Member Contributer HighSideNZ Posted October 23, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) Guys I've been experimenting with my RB Racing and My Tuning Bike module and trying to get my mapping right. Before going to the RB Racing unit I was running a RB3 and had created a good map by using a wideband O2 sensor and a Zeitronix Data logger. This map has served me well over the last 12 months or so and I had removed all the surging/stutters etc. and had the VTec transition pretty smooth. When I got the RB Racing I took the standard factory map and compared it in Excel to the map I'd created for my RB3. There were some pretty large variances in places so I copied the data from the RB3 map to the RB Racing, cell by cell. interpolating the areas where the rpm ranges didn't correspond between the maps. I then turned off the Auto Adaption and My Tuning Bike and went for a ride. Just to make sure all was as I'd expect. Well, there was quite a difference in smoothness just with the RB Racing module alone. The bike performed just like before, with the RB3, but only smoother. Gear shifting was smoother as well and I can only put that down to the situation where the quickshifter is cutting in much lower in the rev range so even with a clutch upshift, the QS cutout is operation. Another good positive side effect. Back to the mapping. So I turned on the MTB and after emailing Yaman, he advised that I should ride like normal and have a look at the correction map. Pay particular attention to low rpm/low tps cells and if they have large correction this may be an effect from the aftermarket exhaust and the MTB is over compensating. Well I went for about a 160km ride and stopped a couple of time and took a look at the correction map. What I feel I have found is that due to our bikes not having a Gear Position Sensor, you need to make fairly large compromises when you set up your maps. From just running the MTB, my hand built map that did not surge, now surges again in the 3000/4000 rpm range. I feel that this is due to the situation where the mapping needs to be different if you are in say 2nd gear at these rpm, compared to say cruising in 6th gear around the same rpm range. I've email Yaman with my finding and have asked a couple of questions re the MTB and Auto Adaptivity functions. I've said to him that I may need to block all cells in the adaptivity map from being altered, except for the specific area I want to work on. Get this area sorted out, apply the alterations to the map, and then move to a different area of the map and do the same. Apart from this small issue, I think the RB Racing unit is going to be great. Bad luck our bike don't have a Gear Position Sensor. If they did we could map by gear and get around these types of issues. I'll keep everyone posted on progress. Phil Edited October 23, 2014 by HighSideNZ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer HighSideNZ Posted October 23, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted October 23, 2014 I've just heard from Yaman and he feel that the issue is to do with reversion in the exhaust and where the wideband O2 sensor is positioned. I've sent him off all the info he requested and a photo of where the O2 is located. We'll see what come out of this but what he is saying makes sense. The O2 sensor is possibly seeing gas that has already past it and is mixing with the freshly exhausted charge and affecting the reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer HighSideNZ Posted October 24, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted October 24, 2014 Just an update on the My Tuning Bike and RB Racing. Yaman got back to me and advised that I should zero out the map and do about 100 miles and see how it goes from there so I did the following this morning. I went back to the factory supplied map and zeroed out all the low end cells, up to about 6000 rpm Went for a 200km ride and at about 100km checked the correction map. It was pretty big in some places and there were lots of corrections as you would expect. Saved the corrections in and kept riding. At another 60km I did the same thing. Then at the 200km point did a final check and added the corrections. At this point I turned off MTB with the map switch and rode home thru traffic and all the normal situations where surging is a problem if it occurs. It was great. No problems at all. Overall it is just sooo smooth. Give it a good run up to red line a very times and the corrections up top were not all that great but the bike pulls so well. One happy camper! So my thinking on using the map I made for the RB3 was a pretty stupid idea in hindsight. Just let the MTB build the map for you. I think the key is a good long ride and let it sort itself out early on. Make sure you have a very varied ride pattern so as it "sees" all of the variables involved with your road riding style. Phil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Before and after Rapid Bike racing dynos of a 100% stock 2003 VFR800, tuned using the 2 factory narrowband o2 sensors. Keep in mind that this is with no other mods, not even a slip on or air filter. The improvements should be much greater on modified bikes or in the case of tuning each cylinder independently with four o2 sensors. That is before and after at 100%, 23% and 13% throttle positions. On the 13% throttle you can see the dramatic breakdown of just fuel corrections alone and then the added benefit of tuning the ignition map on top of the fuel map. