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2007 Vfr800 Rwb Dead At Key Turn!


badelman

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Update: Hey guys, finally got the cojones to go ahead and rip apart the burnt connector and reconnect the wires (See pic).

20141024_181852.jpg

Now the VFR starts up with no problems just like before (some huge excitement here) BUT this time I notice very hot wires (where I re-connected them) so I think it's time to continue the troubleshooting and based on all group input I guess we look at the R/R and the Stator.

Your much experienced input here please!!!

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I'm not sure that your fix I would call permanent, but would get you by on a temp bases. But its enuff to do the R/R and stator tests as below.

These are R/R quick checks---

--- With voltmeter at battery get voltages -- idle volts? 5000 rpm volts? What’s the numbers? Should be in 13ish min idle and in 14s at revs. If in the 12s at idle, try at 1900 rpm. (It’s not unusual for the system to be in discharge or no charge at idle.) Check at battery posts.

- Check stator

- 1. Pull connector apart. Set meter to resistance. Check pin to pin stator side, 3 yellow wires, A to B, B to C, C to A. What’s the numbers? 3 separate readings --Should be less than 1.0 ohms. (Engine off)

- 2. Check continuity from each A,B,C pin stator side to ground, -- -should be infinity - nada nothing. no continuity. -- 3 separate checks. (Engine off, again connector is apart)

- 3. Crank it back up. Do another pin to pin thing, but set meter on AC volts. idle and 5000 rpms. What's da numbers? Should start 15 -20ish and climb 50ish and more. Again – 3 readings stator side connector and still apart.

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I'm not sure that your fix I would call permanent, but would get you by on a temp bases. But its enuff to do the R/R and stator tests as below.

These are R/R quick checks---

--- With voltmeter at battery get voltages -- idle volts? 5000 rpm volts? What’s the numbers? Should be in 13ish min idle and in 14s at revs. If in the 12s at idle, try at 1900 rpm. (It’s not unusual for the system to be in discharge or no charge at idle.) Check at battery posts.

- Check stator

- 1. Pull connector apart. Set meter to resistance. Check pin to pin stator side, 3 yellow wires, A to B, B to C, C to A. What’s the numbers? 3 separate readings --Should be less than 1.0 ohms. (Engine off)

- 2. Check continuity from each A,B,C pin stator side to ground, -- -should be infinity - nada nothing. no continuity. -- 3 separate checks. (Engine off, again connector is apart)

- 3. Crank it back up. Do another pin to pin thing, but set meter on AC volts. idle and 5000 rpms. What's da numbers? Should start 15 -20ish and climb 50ish and more. Again – 3 readings stator side connector and still apart.

Thanks for this Mello.. I'll be working on this today and report back as soon as I have results.

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Update.. I used the R/R and Stator video's from Ricks Motorsport Electrics and all of your (the forum - everyone) to help guide me. I also posted some pics below of the two connectors coming from the R/R because the videos show it a little differently. I had to test using both connectors.. one for the three yellow's and another for negative/positive. I am still a bit confused as there are two red wires, two green ones and one black one on the one connector but I tested as best I could (not as easy as 2 pos and one neg.). Calling Rick's.. they said that that eaither red was fine for a live wire to test but I did both also the two greens and the black. Also, hopefully I've documented this in such a way that it might help others.. Please send your feedback and thoughts and for those that said to replace stator and R/R initially your probably right but I had to test! You understand!?

I apologize for the smallness of the grid. I don't know why it's uploading so small. Please let me know and I'll be glad to forward on the Excel sheet to anyone if requested!

VFR800_Stator_RR_Test_Results.jpg

20141027_135737.jpg

20141027_143559.jpg

Again, please send your feedback and thank you very much!!

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-- Looks like the R/R volts are fine in the top set of data.

-- Not sure what is going on in the red/green data, but IMHO, I dont find the diode test of much value, R/Rs to me are a 1 or a 0.

-- Stator tests --- you did fine in the 1 & 2 tests. But test 3 is off. The readings make no sense. See if you can retest, check meter range.

