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More Oil, Or More Water? Cooling Thoughts...


criticalmass181

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As a result of reengineering my tired ol' bike, i've come across a few sticky questions, with more than enough room for different angles of attack. This one's no different. When I pulled the fairing off, I almost laughed at the size of the oil cooler. Come to think of it, I think I did laugh. A 200mm three core radiator? WTF????? The question is, however, what do you all think? I was going to throw a bigger oil cooler at it, and be done. Then I saw a post of a bike with an extra radiator....right where I would have put the cooler. So which way would you go, if you were going down this track? Keep in mind that i'm in Australia, and not a winter rider. Over to you.

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Unless you are running too hot, why is it even something you are going to mess with? There's a thread on here about running without one IIRC. So unless you have temp issues or want to relocated it, I wouldn't mess with it, yet.

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I believe some folks have swapped out the OEM oil cooler for the SP1 which has an extra tier. Obviously in cooler climes this might have the bike running too cold for VTEC operation. Too cold is equally as bad as too hot.

I have been tempted many a time due to the extremely hot temps of southern Spain. But found that using a good quality and slightly more expensive coolant with a wider range of temperatura tolerance has solved the issue of overheating.

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oh for gods sake.

just run the oil lines back to the tail and have a copper coiled tube in a shroud with 2 computer fans. you could ride in the sahara with this set up. :rolleyes:

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The choice is yours but choosing a 30wt over a 40wt or 50wt oil is smarter because it will:

1)increase HP at the rear wheel
2)quicken the throttle response coming out of the corners...
3)decrease over all operating temps...
4)increase the oil flow at the critical bearings...

Any one of 30 grade 100% synthetic motorcycle specific oils will meet
and exceed both your temp and mileage expectations...

300V-4T-FACTORY-LINE-5W30.jpg

mct_qt_300.jpg

118.png

61qzRGQdqfL._SY355_.jpg

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oh for gods sake.

just run the oil lines back to the tail and have a copper coiled tube in a shroud with 2 computer fans. you could ride in the sahara with this set up. :rolleyes:

Have you done this? What diameter cooper tubing and how many feet of coiled tubing gives an effective cooling loop since there are no fins?

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The choice is yours but choosing a 30wt over a 40wt or 50wt oil is smarter because it will:

1)increase HP at the rear wheel

2)quicken the throttle response coming out of the corners...

3)decrease over all operating temps...

4)increase the oil flow at the critical bearings...

Any one of 30 grade 100% synthetic motorcycle specific oils will meet

and exceed both your temp and mileage expectations...

300V-4T-FACTORY-LINE-5W30.jpg

mct_qt_300.jpg

118.png

61qzRGQdqfL._SY355_.jpg

I get that good oil will do wonders....However, I like to play hard. I don't own this bike, so I can be the fastest kid on the block. It's more of a 'David and Goliath' thing....The bike is being reengineered, to get every free pony...every degree of handling, and every drop of soul out of it. I'd rather ask the questions, now, while it's an engine on a bench, than to look back in anger.

oh for gods sake.

just run the oil lines back to the tail and have a copper coiled tube in a shroud with 2 computer fans. you could ride in the sahara with this set up. :rolleyes:

Sounds good... A little rustic, for what i'm trying to achieve...but good. I was, however, thinking of getting another (same model) oil cooler, plumbing them together, and sticking them in the sides of the seat. Could be a bit of a drama, though, as a good deal of crap is already earmarked for that location. The battery, and the two rear exhausts will be there, too. Seeing it'll all be a bit 'arse upwards', I don't want to stick too much in the rear.

I believe some folks have swapped out the OEM oil cooler for the SP1 which has an extra tier. Obviously in cooler climes this might have the bike running too cold for VTEC operation. Too cold is equally as bad as too hot.

I have been tempted many a time due to the extremely hot temps of southern Spain. But found that using a good quality and slightly more expensive coolant with a wider range of temperature tolerance has solved the issue of overheating.

No VTEC on this ol' baby. Thanks for your input. I'll be riding it in the Summertime, in Australia. Nothing below 35c, most days. It was well into the 40's, over the weekend. The bike is just an engine on a bench, at the moment. I just want some input, before I stick it together.

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oh for gods sake.

just run the oil lines back to the tail and have a copper coiled tube in a shroud with 2 computer fans. you could ride in the sahara with this set up. :rolleyes:

Have you done this? What diameter cooper tubing and how many feet of coiled tubing gives an effective cooling loop since there are no fins?

yep, on more than a few used 1/4 inch tubing to fit in the cut oil line and used a hose clamp.

long story short i did this on a crashed bike just to get it home.. but the guy said it ran cooler than stock .so he brought it back and i made it pretty for him..aka hid the lines .

then did it on a few other bikes mainly for steam punk looks. :wink:

no idea how many feet. i just made it fit the areas i had to work with.

