adamv Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I've been having this issue with a strange bleep sound coming from the front end of my motorcycle. (Recording attached) Through various tests, trials, and pain, here is a summary of what I've managed to find todate: This sound only seems to occurs when the engine temperature is over 70°C. (Exact temp, I'm not sure - it might be 75°, or 77°, but somewhere in the vicinity of this). The sound appears to be throttle related. It's probably hard to hear in the audio, but I am ever so slightly 'bleeping' the throttle (with the lightest of touch) to get this sound to occur. (Please - no jokes about bleeping causing a bleep :) ) Without touching the throttle there is no bleeping sound at all. This sound has occurred both when the bike is in gear, and also in neutral. (Originally from a previous discussion at http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/79813-strange-donk-from-front/it was looking like it might be the flapper valve but recently I've confirmed that it does happen in neutral as well). This sound has occurred when the bike has both being stationary, as well as moving. (I've only noticed at low speeds / revs but that may be because I can't hear it over engine and wind noise at faster speed / revs) It doesn't appear to be the horn from what I have checked. It seems as though it occurs in gear more than in neutral. This may just be my mind playing tricks with me - but it's definitely occurred in neutral as well. I've already had one mechanic try and find the issue without luck (although at that stage I didn't have as much information compiled as I have now), and will be looking at taking it to another mechanic for a look, but if anyone has any ideas as to what this might be I would be extremely grateful. Cheers Adam. bleep.mp3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lint Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Sounds just like the flapper valve to me. Lift the tank, pull and plug the vacuum hose and try it again. My bet is that the sound will be gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamv Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 Thanks Lint. I'll pull off the fuel tank and will try pulling that hose off to see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lint Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Any news on this? It's been a minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamv Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 Timing. :) I've been away for a couple of weeks, and haven't had a chance to get the bike out for a ride until today. Unfortunately the sound wasn't as loud today as normal for me to check out (typical), but I still believe I could hear it faintly. I lifted the fuel tank, removed the hose, and unfortunately I believe I could still hear the sound as before, so it's looking like it may not be the flapper. :-( I would have liked it to have been louder and more pronounce as it has been the last few times after a ride, so if/when it's louder again I'll do the check just to make sure this time it wasn't my tinnitus... I do have the bike booked in for a service soon though with another mechanic, so I'll run the recording by them too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspanglish Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 This should be dealt with in the original thread... now we have two threads on the same issue from the same author... this will not help my multiple personailty disorder. So... did you run the procedure I posted in the other thread for testing the flapper valve? If you didn't you can't discard or confirm whether it is or isn't the flapper valve. Do me a favour: put the bike on the centrestand, be REAL SURE that the rear wheel is OFF THE GROUND. Make sure no dogs or cats or small children are lurking around (mother's in law are OK), just in case they get there head or arm or leg taken off in the spokes of the spinning wheel... now do your same "bleeping" of the throttle with the bike IN GEAR and the bike IN NEUTRAL... again CAREFUL with the bike in gear (try weighting down the front) you don't want the spinning real wheel to touch the ground and launch the bike forward!!! Now: does it make the noise both in gear and in neutral?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamv Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 I started this new thread because the original had lots of different directions, such as steering bearings, suspension, etc. After narrowing down the sound to be directly linked to the throttle I thought it was better to clean up. Sorry if I've done the wrong thing. I have previously done what you've mentioned. Yes - the sound occurs both Neutral as well as in gear. Someone else has a thread where I can hear the same sound in it: http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/80219-whats-this-noise-how-do-i-fix-it-2010-vfr800/?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_id=39737 They have a video looking at part of the engine: http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_id=39737 I'm not sure if they're referring to the different tones in the engine either side of the bleep, or the bleep itself, but the bleep sound is very close, if not exactly what I'm hearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GadiantonRob Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 That's the flapper, bro. Go in, remove all things flapper, then it will be gone. The air box is very noisy on the 6th gen, but I am 100% sure that is the flapper "gulping". Once I removed the valve, lines, yada yada the sound went away for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lint Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Sooo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamv Posted February 10, 2015 Author Share Posted February 10, 2015 Veefer2010 has the same issue as me, and has just found a recent discovery that it may be related to the PAIR Valve solenoid http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/80219-whats-this-noise-how-do-i-fix-it-2010-vfr800/ I'm yet to disable PAIR on my bike. I took off the flapper valve hose, but the problem seemed to remain, so I'm going to check out this PAIR stuff instead... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lint Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I think you have a point there, that didn't occur to me until you pointed it out. I actually have my flapper valve vacuum line hooked up to the flapper because I couldn't find a plug, and there is no noise. In the past, I always prescribed it to the flapper, but I removed the PAIR valve solenoid and I don't have that sound. Hmmmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamv Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 OK - So I was home this evening and had some time to go for a ride. So after some instructions from @veefer2010 I took the tank off, found a plug with a red and green wire and unplugged it and wrapped the ends in electrical tape, and went for a good ride to a pub in a nearby town, and enjoyed a meal. I'm pleased to say that the sound is gone. It seems as though Jeff had the same problem, and same solution from his thread http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php?app=members&module=messaging§ion=view&do=showConversation&topicID=30483&st=0#msg125430 Looks like it is a PAIR issue. After searching the forums it seems like I can safely leave this unplugged with no ill effects. Bike ran well. I'm suspicious that it may have also been smoother at lower revs around town with throttle control. (This could be a mind over matter issue with me already being stoked that the bleeps have gone, so I'll have to do some more checks to confirm) - but so far very good news. I don't understand the PAIR system, but it seems as though it's supposed to run while the bike is cool (below 75°c), and it's doing the opposite. I'm no mechanic - but all seems to be better at this stage. Hopefully this will help someone else. Thanks to all those who have taken the time to reply to me with suggestions. It shows a lot that a bloke like me (who's that much of a hopeless mechanic that I struggled just to get the bolts back in for the tank :-) ) was able to finally locate and solve the issue with the help of members on this forum. Thanks guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamv Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 OK - an update: I've taken my bike in for a service and mentioned this to the mechanics. They plugged the PAIR back in, and suggested that it remain plugged in. (They weren't a Honda dealer - I'm going to have to travel some distance to get to one), but mentioned that it could burn out the Catalytic Converter and confuse the ECU / oxygen sensors - so the sound's back. I think that they've put it in the 'too hard basket' - but probably fair enough if they're not a Honda specialist. The options currently available to me as I see it: Leave it plugged in: I can leave it plugged in, and put up with the sound and sensitive throttle response at slow speeds. It seems as though it's not causing any damage - just a bit annoying (both the noise, and the throttle response). This is what I'm tempted to do at the moment. Unplug it again and leave it out Firstly, according to the mechanic I risk burning out the catalytic converter. In addition to this, I've been told that this could be illegal as I'd be bypassing a pollution reduction system. (A $250,000 fine and up to 5 years imprisonment here in Australia), so maybe not my best option. Find a Honda specialist or another mechanic I'm some distance from a Honda specialist. Probably would need 2 days off work. (Travel and waiting around) so it's going to be costly before I even pay them the bill. In addition to this, I'm not convinced that they will necessarily fix the problem - as they may not consider it an issue - and it's just 'working as designed'. This is the 2nd bike service center I've already taken my bike to re this issue, to be back where I started. Install a Power Commander I've been told that Installing a power commander will most likely fix this issue, as it will need to bypass the PAIR system anyway. What I don't understand is that to install this apparently you disable PAIR - so I can't see how this could be legal if simply disabling it without a power commander is as well. I've also been told that it won't make much difference to my bike otherwise (unless I changed to custom exhausts) as Honda is pretty good as factory default. So I'm just wondering what people here would recommend if you were in my shoes? Should I just not worry about it and just ride it, or would you do something different? Try and fix it myself Unfortunately I'm hopeless at mechanical work, and tend to wreck things that I have a go at fixing myself, so I'm not too keen on fiddling and doing my own maintenance, however so far with help from this board I've been surprised at what I've been able to achieve. I've heard that it might just be reed vales that require replacement. Just wondering if anyone's replaced these before and would like to comment if there's any trouble I could get into trying to replace these myself? Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dsankey1 Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 I am having exactly the same problem with my 08 VFR 800 - after a fair bit of research I reckon it's all working ok and the sound is just a noisy solenoid valve. As far as I can work out, the valve is open all the time when the engine is cold, and when the engine is warm, the valve is only open when the throttle is idle. This ties in with the sound we are getting when the throttle goes above idle when the engine is warm - it's simply the solenoid valve opening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspanyol Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Just unplug it if the noise bothers you that much and the snatchy throttle really does go away as an added benefit. Plenty of people on here remove the whole system and haven't reported cat con dramas. As far as being ilegal, Just plug it back in if going for a roadworthy cert. Who would suspect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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