That said - chances are you are fine. If the stator was bad, the R/R readings would also be bad.

btw - great job on the tests. :fing02:

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Mello, thank you for the encouragement! Interesting note regarding the R/R... anywho, I tested again for Test 3. I used the volt setting for AC. This time I tested on the back part of the connector closest to the stator and also had my wife hold the throttle. Man it wants to get away from you at 5k and it's hard to hold steady. My results are based on testing at -AC+ // +BC- // -CA+ (positive and negative are where what color lead goes where)

At idle (range):

12.3 to 12.4 // 12.3-12.4 // 12.3 - 12.4

At approx 5,000 RPM

10.3 to 11.5 // 11.9 to 12.5 // 10.9 to 11.4

What do you think? I know you said it needs to be between 15-20 and climb higher. Do I have the multimeter setup wrong? I believe it to be correct as I selected volts and switched the mode to AC.

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Looks like the stator's done. IIRC at 5,000 rpm you should be seeing 60 volts +/- (maybe a bit more). The meter should be on a scale of something like 0-500v or similar - depends on your meter.

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Correction: To double check and make sure I'm selecting the right choices to test..

I have 4 selections on my multimeter:

1. Dont know what this is.. cant even find it in the manual. I'll keep looking!

2. AC/DC Current Measurement

-Select AC

-Select DC

3. AC/DC Voltage Measurement

-Select AC

-Select DC

-Frequency and % Duty Cycle Measurements

4. Resistance Measurement

-Diode Test

-Continuity

-Capacitance

-Ohm

I've been using #3 (above). Is that correct for Mello's #3 Test??

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Yes, setting #1, AC voltage. Just be sure it isn't on something like 0-1000v or similar - select the lowest range that you expect to test that your meter supports - most have something like 0-250 or 0-500. Don't select something like 0-10v if it has it (which it probably does not). You should definitely be seeing more A/C voltage than reported above. Re-run the test if you want to be sure. If you get the same result, it's time to remove the stator cover and see what you've got.

Just to confirm - you had the connector separated while testing . . .

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Yes, setting #1, AC voltage. Just be sure it isn't on something like 0-1000v or similar - select the lowest range that you expect to test that your meter supports - most have something like 0-250 or 0-500. Don't select something like 0-10v if it has it (which it probably does not). You should definitely be seeing more A/C voltage than reported above. Re-run the test if you want to be sure. If you get the same result, it's time to remove the stator cover and see what you've got.

Just to confirm - you had the connector separated while testing . . .

Cogswell, I just corrected my last post please check it out. Also, the multimeter I have is auto ranging so I cannot select any range! The very short and crisp manual is located at: Manual if your interested.Here's another link with a picture of it and a summary.

Yes, setting #1, AC voltage. Just be sure it isn't on something like 0-1000v or similar - select the lowest range that you expect to test that your meter supports - most have something like 0-250 or 0-500. Don't select something like 0-10v if it has it (which it probably does not). You should definitely be seeing more A/C voltage than reported above. Re-run the test if you want to be sure. If you get the same result, it's time to remove the stator cover and see what you've got.

Just to confirm - you had the connector separated while testing . . .

I did not have the connector separated while testing for Test #3 with the bike at idle and at 5,000 rpm.

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From page 6 of your manual, select "V" with the rotary switch, then push the button to select "Mode" and select "A/C". You should be good to go. Now separate the connector, re-run the 3 pairs and idle and 5,000 rpm and see what you get.

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Sounds like I have the right setting. THANK YOU Cogswell for aiding in confirmation.. Ok dumb question here but will the bike run with the stator disconnected? AND.... what side should I test from (closest to stator or other connector end)? If the Stator is disconnected will it even have power? I can answer my own question by trying but I'm mind to mouth (er uhh... typing)!

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Just answered the question. Thanks Cogswell!! The bike does start with the Stator disconnected from the R/R. Also, the side I'm testing is the 3 holes at the connector attached to the Stator. I'll post results at the Dallas Cowboy halftime!

