Throttle Opening

[Guest buzzmo]

Hey guys, new here and new to motorcycles. Took the riding course in June and bought a really cheap Ninja 250 to learn on. Lasted 2 months before the transmission gave out, and last weekend finally bought a real bike - new VFR800. I've been practicing as much as I can on it, but I have one question - the transition from fully closed throttle to slightly open - how do you smooth that out?? For example, I'm in 3rd and slowing down so I close the throttle. Then it's time to accelerate, so I start getting on the throttle - there is always a slight jerk, then it's smooth as butter. Is it just something I need to get used to? Or do I need to adjust something? I want to make sure I'm not doing anything wrong, and this bike is so smooth otherwise! Help a newb out, thanks!

[gswanson]

Two things mechanical you can look at. First is the amount of play (slack) in the throttle cables. They can be adjusted to eliminate the excessive play that newly delivered bikes seem to always have. The second is chain adjustment. If the chain is too loose it will cause the jerk you describe on the transition from engine braking to acceleration. Also, just be smooth with the right wrist.

Post up some pics of the new bike.

[Switchblade]

^^^ And Welcome !!!

[Guest]

ok, I found the throttle play should be 2-6mm. I have no clue how to measure that reliably, but I tightened it up with the wheel straight so there is just a little play. But now when I turn it to the right, there is absolutely no play. Is that right, or did I overtighten it? Sorry for the simple questions, but I'm learning...

[FJ12Ryder]

You may have overtightened. You should have enough play so that you know it won't be pulling the throttle open when you turn the bars full lock. Put it on the centerstand, start the engine, and turn the bars lock to lock. There should be no increase in rpm. Even just a tiny bit is too much.

Welcome.

[TNRabbit]

Welcome! The throttle snatch you're experiencing is common on this bike. You can help it somewhat by doing the PAIR valve blockoff (search). Also, you'll naturally get better at managing it as you gain seat time....

[OutlawsJustice]

Work on your throttle control, if you are not slowing to stop you really have no reason to shut the throttle off. Treat it like a dimmer switch on a house light, reduce it, but do not close it. Then you do not have a change from completly off to back on again. Problem solved. (This is the first step to what makes a rider smooth!)

[Mohawk]

Is that NEW as in Brand new or NEW as in to You ? If just new to you, then all of the above applies & if either then the throttle should be set to the MINIMUM slack that will let the bars go to full lock either side with NO throttle movement, i.e. the engine will not rev up by itself. 6mm of slack is half a throttle turn before anything happens, the manu's state this, so they can cut down build time at the factory. The dealers should set them up correctly, but they don't.

EFi equipped bikes, don't use the butterflies for idle, so when the throttle is opened the bike transitions sharply from idle circuit to main & this is what causes the snatch. It can be reduced by balancing the throttle bodies or starter valves as Honda call the idle circuit. Then learning that the first couple of mm of throttle action are critical to a good transition. If you open the throttle carelessly from closed, the switch from idle to main is a bit touch & go, so you get a pause/stumble from the engine, then the throttle has opened further than intended during the pause & the engine suddenly gets a big gulp of air & takes off much harder than you wanted & this is the snatch you feel. The only real way to avoid it is to improve your throttle control.

Most bikes used to have CV carbs & they lag behind your wrist & are auto compensating, plus the bike always uses the main throttle body for some air, so they don't suffer from the same gulp. Many 2-stroke bikes or smaller bikes just used a slide carb where the throttle actually pulls the slide up, on these if you whack open the bike stumbles, snatches, then usually practically dies as the fuel flow is unable to keep up with the sir flow you let in, same effect with EFi but for slightly different reasons. Also the EFi sends NO fuel to the engine when decellerating, as per your example, so when you open the throttle its not going from idle circuit to main, its going from NO fuel to whatever your wrist just asked for, but as the system monitors the butterfly (TPS) position, there is a very small delay before fuel is added & the butterfly can be well open by then = SNATCH.

[Switchblade]

New bike not good, just for fun start the bike and see if you can turn the throttle so as to set the rpm at 1500 rpm hold it, 2000rpm hold it ,2500rpm hold it , 3000rpm hold it,3500rpm hold it, 4000rpm hold it, 4500 rpm and hold it . Make sure the bike does not skip from 2500rpm to 3500rpm.

[raoufhakam]

all above is true,

but i may add that as you say you slow down on 3rd gear by shutting off the throttle , you might have slowed down that the RPM is just too low for this gear which will cause any bike to be a bit jerky until its back again on higher RPM.

for example, in my 5th gen '00 VFR800 if in 3rd gear i slow down below 3000 RPM = 45 km/h = 28 mph the bike feels a bit jerky

[OutlawsJustice]

In the end you can make all the adjustments you can, but if you do not control your wrist, you will always have a problem. Also if you are only slowing down and not stopping, there is no reason the close the throttle. Learn to use it properly and that will be the first lesson in learning to "Be Smooth"

[Guest]

