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Rapidbike Evo And Racing Related Questions !

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I asked about upgrading to a wide band sensor without the My Tuning Bike module and the answer was NO, it is not possible. For me, it's not worth going with My Tuning Bike module because of the cost. You can get a PCV with Autotune and wide band for about half the price.

Still curious to hear about anyone's experience with the Raid Bike and tuning with narrow band sensors.

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Still curious to hear about anyone's experience with the Raid Bike and tuning with narrow band sensors.

So what can I say. I made some changes In my bike before I have installed RB. First I changed slipon to SCProject and air filter to Pipercross. After that modifications I felt in some middle range power drop. To some range bike in full throttle behave normal, than drop power and after getting some rpm again get normal power. After installing RB module with o2 narrow sensor, auto adaptive function create own map and now my bike behave in full rpm range normal. My positive felling is that bike get more power in down and mid rpm range. Of course fuel consumption increased about 1-1,5l per 100km more. To get right information from narrow band I made pair mode42a9fc485b3fceb85758d24c05ee4082.jpgdb6a791a23b8b9e79489cd6ed4fc23de.jpg

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Thanks for the great information Cimaj. When you say you used the narrow band sensors in pair mode, does this mean that the two sensors work together to generate one map, or one map per cylinder pair? Also curious if you have tried adjusting the engine braking setting. Lastly, does the Rapid Bike harness plug into each injector individually or does it tap into fuel system harness with a single connector?

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Maybe I didn`t write correct. I haven`t change o2 sensor, I use information from stock narrow band. Only what I made more I blinded PAIR system, to have correct information from o2 sensor and reach good AFR. I haven`t palyed with engine break yet. RB harness has one main connector to ECU and others to TPS, o2 and crankshaft sensor. What they haven`t made in this harness, they didn`t get connector to gear sensor position. I`ve installed RB QS which work much better then stock one. I attach instruction how to install RB on gen 8 - which is the same as in PC. 

MANUAL-333.pdf

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On 4/6/2018 at 12:52 PM, V4moto said:

I don't see any reason to ditch the stock O2 sensors just because of age. With less than 20k miles they should have plenty of life left. If the Rapid Bike can produce a good tune with them then that's what I'm interested in. For me part of the attraction of Rapid Bike is the ability to use the stock sensors. I realize that the wide band sensors are better at tuning for large throttle openings but I'm more interested in overall driveability and smaller throttle openings (closed loop fueling).

 

While the 20 year old o2 sensors could be okay or on their way out, they still will not be anywhere close to as accurate as a new Bosch wide band. Though the difference in tuning a lightly modded vfr could be negligible, so its your call (but it seems like you have already made your decision). A wide band o2 sensor will tune faster and more accurately than the factory narrow bands, at all throttle and rpm positions (Not just large throttle openings). I guess you go this idea from how the Honda ECU only uses the factory narrow band o2 sensors at light/steady throttle, but this is irrelevant, as the narrow bands are disabled to the honda ecu when the Rapid bike is added (Rapid bike will take information from narrow bands at all ranges for tuning its own mapping, but send a steady signal to the honda ecu, so the honda ecu stays in open loop while the rapid bike stays in closed loop. This happens whether using factory narrow the band o2 sensors or the my tuning wide band kit.)

 

I do understand the gain per dollar argument and just installing a Rapid Bike Evo with no other options or dyno tuning required is attractive and definitely doable on +2000 VFR800's, I am just giving you my opinion on what I would do....

 

On 4/6/2018 at 7:31 PM, Stray said:

Description of my tuning bike module says their wide band sensor should be used IN ADDITION to the stock narrow band sensors. 

 

It may say this on their website, but this is false. I threw away my factory narrow band o2 sensors almost 9 years ago and I am using the Rapid Bike Racing module plus My tuning bike wide band o2 sensors with great success.

 

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Their wide band should only be used alone on bikes that were not equipped with o2 sensors in the first place. 

 

This is also false, for reasons that I listed above. (my 2007 vfr800 is running great with no narrow bands and the rapid bike wide bands).

 

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My ‘98 has no sensors. I’ve been wondering if I should stick one in after the collector for the Rapid Bike Racing module or not. 

 

Yes this is a good idea. A single wide band o2 sensor in the collector with the My Tuning kit.

 

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A single sensor is not ideal, however, as the rear cylinders run richer than the front. You’d need a different sensor for front and back. 