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Mohawk Posted October 24, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted October 24, 2014 Interesting info Phil, hope to get mine out tomorrow to see how it goes & what i can do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Here you can see the advantages of having four separate wide band o2 sensors and individually tuning each cylinder. Notice the different fueling demands of each cylinder by wide open throttle and red line. I have put about fifty miles on the bike since installing the four o2 sensors. I can not emphasize just how unbelievably smooth the bike is now. The VTEC transition has literally disappeared. It is now just a change in tone and there is no dip or surge in power what so ever now. I have only put an hour or so of seat time on the bike to allow self tuning and I can say right now for a fact that I have never felt a bike this smooth with such a linear power band before in my life. Being that I still have not even swapped the new injectors/throttle bodies or ever even synced the stock throttle bodies or adjusted the valves etc yet and I have 61,000 miles on the bike now is just mind blowing. I can not wait to get the new injectors and throttle bodies on here and then sync those and let it tune for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 So over the last 24 hours I fitted the overbore throttle bodies and boots and port matched the heads to them. Here ate my updated maps. It is up about 20% more fuel everywhere over my last map that had been made the day before. I would ignore the 0% column. I need to sync the new throttle bodies pretty bad so the 0-4% fueling is off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TampaDave Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Question re auto-adaptive feature: what's the AFR target? Can it be user-specified? Per cell? --------- Does the bypass adapter work with the Evo? ---------- Does the Evo take a switch, to either switch maps or to turn auto-adaptive on/off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RapidBikeUSA Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 Question re auto-adaptive feature: what's the AFR target? Can it be user-specified? Per cell? defult is 13.2:1 and yes it can be changed but it changes the entire map AFR values, Should you change it? NO, unless you are on the dyno machine and know what you are doing with the software :) if different afr is needed for different areas , The my tuning bike will help you with that. --------- Does the bypass adapter work with the Evo? Yes it does. ---------- Does the Evo take a switch, to either switch maps or to turn auto-adaptive on/off? Yes and map switch will switch between maps not turn it off. However if you have my tuning bike installed, the map switch becomes an on/off switch but I will program and EVO module and see what the map switch does later on, I'll get back to you on this question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Mohawk Posted December 2, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted December 2, 2014 Hey CR any update on your 4 O2 sensor setup & any dyno results ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) No dyno results yet. This is finals week at school. I'll have more time to mess around with stuff in a few weeks. But, I have ironed out all the kinks since installing the over bore throttlebodies. And the bike is running supper effing smooth right now. Zero surging. 0%-10% throttle is finally perfect. And the VTEC transition is only perceivable through sound. No holes or peaks anywhere in the power band. Starts first time. High idles like a champ and settles down by 150F. I am really happy with the out come. But I do want to verify the results just as much as you guys. So I'll try to get it on the dyno and verify the a/f ratios for all individual cylinders through the rev and throttle ranges. I can say that my idea of setting everything plus 20% after fitting the overbore throttle bodies was a bad idea and was a major set back. The throttlebodies are not as much of a bottle neck as I was hoping they would be. Well at least with stock heads and cams. I am sure they will benefit greatly with port and polished heads with big cams. Edited December 2, 2014 by CandyRedRC46 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer badelman Posted December 7, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted December 7, 2014 All, I just got the race module and installed it. Check out my pic loaded post here: http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/79871-rapid-bike-install-for-6th-gen-ooh-goodies/?p=978510 Or here! Super excited to get this going! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted December 14, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted December 14, 2014 Anybody done a dyno run yet ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer badelman Posted December 16, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted December 16, 2014 Not yet but I have a copy/paste from some dialogue between myself/Candy and Yaman that may be interesting.. If this is old news than I'll apologize now but if not..... FYI.. Yaman says the module doesn't collect data at idle. Candy/nor I saw very little suggested change above 20% throttle open and both had some concerns (in regards to reviewing my initial maps after riding 230-270 miles).. In response to this: He (Yaman) goes on to say that the module may need more time at the RPM's not gaining the additional mapping data for longer periods (where I/we don't see many suggestions at present on the map under Auto Adaptivity. Example: I will throw the throttle wide open and blow past 10,000 rpm and then change into say 2nd gear and so on.. Yaman says that the module needs more time than just a second to see the bike at 10k before it suggests a modification. If I understood him right... I take this to mean that I should hit the tollway (or any long safe road since I'm not on a track as of now) instead of hot dogging through the gears in order to spend more time at specific rpm's for RBM to get more sample time at each snapshot point (RPMs) for the module to make recommendations. Yaman says "correct" to the above example.. Criticism? Thoughts? Oh.. BTW.. the Engine Braking feature ROCKS! I have it enabled at 40% and can tell a huge difference already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 taller gears are your friend..