart... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayarearider Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Ow, my head. Thanks for the info, I think. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum CEO HispanicSlammer Posted February 3, 2015 Forum CEO Share Posted February 3, 2015 Dont you get distracted by the KM/h speedo at all? I am surprised you never sourced OR MADE an new imperial faceplate, saved the other for posterity, since well you live in the USA and none of the speed limit signs are in metric. BTW Larry, I moved the post to the homepage to feature it, and copied a pic at the top so it will show up on the HP too. good post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer arrow Posted February 3, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted February 3, 2015 Those steam gauges look sooo cool, love them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted February 3, 2015 Author Member Contributer Share Posted February 3, 2015 Dont you get distracted by the KM/h speedo at all? I am surprised you never sourced OR MADE an new imperial faceplate, saved the other for posterity, since well you live in the USA and none of the speed limit signs are in metric. BTW Larry, I moved the post to the homepage to feature it, and copied a pic at the top so it will show up on the HP too. good post Thank you Miguel... I didn't replace the faceplate because the needle is glued on the shaft so if you look closely at the faceplate I've added white digits 1 thru 9 that reference MPH with a 157 MPH top speed... on my trip to Canada it was fun to use the metric side... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Lorne Posted February 4, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted February 4, 2015 Iirc, there was a lot of sturm und drang regarding the additives thought necessary for motorcycle gearboxes & wet clutch. And that the lighter oils are least likely to contain them. As I recall that is when some argued in favour of diesel-rated oil. Personally, I've been using Motul 10/40 semi but you have me thinking it might be time to go light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted February 7, 2015 Author Member Contributer Share Posted February 7, 2015 Iirc, there was a lot of sturm und drang regarding the additives thought necessary for motorcycle gearboxes & wet clutch. And that the lighter oils are least likely to contain them. As I recall that is when some argued in favour of diesel-rated oil. Personally, I've been using Motul 10/40 semi but you have me thinking it might be time to go light. CLUTCH Technically speaking there is no oils that can not defeat a wet clutch in good working order... what is confusing the issue is the fact that all motorcycle wet clutches will reach a point in their life and start to slip... no one complains about clutch slip when the bike is new... but on about the 27K to 57K range is when containments may build up to point where the clutch begins to loose its grip... this is usually discovered by the owner during WFO (Wide Fooking Open)throttle like at a track day... in error one can blame the oil but its really the contaminants on the clutch plates. DIESEL If you wish to run a diesel oil in your motorcycle then I recommend one with an API rating CH-4 or higher because it is formulated for "high speed" (what ever that means in a diesel) I hope it means some kind of anti-foaming agent for high rpms... Quote Api CH-4 Severe-Duty Diesel Engine Service This service oils are suitable for high speed, four-stroke diesel engines designed to meet 1998 exhaust emission standards and are specifically compounded for use with diesel fuels ranging in sulfur content up to 0.5% weight. CH-4 oils are superior in performance to those meeting API CF-4 and API CG-4 and can effectively lubricate engines calling for those API Service Categories. SEMI SYNTHETICS Semi-synthetic oils (also called 'synthetic blends') are blends of mineral oil with no more than 30% synthetic oil designed to have many of the benefits of synthetic oil without matching the cost of pure synthetic oil. Motul introduced the first semi-synthetic motor oil in 1966 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CasualSwede Posted February 7, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted February 7, 2015 DIESEL If you wish to run a diesel oil in your motorcycle then I recommend one with an API rating CH-4 or higher because it is formulated for "high speed" (what ever that means in a diesel) I hope it means some kind of anti-foaming agent for high rpms... My impression is that "high speed" for a diesel could very well only be ~3000 RPM, for some of those bigger rigs. Our bikes' ~11,000 RPM might be a bit out of that scale, but as you said, hopefully it's the presence of anti-foaming agents that counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Don't forget the turbocharger on that big diesel, spinning away at 100,000 RPM. I think that qualifies as "high speed". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted February 9, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted February 9, 2015 Love the " OH SHIT " meter Larry !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted February 9, 2015 Author Member Contributer Share Posted February 9, 2015 Don't forget the turbocharger on that big diesel, spinning away at 100,000 RPM. I think that qualifies as "high speed". True but the mechanical issue that causes excessive aeration is not a 100k spinning ball bearing... the problem relates to crankshaft speed at the rate of higher and higher RPMs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted February 9, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted February 9, 2015 Don't forget the turbocharger on that big diesel, spinning away at 100,000 RPM. I think that qualifies as "high speed". True but the mechanical issue that causes excessive aeration is not a 100k spinning ball bearing... the problem relates to crankshaft speed at the rate of higher and higher RPMs... ... Larry, Does the 5th gen have the same oil pump as Mr. RC45? Are your figures & measurements directly translatable to the 5th gen engines? Thanks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Don't forget the turbocharger on that big diesel, spinning away at 100,000 RPM. I think that qualifies as "high speed". True but the mechanical issue that causes excessive aeration is not a 100k spinning ball bearing... the problem relates to crankshaft speed at the rate of higher and higher RPMs... Isn't it that's why a lot of race engines are dry sumped?