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Rapidbike Evo And Racing Related Questions !


RapidBikeUSA

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12 hours ago, Grum said:

Hey boOZZIE. Just curious, what is the benefit of all short velocity stacks, considering the different induction air pulses with the V4 firing crank angles of 180, 270, 180, and 90.

Honda went to a bit of trouble in matching/tuning the velocity stack lengths with the above crank angles.

From my understanding it moves the power curve slightly to higher rpm range and therefore a little less down low and inturn slightly less snatchy throttle down low....maybe. no quantifiable testing done. 2 short vstacks were au$30 so I gave it a go and it goes good.

but variable height velocity stacks would be noice for g9 🙂

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  • 2 weeks later...
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My RB Racing unit shipped!  Question for all of you with a 6th gen, where did you put it?  I have the reservoir for my WP shock in the left storage compartment under the seat, and the VFR tools, etc in the right side, so hopefully its small enough to fit in elsewhere, or somewhere among all those thing.  My options for relocating the reservoir are pretty much zero and I could relocate the tools if i have to, but don't want to have to run saddle bags all the time.

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Sorry to tell you that I had to mount it under the seat on the rider's right.   The wires to the O2 sensors will have to run down to the stator cover, and the RB harness connects to the harness on the right side of the throttle body under the tank, so it was constrained by that.  Honestly, I don't know where else it could fit on 6G. 

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1 hour ago, Cogswell said:

Sorry to tell you that I had to mount it under the seat on the rider's right.   The wires to the O2 sensors will have to run down to the stator cover, and the RB harness connects to the harness on the right side of the throttle body under the tank, so it was constrained by that.  Honestly, I don't know where else it could fit on 6G. 

Well, maybe between the tiny cargo slot in my Seargeant saddle and what space is left towards the back of the two pockets, I can make something work.  Time to get creative...

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1 hour ago, ShipFixer said:

Well, maybe between the tiny cargo slot in my Seargeant saddle and what space is left towards the back of the two pockets, I can make something work.  Time to get creative...

Do you do any 2 up riding? 

If not, try relocating tools like this

 

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1 hour ago, ShipFixer said:

Well, maybe between the tiny cargo slot in my Seargeant saddle and what space is left towards the back of the two pockets, I can make something work.  Time to get creative...

 

Ya know, you just might be on to something with the seat mount option.  Since mine is in (a million) pieces, I grabbed the RB unit and placed it in the seat cargo slot - to my surprise it fits.  The cover wouldn't quite close and there's the issue of getting the wiring harness through the lid, but it looks like maybe with some cutting here and there it just might be made to work.  If you do that, please post up some pics - would love to see how you do it. 

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2 hours ago, Cogswell said:

 

Ya know, you just might be on to something with the seat mount option.  Since mine is in (a million) pieces, I grabbed the RB unit and placed it in the seat cargo slot - to my surprise it fits.  The cover wouldn't quite close and there's the issue of getting the wiring harness through the lid, but it looks like maybe with some cutting here and there it just might be made to work.  If you do that, please post up some pics - would love to see how you do it. 

Oh, I'm thinking of re-arranging the tools into the remaining space in the underseat tray and inside the saddle, to free up space on the right side for the RB.  Among other things I could probably slim down the tool kit with some smaller alternatives.  I'm not sure I'd like to hassle with wiring in and out of the saddle :lol:

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2 hours ago, boOZZIE said:

Do you do any 2 up riding? 

If not, try relocating tools like this

 

I do a little bit - but I also don't want to cut into my new Seargeant 😄 It comes with a little storage area under the pillion spot as well.  Really good spot for insurance and registration cards, will see how much else I can get in there.

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  • 2 weeks later...
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Ok I have it installed, and plugged in everywhere.  The harness was clearly meant for the left side of the bike where I have my shock reservoir so it took many tries to get it to go far enough on the left to the O2 sensors.  May re-attack and alternate spot later.  But for now, on to riding!

 

So question...bike starts, Rapid Bike software connects to the unit via USB just fine and shows bike status.  Appears to have a map loaded already.  Do I just ride this thing for a while and let it figure itself out?

 

One other thing I had forgotten about...I actually did the O2 sensor eliminator thing with resistors ~15 years ago.  At first I thought "WTF" but then as I pulled the tape off I recalled I did it.  Sadly, stock bike still goes into closed loop mode unless you do the key trick.  Now that I know what no closed loop looks like...the O2 sensor eliminators by themselves do nothing to change it.  Hopefully the RB does.  I can see voltage from my stock O2 sensors and they are in line with what I expect from cars idling so...here goes, suiting up for a late night grocery-get and test ride...

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Well that was a successful test ride!  I want to see how it does on longer trips, but I think this absolutely defeats the annoying drop/surge behavior with closed loop control.  Did a normal start, full ECU boot, and never did the bike obviously lean out power on me.  There were a couple times later on in 4th gear around 5K RPM that I thought it was dialing it back just slightly, with the RB maybe adjusting it right back...but it was so subtle I'm not completely sure, where the Honda dial-back is very obvious.

 

Power curve is very obviously filled-in mid range too.  5th and 6th are much, much more useful and I didn't have to downshift nearly as much.  Bike wanted to hit every ramp much faster than usual, which is what I think most people are looking for.  No more flat spots 😄

 

Oh, and I managed to shove my tool kit under the center spine of the rear subframe, across both pockets.  It'll be awkward to get them in and out but I really don't use them that much anyway.  Will post pictures later.

 

Going to be a while, but now I'm very interested to see what the mid range will feel like after I install the VFRD headers.  And come back with a wide band O2 sensor of course!