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Aha! Now the numbers are looking like there in the right range. Here are the results during Monday Night Football commercial breaks (too excited to wait):


At idle (range):

19.6 to 21.2 // 19.9 to 22 // 20.8 to 21.7


At approx 5,000 RPM

61 approx // 60 approx // 62 approx

*note that it climbs from idle all the way to 70 at times when overshooting 5k


Do I need to replace the Stator or the R/R?


What sense can I make of all of these results?

-Have the temporary fix of the fried connector repaired to spec????

-Get a new battery just to be safe as the one I got may not be ok longterm????

-Get the VFRness just to be safe???


What do y'all think?

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Well you figured it out - stator connector apart! Remember post 53?

So - R/R good, stator good.

What to do?

Get serious about the wire fixes and you need higher amperage connections that will last. You mention it was getting hot when you ran it. Big clue that waht you have aint gonna get it. -- Once you do this, go riding!

We did mention that the battery was on the small side. You may as well use it up for now, with plans to get new when the time comes.

Oh yeah, and a voltmeter is a good addition.

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/70384-post-your-voltmeter-mount-pics/

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Well you figured it out - stator connector apart! Remember post 53?

So - R/R good, stator good.

What to do?

Get serious about the wire fixes and you need higher amperage connections that will last. You mention it was getting hot when you ran it. Big clue that waht you have aint gonna get it. -- Once you do this, go riding!

We did mention that the battery was on the small side. You may as well use it up for now, with plans to get new when the time comes.

Oh yeah, and a voltmeter is a good addition.

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/70384-post-your-voltmeter-mount-pics/

Mello, I'm embarrassed. Yes post #53 by you no less!.. now I know. I've really learned a lot. I appreciate all your patience (includes all on the forum too) in helping me to work through this issue. I'll get that connector properly fixed and take action on your other suggestions. I still have a couple questions though..

1. Is the Stator/R/R bound to go out on this 6 Gen sometime soon and should I be worried at 28k miles?

-Any way to be prepared when on the road far away from home?

2. Will keeping this battery be detrimental to the bike in any way?

P.S. Now that I have the fairing off I might as well do some other stuff so you'll see some other posts coming I'm sure.

Thank you! Thank you!

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:cheerleader:

If you don't care to do soldering / crimping, you can try Posi-Locks. I haven't used them to replace my stator connector, but have used them elsewhere with very good results. When the wire is placed through the cap and screwed tight it's a blast-proof connection. I've never had one come apart. They're rated for 600v so plenty for the stator - just get the right ones for the size wire. I've gotten them at NAPA, but they can also be had on line such as Amazon. While you're at all this, it can't hurt to use some Oxgard on all the rest of the connector blades to keep things free of corrosion.

http://www.posi-lock.com/posilock.html

http://www.gardnerbender.com/en/ox-100b

The small battery shouldn't hurt the bike, but you may find at some point that it lacks the mojo to turn the motor over - most likely when you need it the most - like in some small town or deserted rest stop somewhere.

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:cheerleader:

If you don't care to do soldering / crimping, you can try Posi-Locks. I haven't used them to replace my stator connector, but have used them elsewhere with very good results. When the wire is placed through the cap and screwed tight it's a blast-proof connection. I've never had one come apart. They're rated for 600v so plenty for the stator - just get the right ones for the size wire. I've gotten them at NAPA, but they can also be had on line such as Amazon. While you're at all this, it can't hurt to use some Oxgard on all the rest of the connector blades to keep things free of corrosion.

http://www.posi-lock.com/posilock.html

http://www.gardnerbender.com/en/ox-100b

The small battery shouldn't hurt the bike, but you may find at some point that it lacks the mojo to turn the motor over - most likely when you need it the most - like in some small town or deserted rest stop somewhere.

So informative and so funny at the same time Cogswell. Thank you!

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Well you figured it out - stator connector apart! Remember post 53?

So - R/R good, stator good.

What to do?

Get serious about the wire fixes and you need higher amperage connections that will last. You mention it was getting hot when you ran it. Big clue that waht you have aint gonna get it. -- Once you do this, go riding!

We did mention that the battery was on the small side. You may as well use it up for now, with plans to get new when the time comes.

