Member Contributer Switchblade Posted October 15, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted October 15, 2014 Not the starter switch stuck. Here is a dam good thread on the charging system , long read, but a lot of great info. http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/29975-tips-tricks-to-help-your-charging-system/page-7 And if I were you I would pull off both sides and start looking for the obvious stuff first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer dutchinterceptor Posted October 15, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted October 15, 2014 I know the starter switch kills the headlights for sure but can't remember if anything else cuts off. The clock being on shows that you are at least getting power to the meter panel. Switchblade is right though, check the obvious stuff first. If the battery tests at above 12 volts and was load tested at Auto Zone I wouldn't swap it just yet. Make sure all of the fuses under the front right meter panel are good. Double check the main fuses next to the battery. Verify that the R/R connector and wiring is good. Yellow wires, connector is in a vinyl boot above right radiator. Clean and tighten the ground wire connection at the top of the frame underneath the tank. (Green Wires) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted October 15, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted October 15, 2014 Pull the battery leads from the battery and check all connection points. Look for burnt connector and or dis-colored wires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted October 15, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted October 15, 2014 Agree to llook for the obvious stuff, but he'e a newbie and a debug procedure may be over his head. So trying step by step. Yes look at fuses and burnt connections, so then get power to get the fuel pump running and the bike starts. Charging debugging after that. Whadya think Badelman? I'm with mello dude - that YTX9-BS is the wrong battery for the bike. Yuasa lists it at 120 CCA (cold cranking amps). The factory battery is YTZ-12 which is 210 CCA. At its peak what you have is barely adequate so it may be just too tired to do much more than run the clock. If it were me I would get a fresh battery of the correct type installed before I went any further. You may find that you just have a very weak battery. Since you have the meter (and set to 20v DC), place the leads on the terminals (red to +) and see what you get. I'm with ya Cogswell, the battery size caught my eye imediately...... Badelman, sorry man, go get a YTZ - 12 or 14 battery. - Good point Dutch on the the switch unit.... I used the multimeter on the battery and got between 12.60 and 12.61. How does this look? Group consensus works for me I can still replace the battery but does it look to be the immediate issue or cause of dead bike even though it tested good at the Autozone with this reading? Are you thinking that it will just start right up after being replaced? A little history on the battery: The guy I bought it from put this battery in new just before I bought the Viffer from him. I asked if anything was wrong before that or if there was a reason to change the battery and he said .....nope. I believed him as I do go riding with the guy, he lives close and has about 6 other bikes. P.S. Clock is not resetting.. Per starter switch being stuck: Do I just dismantle the starter switch to see if it's stuck? Wouldn't at least the running lights come on or something even IF it is the issue (don't recall what comes on and what doesn't or shouldn't). Chances are the previous owner was having charging problems and stuck a cheap battery in the bike so it would run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer badelman Posted October 15, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 15, 2014 Will do Mello. I'll be back at it this evening. Thanks to all so far for the detail oriented comments this will definitely help. I'll report back as soon as I got more info. I'll send pics as well. I hope it's something I can see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer badelman Posted October 16, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 16, 2014 Barry reporting! Fuses all tested with multimeter at 200 ohms setting per: http://www.swecheck.com.au/pages/learn_fuse_testing.php Here's a picture to get the overview: 1. Main: 30amp fuse tests good 2. There is another fuse and some loose wire (red/brown) located to the right of the battery: It is not the main fuse. It is 30 amp and tests good also. 3. fuse panel (under right dash): All fuses test good Only thing of note so far is the discolored red plastic at main fuse showing a hole through but again.. fuse tests good?! I did not show pictures of the tests as I have no one here to take photos while I hold the two prongs steady but I can tell you that the number jumped from 1 to .9,.8,.7,.6... so I did see continuity based on what I've learned so far. Also, while going through this exercise I went ahead at suggestion and sprayed everything with WD40. I have not removed the fairings. That is next. Any thoughts or direction so far??? Thanks all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted October 16, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted October 16, 2014 You found it !!! Kinda worried about that taped up finger . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer badelman Posted October 16, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 16, 2014 Switch, when you say you found it what do you mean?? Do you mean I found the problem? I'm confused? The fuse is still good and for all purposes it appears that all connections are still good so far. Well.. I don't know how to test the plug yet but it looks good besides the little melty spot. P.S. No worries on the finger.. I was pulling out a toilet as we're getting tile put in my place. Non moto related! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer dutchinterceptor Posted October 16, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted October 16, 2014 Chances are the wiring on the right side is going south too. The starter relay may need to be replaced also. Next step is to pull the right lower fairing and take a peek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer badelman Posted October 16, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 16, 2014 Chances are the wiring on the right side is going south too. The starter relay may need to be replaced also. Next step is to pull the right lower fairing and take a peek. Will do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted October 16, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted October 16, 2014 dutch is right i suspect the R\R and or the stator are fried . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer badelman Posted October 21, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 21, 2014 All, could not get to my bike as my garage was full of tile but it has now been moved! Here's my latest update with pics. Some interesting results. I'll post an overview picture first then wire inspection from top to bottom: *Note the burn mark on the top connector cover 1. Here is the 1st connector from the top inside the top cover. This one looks ok but I really don't know how to test. 2. Here is the 2nd connector under the top cover. Wow! Does not look good. I'm sure this had to be what I smelled burning while riding for weeks. What is this for? 3. Here is the 3rd connector under the second connector cover. 4 Here's the 4th connector under the third connector cover. It looks dirty but I'm on the fence. It doesnt smell burnt. Again, not sure how to test these... An even closer look... Again just looks dirty but... how to test? Is there a way with the multi-meter? Ok.. so here are more pieces to the puzzle. Where to go from here? I did find some obvious issues but what are they and is it indication of more trouble elsewhere?? Thanks all for your help so far!! I believe together we'll get this VFR running again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer dutchinterceptor Posted October 21, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted October 21, 2014 The first red and small connector look good. The second(melted) connector is most likely causing your starter relay to melt also.(R/R and/or Stator are most likely the actual cause) The third one looks good. The fourth one is hard to tell. Is the dark spot melted plastic or just dirt? The next step is to replace the connector and burnt wiring. The choice you'll have to make is whether to replace the connector or just splice in new wire. You'll want to strip the wire back until you see clean copper. (I would just replace the connector with wire soldered in place) If it were mine I'd replace the starter relay. Once you've done all this the bike should run and will then allow you to test the stator and R/R. You are getting there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer badelman Posted October 21, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 21, 2014 The first red and small connector look good. The second(melted) connector is most likely causing your starter relay to melt also.(R/R and/or Stator are most likely the actual cause) The third one looks good. The fourth one is hard to tell. Is the dark spot melted plastic or just dirt? The next step is to replace the connector and burnt wiring. The choice you'll have to make is whether to replace the connector or just splice in new wire. You'll want to strip the wire back until you see clean copper. (I would just replace the connector with wire soldered in place) If it were mine I'd replace the starter relay. Once you've done all this the bike should run and will then allow you to test the stator and R/R. You are getting there! Thanks Dutch! Per your bullets: The first red and small connector look good. CHECK The second(melted) connector is most likely causing your starter relay to melt also.(R/R and/or Stator are most likely the actual cause) // CHECK!!!! The third one looks good. CHECK The fourth one is hard to tell. Is the dark spot melted plastic or just dirt? I believe it's dirt. CHECK: I cleaned it off with WD40 and it is coming clean as well as the metal tabs inside Questions: 1. Is there a good place to get the appropriate connectors/Starter Relay?? Partzilla? Anywhere faster? 2. I will strip back to good wire however if I'm forced to add wire (due to limited wire) what's the best method? 3. Any good tutorials on replacing connectors? 4. Where does VFR ness come into all of this or does it? Maybe I'm thinking way too ahead!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer dutchinterceptor Posted October 21, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted October 21, 2014 Questions: 1. Is there a good place to get the appropriate connectors/Starter Relay?? Partzilla? Anywhere faster? (Local Stealer, Ron Ayers, Service Honda, BikeBandit, etc) 2. I will strip back to good wire however if I'm forced to add wire (due to limited wire) what's the best method? (You'll most likely need to add wire. You can solder the connections or use crimp connectors or the posi-lock connectors. Heat shrink looks neater but electrical tape can be sufficient if wrapped well.) 3. Any good tutorials on replacing connectors? (Here's One On Youtube, Here's a quickie guide for the basics) 4. Where does VFR ness come into all of this or does it? Maybe I'm thinking way too ahead!? (The VFRness is a great idea and will help to keep this from happening again especially if you add a voltage monitor in the future. I believe you will need those connectors to plug it into so you might contact Joshua at www.wiremybike.com or Tightwad here on the forum. He might have those connectors that you'll need. He's a good friend and very helpful.) Easternbeaver is another source for electronic parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted October 21, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted October 21, 2014 Good connector source.. http://www.cycleterminal.com/index.html Chances are your gonna need a crimp tool...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFROr Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Here a pic that a member posted. Guess it really does not show the charging system but if it happens not to be the charging system it's good to have ! Just noticed a mistake in that starting circuit block diagram, BAS relay should read Engine Stop Relay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer badelman Posted October 21, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 21, 2014 Dutch/Mello/All, Is it too dangerous to strip the connector wire and reconnect cleaned/stripped wire just to see what happens before I buy anything?! I believe I found a starter relay at Partzilla for $40. Please someone confirm this is it (should be #7 on the list): http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Honda/Motorcycle/2007/VFR800+AC/BATTERY/parts.html **If there is one cheaper I couldn't find it at any other retailers with the possible exception of Mello's link to cycle terminal. They have relays and for cheap but not sure yet if they have the one I need.. I will research further. As for the burned up connector.. I have to buy the whole wiring harness from an OEM parts place to get it but.... Mello's link... the site is a little too complex for me so it will take awhile longer to wade through but I will again research further they may have it! Thanks Mello. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer badelman Posted October 21, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 21, 2014 FYI.. Some research at cycle terminal yielded this info: Hi Barry, you can find a similar connector here SC250-4 http://www.cycleterminal.com/250-connectors.html#SC250 I have no resources for a starter relay. I use Hondabike.com for factory parts. There are lots of forums and tutorials where people have similar problems and you can get some answers as to what they have done. It’s hard to say how I would go about lengthening those wires. I might cut the wire back to good clean wire and solder new lengths to it and shrink tube it, or I would possibly make an adaptor harness with a connector on each end to lengthen it, depending what it was for.( an extra connection on that harness may not be a good idea) Some people would probably cut the wires out and solder them directly to each other. Would I? No For a ratcheting crimp tool that will work with the terminals provided with the connector, the ECT005 will work fine. Terminals can also be crimped with a pair of needle nose pliers and soldered. But you would need to be pretty good with a soldering iron. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted October 21, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted October 21, 2014 No matter what, the wires and connectors need to be repaired or replaced. You have to decide if you are comfortable doing it, or find some help... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFROr Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Dutch/Mello/All, Is it too dangerous to strip the connector wire and reconnect cleaned/stripped wire just to see what happens before I buy anything?! I've had the same issues on the same parts, didn't buy any new parts just rewired stock stuff, I think my starter relay might be a little worse than yours. I soldered a new wire and spade connector onto the stock wire and haven't had any problems for the last 4 years. I clean and inspect it every time I have the seat off, though. For the cooked white connector, I soldered new wires in there also and ran the connection outside of the connector, no problems there, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer dutchinterceptor Posted October 21, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted October 21, 2014 Yes, you found the correct relay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer badelman Posted October 22, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 22, 2014 Quick update I traced the fried connector straight to where I put the key in to start the Viffer. I do not know where the other end goes. Clock on dash is now off but maybe that's because I've disconnected many connectors on the right side of the bike!? I got Rick's Motorsport Electrics on the phone to help test the Regulator Rectifier (R/R) as the connectors on the VFR are slightly different than what's on their nice instructional video. With the Viffer's two connectors off of the R/R here we go: 1. Switch multimeter to diode setting 2. Test black multimeter lead from one of the red/white wire from connector 1 to all 3 yellow pins at connector // Results - 484,494,487 3. Test red multimeter lead from same red/white // Results - nothing,nothing,nothing Rick's Motorsport Electrics says that the R/R is good. All I hear is that I can save some money.. hopefully! Stator testing is next although I know I cannot do the rpm test until the bike can start! My overall plan is to try and see what all I need so I can get it all at once. Your feedback? Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer badelman Posted October 22, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 22, 2014 Quick update I traced the fried connector straight to where I put the key in to start the Viffer. I do not know where the other end goes. Clock on dash is now off but maybe that's because I've disconnected many connectors on the right side of the bike!? I got Rick's Motorsport Electrics on the phone to help test the Regulator Rectifier (R/R) as the connectors on the VFR are slightly different than what's on their nice instructional video. With the Viffer's two connectors off of the R/R here we go: 1. Switch multimeter to diode setting 2. Test black multimeter lead from one of the red/white wire from connector 1 to all 3 yellow pins at connector // Results - 484,494,487 3. Test red multimeter lead from same red/white // Results - nothing,nothing,nothing Rick's Motorsport Electrics says that the R/R is good. All I hear is that I can save some money.. hopefully! Stator testing is next although I know I cannot do the rpm test until the bike can start! My overall plan is to try and see what all I need so I can get it all at once. Your feedback? Thoughts? Scratch my comment about the R/R testing good. I spoke to an upper level (I guess) tech at Rick's and he said that all tests ARE NOT conclusive unless you can also run tests with the bike on as well. So... plan now is to cut out burned wire and get the bike started to run more tests. Again these wires (at burnt connector) seem to go straight to just underneath the where I put in the ignition key. Anyone know what gauge wire I should use to replace it with? Thanks all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted October 23, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted October 23, 2014 Here a pic that a member posted. Guess it really does not show the charging system but if it happens not to be the charging system it's good to have ! Just noticed a mistake in that starting circuit block diagram, BAS relay should read Engine Stop Relay THANKS !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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