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted February 10, 2015 Author Member Contributer Share Posted February 10, 2015 Larry, Does the 5th gen have the same oil pump as Mr. RC45? Are your figures & measurements directly translatable to the 5th gen engines? Thanks... Yes... any VFR part that carries a MW4 designator was specifically designed for the RC45... you can see that not only does the VFR and RC45 share the same oil pump but also the same sprocket, chain and pressure relief valve... so there is mounting evidence that our figures & measurements are also the same... RC45 VFR800 part numbers 15100-MW4-000 PUMP ASSY., OIL $154.45 15134-MZ5-000 SPROCKET (25T) $21.40 15140-ML7-003 CHAIN (48L) $19.83 15220-MZ5-000VALVE ASSY., RELIEF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer pyrofitr1368 Posted February 15, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted February 15, 2015 I saw the oh sh*t gauge as well...what detector is that? How did you mount it so it would be effective? So, recap on the oil....if the clutch plates are in proper condition we should be able to use automotive oil. Lighter weight oil will flow better, but less pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted February 16, 2015 Author Member Contributer Share Posted February 16, 2015 Correct... if your clutch plates are in good working order then the choice of oil is not a deciding factor... Mr.RC45 is awful at lawful speeds... that's why I never ride withoutmy trusty a Bel 975r Remote radar detector...I fabricated a special Delrin mount and blends the gauges with thewarning pod... I used wax transfer letters to spell out "Oh Shit"I fabricated a small Delrin box to house the antenna and mounted itunder the fairing...Even Mr.CHP gets a kick out of the "Oh Shit" on the signal pod...Radar is under the jurisdiction of the FCC and its illegal to jamwhereas Lazer is under the jurisdiction of the Food and DrugAdministration and they are too busy with E Coli and traffickers to goafter Jammers at the moment... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyImport Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) Just read this post and the info is great but only viscosity and oil pressure at temp are being considered and although I believe that the newer oils will have better aeration and oxidation properties what about film thickness and sheer points which are what is critical in"high speed engines", I would still be vary wary of straying from the recommended oil. Synthetic over conventional oils will generally provide better qualities for high rpm applications. As wear increases in an engine and tolerances increase the thinner oils will not provide the same protection. Edited February 22, 2015 by JohnnyImport Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted February 22, 2015 Author Member Contributer Share Posted February 22, 2015 Just read this post and the info is great but only viscosity and oil pressure at temp are being considered and although I believe that the newer oils will have better aeration and oxidation properties what about film thickness and sheer points which are what is critical in"high speed engines", I would still be vary wary of straying from the recommended oil. Synthetic over conventional oils will generally provide better qualities for high rpm applications. As wear increases in an engine and tolerances increase the thinner oils will not provide the same protection. What unit of measurement are you using judge "film thickness"??? 30 grade oils are recommended for VFR as well as the RC45... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyImport Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) Not saying don't use 30 weight oil but switching from say a 10w to a 0w might not be the best idea. Cold engines don't need to make max horsepower there are other concerns besides throttle response etc. so a modern 10w will have all the benefits of a modern 0w, because most of the technology in oil is part of the additive package added to base oil stock. Just to clarify this is great information and props for doing all the leg work. Edited February 22, 2015 by JohnnyImport Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted February 22, 2015 Author Member Contributer Share Posted February 22, 2015 Not saying don't use 30 weight oil but switching from say a 10w to a 0w might not be the best idea. Cold engines don't need to make max horsepower there are other concerns besides throttle response etc. so a modern 10w will have all the benefits of a modern 0w, because most of the technology in oil is part of the additive package added to base oil stock. Just to clarify this is great information and props for doing all the leg work. You're welcome Johnny... switching from the old 10w to the latest 0w is indeed the best idea because the most wear happens during start up be fore warm up... I know oil can labeling is confusing but If you understand what 0w30 actually means you'll note it falls under Honda's recommendations for a 30 grade oil API ranks the first number 0 and the letter W from the newest to the oldest on its ability to lube your engine during critical start up... 0w 5W 10W 15W 20W If you wish to employ the latest in oil technology then you want an one with an API rank of 0W... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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