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OK, well unless you measure the oil temperature on the way back to the pump from the cooler, then its a pointless exercise. The manufacturer will have done this in combination with the water cooling system for all world temperature zones. The fact they didn't change the spec for Aus or southern Europe indicates the system works well enough in all climates.

The oil needs to reach approx 100c to evaporate water out & work at its best, much cooler & it will have water contaminates which is bad for our plain bearing engines & much more than 120c is bad for the oil, though its rated much higher.

My bike makes 112whp & that is a 17% improvement over stock & in 2013 in 32C heat in southern England being caned on open roads it never got bothered, same in Spain last year. So unless your measure the oil temps & find them way off specs above then leave it alone.

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If you really want reduce your parasidic draw, you might want to think about an electric water pump.

I can't help but think all the effort put towards the oil cooler(s) might be better spent elsewhere. I fail to what what performance gains are to be had by relocating it, and your increase in volume may decrease pressure. If a change were to be warranted, it seems like a slightly larger one in the stock location would make the most sense. Do I remember someone suggesting a GSXR or Busa cooler? Search for the thread about omitting the cooler.

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My inquiry for relocating is because I would like to use that space up front for something else... as mentioned earlier, a RC51 cooler in the stock location adds an additional tier and should improve heat transfer by ~30%. I forget if it is the SP1 or SP2 that works best because of the fitting angles... someone (Veefer?) can chime in...

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So many cans of worms...from so many countries. It's good to see that no one is sleeping, when it comes to engineering. So, what have I learned? Most are in favour of just keeping the cooler, as is, as it wouldn't benefit my bike, by making any changes. Tick in the box, as far as that's concerned. I'll still have to relocate it, as i'm designing a fresh fairing and tail. It'll be 'somewhere', but no different in size. That only leaves the radiator, then. I'll probably make it into something bigger. It's not going to effect the bike, as it's thermostatically controlled. If one was to overshoot the runway, it'd make no real difference. It's a supply and demand setup. Thanks for all your suggestions.

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OK, well unless you measure the oil temperature on the way back to the pump from the cooler, then its a pointless exercise. The manufacturer will have done this in combination with the water cooling system for all world temperature zones. The fact they didn't change the spec for Aus or southern Europe indicates the system works well enough in all climates.

The oil needs to reach approx 100c to evaporate water out & work at its best, much cooler & it will have water contaminates which is bad for our plain bearing engines & much more than 120c is bad for the oil, though its rated much higher.

My bike makes 112whp & that is a 17% improvement over stock & in 2013 in 32C heat in southern England being caned on open roads it never got bothered, same in Spain last year. So unless your measure the oil temps & find them way off specs above then leave it alone.

Wise words, indeed. Thanks.

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front mount radiator. it works better than side mounts, so the oil cooler has less work to do.

Check out the Vyrus & now RAGE racers http://www.altoracing.co.uk/gallery/new-rage-bike-unveiling/ they have no front radiators & I had a chat with the big cheese at the NEC bike show in November. Their testing shows that this config reduces drag from air trying to ram through the rad at speed & also improves thermal efficiency by 25% so the bike has smaller/lighter radiators than most other racers with the same engine ! go figure, they have no fans & the rads work by thermal convection when stationary to !

So maybe Honda got it right with the side mount rads, just the reverse fan nonsence was the only issue.

FYi I have electric water pump, works great, it pumps at same rate regardless of speed, so when slow it cools better & when fast its enough to cope with full chat power without problem due to the better cooling of higher airflow ! Win Win.

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So many cans of worms...from so many countries. It's good to see that no one is sleeping, when it comes to engineering. So, what have I learned? Most are in favour of just keeping the cooler, as is, as it wouldn't benefit my bike, by making any changes. Tick in the box, as far as that's concerned. I'll still have to relocate it, as i'm designing a fresh fairing and tail. It'll be 'somewhere', but no different in size. That only leaves the radiator, then. I'll probably make it into something bigger. It's not going to effect the bike, as it's thermostatically controlled. If one was to overshoot the runway, it'd make no real difference. It's a supply and demand setup. Thanks for all your suggestions.

well when living in AZ , i got a second thermosate from a junk yard for a whole 25 cents.. so i cut out the thermo switch and drilled the hole larger , dropped it back in.

no worries about over heating due to a stuck plunger ever again in that start and stop traffic !!!

. coolant starts flowing from the second you hit the starter.. but we 750 owners have no FI to worry about :happy:

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Where does that mount? Shape wise it looks like it fits in the front of the engine "V" which is conventional... hard to tell without size scale, is that underseat?

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Where does that mount? Shape wise it looks like it fits in the front of the engine "V" which is conventional... hard to tell without size scale, is that underseat?

all up front :wink:

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The TL1000R front mount rad that I was using was far more efficient than the twin side mounts the bike came with.

I've got a custom made rad from race rads in Dandenong Victoria in the garage ready to replace it.

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