 

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That's what I did - I just plugged it in and rode it.  Same thing - no flat spots, and I picked up a couple of mpg.  I don't know why anyone would buy a P.C. these days.

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21 hours ago, ShipFixer said:

So question...bike starts, Rapid Bike software connects to the unit via USB just fine and shows bike status.  Appears to have a map loaded already.  Do I just ride this thing for a while and let it figure itself out?

You need to select an option while connected to the bike for it to optimise/self adjust the fuel map.

 

I can't remember where it is exactly as I have deleted all my software 

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The software ran, but I didn't see anything obvious like "Self-learn" or "optimize," it had some windows that looked related but nothing clear.  Kinda like the website 😄

 

I've put about 80 miles on it, I'm going to go down to the garage with my laptop and see if it made any adjustments in a few hours.

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Again...the manual could be better.  But my bike is automatically tuning itself with the stock O2 sensors as far as I can see, and in line with previous posters' examples:

 

0786610A-3732-491A-B841-A986FB798401.jpe

 

I've only jetted up and down the highway a few times and gone on a few errands.  So very little time spent above 7,000 RPM or with lots of throttle for the RB to observe.  The numbers match my feeling as to what it's adjusting to, where the bike is happier sitting between 4K and 6K RPM without downshifting as much.  From what I can tell, the "RBo2 Active" box must be checked for it to use the O2 signal.  Mine was checked already.

 

What I did just enable tonight...I think...is ignition and fuel advance (section 3.6.3 in the manual).  Will see if that makes a difference tomorrow.

 

For those who might be interested, here's where I ended up putting this thing:

 

CF10108D-5BBF-42D7-A608-42E26C48117C.jpe

 

That's the RB Racing unit on the left side of the photo (right side of the bike), with the USB and other cable plugs inside the plastic bag by the rear brake reservoir.  The red rag on the other side is around my shock reservoir (I have some neoprene foam sheets coming to make all of this look a lot nicer).

 

The tools are in there...but hidden under the center spine, running between both pockets.  I can pull out the RB unit or the shock reservoir very easily and get to them.

 

The harness has just enough length to meet the stock O2 sensors on the left side of the bike, running right by the rear cylinder heads and down inside the frame near the coolant reservoir.  The other connectors have excess length that's loosely running under the fuel tank on the right side, and coiled a bit behind the plastic body panel in front of the rear brake reservoir.  In other words...this thing is clearly meant to go on the left side of the bike, but my WP shock was there first!

 

 

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Yep that 'RB02 active' is the 1 and that's the same spot I had mine located. 

I dropped the computer connection cable, with a bit of double sided tape, to the outside to make it easier.

 

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After you get a few more miles under your belt with the rapid bike. I highly recommend updating the % load scales and rpm scales to max out at the limits of where the auto tune is working. This will give you a much more accurate tune as your incriments get smaller. After work I'll take a picture of my tune as an example 

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The problem with the lambda sensor tuning is its fixed for 14.7 AFR lean running state. It only sends rich or lean not actual AFR values. Thus it can correct areas that are rich or lean but not set a specific target AFR you may desire. 
 

The wideband sensor MTB allows you to set a target AFR & it will auto tune to that target. 

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Yeah, you don't want to use auto-tune with factory O2-sensor in load-zones higher than 80% due to limited 14.7:1 resolution. You'll need richer mixtures in those zones and max-power is generated at ~13.5:1. Not to mention that +/- variations will be much tighter with wideband.

 

Many modern autos use wideband O2-sensor and can hold 14.7:1 at WOT all way to redline. But that's with exact 14.7:1 mixtures whole way, not +/- 10% variations. The 10-20 revolutions of engine at 16.0:1 before correction is enough to cause ping/knocking/detonation and blown head-gaskets.

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2 minutes ago, DannoXYZ said:

Yeah, you don't want to use auto-tune with factory O2-sensor in load-zones higher than 80% due to limited 14.7:1 resolution. You'll need richer mixtures in those zones and max-power is generated at ~13.5:1. Not to mention that +/- variations will be much tighter with wideband.

 

Well, duh, I thought everyone knew that.

 

😉

 

Seriously, thanks Danno, your expertise is so appreciated. There are so many skilled and knowledgeable VFRD members, pretty awesome.

 

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12 hours ago, TriumphTraitor said:

After you get a few more miles under your belt with the rapid bike. I highly recommend updating the % load scales and rpm scales to max out at the limits of where the auto tune is working. This will give you a much more accurate tune as your incriments get smaller. After work I'll take a picture of my tune as an example 

as mentioned

Capture1.PNG

Capture2.PNG

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Interesting...thanks!  Anyone play with the fuel injection and ignition advance much?  The manual doesn't say a whole lot other than rider preference plays a part :lol:

 

I'm not too worried about tuning at WOT, pretty happy with the mid-range steady state and roll-on behavior.  Like if I got no more improvements and never had drop/surge behavior come back, I'd be content.  Useability of the bike is waaaaaaay up, it's nice not having to futz with gear and throttle management too much in corners!

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I read somewhere  (I'll try to find it) that a degree or 2 of advance through midrange helps a VTEC. Need to be very careful though - don't want any detonation.  And IIRC it requires premium fuel to avoid that.  

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12 hours ago, St. Stephen said:

Seriously, thanks Danno, your expertise is so appreciated. There are so many skilled and knowledgeable VFRD members, pretty awesome.

 

why I'm most honored, thank you! 👋

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13 hours ago, DannoXYZ said:

why I'm most honored, thank you! 👋

 

Just wait. I'm setting you up to answer 273 stupid questions when I finally buy that 5th gen. (and Grum. Cogs, Terry...)

  • Haha 2
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