Oh yeah, and a voltmeter is a good addition.

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/70384-post-your-voltmeter-mount-pics/

Mello, I'm embarrassed. Yes post #53 by you no less!.. now I know. I've really learned a lot. I appreciate all your patience (includes all on the forum too) in helping me to work through this issue. I'll get that connector properly fixed and take action on your other suggestions. I still have a couple questions though..

1. Is the Stator/R/R bound to go out on this 6 Gen sometime soon and should I be worried at 28k miles?

-Any way to be prepared when on the road far away from home?

2. Will keeping this battery be detrimental to the bike in any way?

P.S. Now that I have the fairing off I might as well do some other stuff so you'll see some other posts coming I'm sure.

Thank you! Thank you!

--OEM stators typically run ok to around the 50k range average. But some have crapped out earlier......

-- Cant really put a typical R/R life, its all over the map.

- The best weapon to avoid getting stranded? A digital voltmeter. The charging system typically doesnt die suddenly and will trend to no mans land when its time to start wearing out. So for now, your good to go on the stator and R/R, but do upgrade your connections, and add the voltmeter.

Beers to you bro. :beer:

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Thanks to the OP for sharing his issues and everyone who replied. This was a very informative post. I think I have taken care of all the electrical gremlins (for now) on my 4th gen. I just finished installing a voltmeter on my new-to-me 5th gen this weekend. I hope to catch any electrical issues before they get too serious.

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Well you figured it out - stator connector apart! Remember post 53?

So - R/R good, stator good.

What to do?

Get serious about the wire fixes and you need higher amperage connections that will last. You mention it was getting hot when you ran it. Big clue that waht you have aint gonna get it. -- Once you do this, go riding!

We did mention that the battery was on the small side. You may as well use it up for now, with plans to get new when the time comes.

Oh yeah, and a voltmeter is a good addition.

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/70384-post-your-voltmeter-mount-pics/

Mello, I'm embarrassed. Yes post #53 by you no less!.. now I know. I've really learned a lot. I appreciate all your patience (includes all on the forum too) in helping me to work through this issue. I'll get that connector properly fixed and take action on your other suggestions. I still have a couple questions though..

1. Is the Stator/R/R bound to go out on this 6 Gen sometime soon and should I be worried at 28k miles?

-Any way to be prepared when on the road far away from home?

2. Will keeping this battery be detrimental to the bike in any way?

P.S. Now that I have the fairing off I might as well do some other stuff so you'll see some other posts coming I'm sure.

Thank you! Thank you!

--OEM stators typically run ok to around the 50k range average. But some have crapped out earlier......

-- Cant really put a typical R/R life, its all over the map.

- The best weapon to avoid getting stranded? A digital voltmeter. The charging system typically doesnt die suddenly and will trend to no mans land when its time to start wearing out. So for now, your good to go on the stator and R/R, but do upgrade your connections, and add the voltmeter.

Beers to you bro. :beer:

And to you as well!!

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  • 2 weeks later...
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Guys, as a quick update.. I've installed VFRness and the workaround is still in place. The red wire of the 4 pin connector is still getting super hot and beginning to melt the work around (individual connector). No other wires in the 4 pin are hot at all. I'm working with Joshua on the 4 pin replacement connector as well as a starter relay repair kit. Should I go ahead and order that relay now or is that even really related at this point? I can also clean the grounds (green wires) underneath the tank as mentioned earlier.. Have not done that yet!

VFRness in place. Thanks again Dutch! Just needed an extra t-tap connector, 20 amp fuse and zip ties.. Man super easy instructions too Kudos to Joshua for that!

post-30321-0-78272800-1415385228.jpg

Close up of damage workaround

post-30321-0-14876700-1415385245.jpg

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Hey - You are finding out the hard way on what happens with an undersized connection setup - melty, melty! You need a connector with serious balls..

My suggestion is to use the Metripac 630 good for 47 amps.

source

http://www.cycleterminal.com/metri-pack.html

Unfortunately you will need a crimp tool. But once you have it, I'm sure there are future VFR wire fixes to be done that you can use it for too.

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