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Mohawk Posted December 18, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted December 18, 2014 Well I guess the system needs some steady state throttle positions to make measurements then suggest adjustments. I have seen similar issues, but more rev related than TPS. As in it does not appear to make any suggested changes above 7Krpm.Even though I have done some short runs in 1st or 2nd at high revs to give it a steady throttle state. It may require a couple of tanks on a dyno to allow a set RPM at a set TPS position, to get some real adjustments. But in the end if the bike runs OK, then why bother. Gonna have to wait till spring now, as the roads here are cold, wet & salty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiff Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Hey I noticed the harness is nowhere to be found, or am I just blind? Planned to order this setup sooner, but got smacked in the face by some emergency bills :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Well I guess the system needs some steady state throttle positions to make measurements then suggest adjustments. I have seen similar issues, but more rev related than TPS. As in it does not appear to make any suggested changes above 7Krpm.Even though I have done some short runs in 1st or 2nd at high revs to give it a steady throttle state. It may require a couple of tanks on a dyno to allow a set RPM at a set TPS position, to get some real adjustments. But in the end if the bike runs OK, then why bother. Gonna have to wait till spring now, as the roads here are cold, wet & salty. I am not sure what you mean by short runs at high revs, but taller gears and highway pulls will net the best results. Hey I noticed the harness is nowhere to be found, or am I just blind? Planned to order this setup sooner, but got smacked in the face by some emergency bills :( The group buy (separate harness and modules) has been over for a while. Here is the whole kit: http://rapidbike.us/products/rb-racing-honda-vfr800-02-09 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer carlgustav Posted December 24, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted December 24, 2014 Have had my harness from the group buy, just pulled the trigger on the 'race' module ... anything I should know about the mapping (ign/fuel) that comes with the unit, anything to watch for? I'll be pulling the PCIII out, and I guess putting the oxy sensors back in place?, before firing this unit up ... TIA, ACE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiff Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 The group buy (separate harness and modules) has been over for a while. Here is the whole kit: Nope, that's what I needed, I just had it in my mind that the harness was separate. Thanks! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Mohawk Posted December 24, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted December 24, 2014 Hey, CR what I meant, was for it to measure the O2 at high revs the bike must be at those high revs. Not sure of the speeding laws in Florida, but I can get a few minutes at 100mph, but that is not high revs. So as we don't have a gear indicator, as an aside a bit pissed the unit does not work out gears like the digital gear displays, i.e. Bike starts at idle, then first, burst of revs then revs set back as 2nd goes in etc ! Not a lot of programming ! But moving on. The only way to let the O2 sensors see high RPM fuelling is by running high rpm in the lower gears thus at lower almost legal speeds to get fuel readings, but having done that on the last 2 runs I have NOT seen any fuel adjustment suggestions above 7k RPM. Likewise looking at some of the Ducati forum posts on this unit, they don't seem to compensate at higher RPM based on the standard O2 sensors ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 Have had my harness from the group buy, just pulled the trigger on the 'race' module ... anything I should know about the mapping (ign/fuel) that comes with the unit, anything to watch for? I'll be pulling the PCIII out, and I guess putting the oxy sensors back in place?, before firing this unit up ... TIA, ACE The ignition and fueling mapping is pretty much spot on. So I would set the maximum allowable changes at +/-5%. Plug your factory o2 sensors back into the headers and piggy back the rapid bike in between. Then ride around for at least 200 miles before applying corrections. Try to emphasize high way miles with some good high load pulls. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted January 7, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted January 7, 2015 Yaman, or perhaps CRRC or another resident expert can answer this question... Can a single MTB sensor, or possibly 2 MTB be used to tune all four cylinders individually by collecting data then moving the sensor(s) to a different header primary and programming the RapidBike Race to "see" the sensor on the different cylinder(s) and collect a new data set? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 No, I talked to Yaman about this already. The rapid bike evo and racing come defaulted for 2 narrow band factory sensors (left bank and right bank). Then if you use my tuning bike, you must select to run 1, 2 or 4 wide band o2 sensor mode. All the o2 sensors piggy back into each other, so if you want to run 4 wide band o2 sensor mode (where you can tune each cylinder individually) the rapid bike needs to be able to recognize that all four MTB's are present. Trust me I wanted to do it this way, because buying 4 MTB's was expensive, but even if you could tune one at a time, it would take forever and as you tuned one cylinder to be optimal the other three would indirectly be tuning to be less optimal. You would be running around in circles forever.... Honestly I would be more than happy to give you guys my map to save you the money and trouble, but I have a full race header and over bore throttle bodies so my tuning is wayyyy off. But I will be more than happy to lend a hand and tuning advice :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Mohawk Posted January 8, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted January 8, 2015 Just had a software update from the system checker on PC. No idea what was added or upgraded, anyone know ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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