 

You definitely do not NEED separate front and back wide band o2 sensors (literally every single VFR800 that has been dyno tuned, has been tuned with a single wide band down the collector), though you are certainly right, 2 wide bands would be more ideal than one wide band and furthermore, 4 wide band o2 sensors will be more ideal than 2 (I am actually currently using 4 my tuning kits for individual cylinder mapping and it is phenomenal). 

 

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In the perfect world I’d install 2 wide bands with 2 my tuning bike modules but the cost would be insane. Cheaper option is just to install 2 narrow bands plugged straight into the RBR. 

 

Stray

 

Definitely debatable, as everyone's idea of bang for the buck is different, though if you do go the narrow band route, please buy new oem from Honda and not mystery used ebay o2 sensors.

 

On 4/7/2018 at 6:55 AM, Stray said:

Thanks Mohawk, I am riding on your coat tails here. Your results with this module are the reason I got interested. Huge debt owed to you, both on this and other mods. 

 

Like you, I was hoping to mess with ignition advance but it is disappointing to hear your findings that only 3 degrees are available. Is that throughout the entire rev range or does it vary? 

 

The ignition advance varies. On the Rapid Bike supplied 5th gen ignition map you will see 3 degrees at low throttle/rpms, 2 degrees at medium throttle/rpms and 1 degree at higher throttle and rpms. Honda just did not leave as much on the table on the 5th gens as they did with the 6th gens (which will take 5 degrees advance through the entire low-midrange).

 

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If memory serves you got the my tuning bike kit with wide band sensors too, yes? 

 

As mine is a pre-sensor model I was wondering if I could weld two wide band sensors into the downpipe collectors and plug them straight into the Rapid Bike Racing unit WITHOUT the My Tuning Bike module. Will the RBR accept these directly? Hoping to save money here. 

 

No. The Rapid bike will only accept the factory narrow bands directly or the Bosch wide bands with a my tuning bike module.

 

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As for saving money, the RBR unit is a poor choice even if moving it from bike-to-bike. The harness alone costs £130 (including tax and shipping). A new PC3 would be about the same! 

 

Rapid Bike Racing and Power Commander are in totally different classes. Not much of a comparison, but for you 5th gen users, yes the RB Evo and PC are a better bang for the buck and if the buyer is not interested in traction control, launch control, engine braking adjust-ability, closed loop fuel tuning, on the fly fuel trim adjustments etc, the PC would be more cost efficient. 

 

This is a totally different story on the 6th gens (maybe 8th gen as well), where the race module's added ignition advance totally transforms the bike, with much stronger 2500-8000 rpm torque and throttle response.

 

On 4/9/2018 at 11:14 PM, V4moto said:

Thanks for the great information Cimaj. When you say you used the narrow band sensors in pair mode, does this mean that the two sensors work together to generate one map, or one map per cylinder pair? Also curious if you have tried adjusting the engine braking setting. Lastly, does the Rapid Bike harness plug into each injector individually or does it tap into fuel system harness with a single connector?

 

Cimaj was talking about blocking off the pair valves that inject air into the exhaust ports, as they dilute the exhaust gas and can give an inaccurate AFR reading.

I have used the Engine Brake feature and it works phenomenally, it really smooths out the on/off throttle transition, where Honda was actually shutting off the fueling for emissions compliance (most prominent in the top three gears above 5000 rpms).

 

 

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CandyRedRC46 do I understand good, I can throw away stock o2 narrow band and on it place I can install Bosh wide band with “my tune bike” . Do I have do something more in bike’s electrical wiring?

Could you tell something more about engine brake, what are good values/settings?

 

 

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On 12/04/2018 at 3:53 PM, CandyRedRC46 said:

 

Yes this is a good idea. A single wide band o2 sensor in the collector with the My Tuning kit.

 

 

The ignition advance varies. On the Rapid Bike supplied 5th gen ignition map you will see 3 degrees at low throttle/rpms, 2 degrees at medium throttle/rpms and 1 degree at higher throttle and rpms. Honda just did not leave as much on the table on the 5th gens as they did with the 6th gens (which will take 5 degrees advance through the entire low-midrange).

 

 

No. The Rapid bike will only accept the factory narrow bands directly or the Bosch wide bands with a my tuning bike module.

 

 

Rapid Bike Racing and Power Commander are in totally different classes. Not much of a comparison, but for you 5th gen users, yes the RB Evo and PC are a better bang for the buck and if the buyer is not interested in traction control, launch control, engine braking adjust-ability, closed loop fuel tuning, on the fly fuel trim adjustments etc, the PC would be more cost efficient. 

 

This is a totally different story on the 6th gens (maybe 8th gen as well), where the race module's added ignition advance totally transforms the bike, with much stronger 2500-8000 rpm torque and throttle response.

 

 

I have used the Engine Brake feature and it works phenomenally, it really smooths out the on/off throttle transition, where Honda was actually shutting off the fueling for emissions compliance (most prominent in the top three gears above 5000 rpms).

 

 

Candy, thanks for your thorough, detailed and intelligent response. I really appreciate it - top man! 

 

Looks like I’ll be getting a My Tuning Bike module from Liam on Monday. I’d love to have 4 but simply can’t justify it for a high-mileage 20 year old ride. 

 

Curious, would running premium fuel allow an extra degree of advance? I run premium most of the time anyway (keeps the fuel system nice and clean). 

 

There’s nothing like getting good info from someone who has used and studied the subject matter. 

 

Thanks again, Candy. 

 

Stray

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On 4/13/2018 at 3:47 PM, Cimaj said:

CandyRedRC46 do I understand good, I can throw away stock o2 narrow band and on it place I can install Bosh wide band with “my tune bike” . Do I have do something more in bike’s electrical wiring?

Could you tell something more about engine brake, what are good values/settings?

 

 

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I believe what I did was:

Remove factory narrow bands.

Installed o2 eminators on the honda harness

Loop the o2 sensor connections on the Rapid bike harness.

 

Definitely don't throw your factory o2 sensors away, just in case that doesn't work.

 

For the engine brake settings, I based my settings on my AFR readings on the Youtune display. Each gear needs slightly different adjustment, but since we do not have a gear input on the VFR harness, I tried to do the best compromise for each gear. I will have to double check my settings, but I think I had it around 50%, so closed throttle deceleration would stay in the 13-14:1 range. You definitely don't want to get much below 13:1 AFR, as you will be wasting gas and far too rich and you don't want to be much above 14:1, as it will not be effective.

 

 

On 4/14/2018 at 7:45 PM, Stray said:

Candy, thanks for your thorough, detailed and intelligent response. I really appreciate it - top man! 

 

Looks like I’ll be getting a My Tuning Bike module from Liam on Monday. I’d love to have 4 but simply can’t justify it for a high-mileage 20 year old ride. 

 

Curious, would running premium fuel allow an extra degree of advance? I run premium most of the time anyway (keeps the fuel system nice and clean). 

 

There’s nothing like getting good info from someone who has used and studied the subject matter. 

 

Thanks again, Candy. 

 

Stray

 

 

You're welcome Stray.

Yeah 4 my tuning bikes is great, but a bit excessive.

The Rapid Bike Racing ignition maps were created to run on Mid-Premium octane fuel (95 Euro; 91 US). The 5th gen VFR800's ignition mapping is pretty optimized from the factory, so there is not much more ignition advance that can be safely added. If you ran 98, you could maybe add 0.5-1.0 degree of advance on top of the rapid bike base map, but I would only do it while tuning on a dyno, with some means of knock detection and by a professional.

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Does anyone have a Bosch part number for the wide band O2 sensor that works with My Tuning Bike? 

 

I’ve lost the one that came with the kit and need to replace it. It’s a generic part and I’d rather not go to Dimsport as it costs twice as much from them. 

 

Could be this one but can not guarantee it: http://www.bosch-motorsport.com/media/catalog_resources/Lambda_Sensor_LSU_49_Datasheet_51_en_2779147659pdf.pdf

 

Part number: 0 258 017 025

 

That’s what happens when you don’t install things in time and keep them stored away safely...

 

Stray

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You need the Bosch LSU 4.2 for the older MYB or the 4.9 for the new one. The connectors & operation are very different, so you can’t use 4.9 with old MTB. Have a look at the connector on yours, if it was from the group buy or not in the last year then it’s likely 4.2.

 

just match your MTB connector.

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Thanks Mohawk. It’s a 4.9 for sure. Will have to take a punt on one of the 4.9 variants and see how it goes. 

 

I think the the only variable is cable length. You can get some with motorsport connectors but MTB uses the standard automotive plug. 

 

Thanks again Mohawk. 

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