I know it's a learning process, and I'm already much smoother with it. I didn't realize that you are not supposed to close the throttle unless coming to a stop, so I'm always aware of that, and just trying to maintain constant RPM. Biggest problem now is the crappy roads here - it's very hard to maintain the throttle when bumpy, but I'm sure it will come with practice :)

[raoufhakam]

reaching the point of actually "closing throttle" to decelerate probably mean your RPM is already too low for the corresponding speed you're on.

as everyone above mentioned, it mostly a matter or practice until you excell it.

one thing to note is that V-engines, (V-twin, V4, cruisers) seem to be a bit more twitchy or snappy with throttle than smoother inline-4 but once you get used to it, you'll love it and appreciate it (which is why i have sold all I-4 engine bikes i've had and kept V4 and a V-twin)

actually the VFR throttle is smoother on hard acceleration and more responsive to little opening/closing at high rpm than a similarly powered inline-4

[Guest]

Have just received the new 2014 VFR800FE. Very snatchy throttle response at low (under 40) speeds, pretty well regardless of gear choice. I have read a few posts before about the 800 having a snatchy throttle response. Is there an easy fix or is this Power Commander territory?

[Aimbot9000]

That sounds like a PC issue, they may have to be set super lean to pass emissions regulations.

[spud786]

3 to 5 mm on a dirt bike is good (2mm is too little), but on a street bike especially the vfr you want to be on the minimum side, closer to 2mm. Id say with your 3rd gear slow down and re acceleration, its rpm dependant and maybe a down shift to second may be in order, if below 3,000 rpm and if intend to accelerate at a strong pace.

[Rectaltronics]

I know it's a learning process, and I'm already much smoother with it. I didn't realize that you are not supposed to close the throttle unless coming to a stop, so I'm always aware of that, and just trying to maintain constant RPM. Biggest problem now is the crappy roads here - it's very hard to maintain the throttle when bumpy, but I'm sure it will come with practice :)

I have been riding for three decades and even I have trouble being smooth with the new VFR. The transition is abrupt and yes, bumps aggravate the issue. Taking in some cable slack helps but not enough.

I'm finding that I tend to get all pumped up in the hand/wrist/forearm in my desire to control it, which only makes it worse and will probably just aggravate my tendonitis, so my immediate recommendation is to try to relax.

I'm thinking that installation of a cam -type throttle cable reel might be a really good idea for this bike. It would make throttle actuation more progressive.

[spud786]

The reasoning for the reduced throttle slack, is so your wrist is actually in the early stages of throttle turn , where with 5 or 6 mm of slack, your wrist position is already near half throttle, when dealing with initial throttle settings. Reducing the slack lessens the margin of error.

People that use the clutch as a tunable tool as much as the throttle in mc control, tend to have less issue, or a non issue. Its like riding a cr500 in the trees, you better have good clutch finesse . I think some bikes on top of being lean in the early throttle settings, may also have an issue, which compounds a lean issue in that area, even the earliest vtecs are 12 years old and many don't really get ridden enough to keep the cob webs out.

[Dedofnite]

Hey buzz,

Are you confused yet? Looking for a Motorcycle Mechanic School so you can learn how to adjust everything perfectly on your new bike? LOL !!!

Outlaw is right; you can adjust all you want, but in the end you are the one moving the controls. Jerky or smooth is what you do, not the bike. Outlaw said, " learn to control, be smooth". He is also an amazingly good rider and instructor, from what I hear. Expert level. You are, as you said, "new" to riding, and have to learn the basics if you want to get good at control and "smoothness".

Then Rectal, who has been riding for 30 years, chimes in and tells you, "try to relax". That's the best advice so far, but you are thinking, "how the hell can I relax if I have to hold onto the bike while it's jerking around with every control input, and I'm flopping around with every accel/decel of the bike ???!!!"

Very simple answer here, buzz. You are a beginner for a year or two, don't try to be a knee dragging, trail braking, tire sliding video star, just because someone says, "first, you have to learn to do... THIS! " And don't get me wrong, all those things will eventually help you stay safe out on the streets, but right now you need to practice the basic motor skills of learning to ride a motorcycle. So, go back to the vey simple technique you should have learned in the Rider Course for relaxing your hands so you can work the controls SMOOTHLY. (and if they did not teach you this in MSF class, you had lazy rider coaches who were just saying words, and not doing their job) If you practice this skill until you do it by reflex when you do control inputs, especially throttle, brake, and counter steering, you will very quickly solve your jerky problem and be able to relax.

Here it comes... Ready?

HOLD ON WITH YOUR LEGS.

That's it. Pull your knees in, squeeze the fuel tank, and tighten your core. That will allow you to relax your arms and hands and work the controls smoothly, because they don't have to try and hold your body in place on the bike! You will be amazed how well it works when you are learning!

Give that a try tomorrow, and let us know how it works. I wish you the best of luck with the new bike. Feel free to PM me if you have questions.

Ded

[Switchblade]

It took me a couple months to use the FI throttle . There is a small area of input with hand that makes a big change in r.p.m. BUT the good thing is when ride a lot the twisties like I do a little input is all you need.

[Rectaltronics]

HOLD ON WITH YOUR LEGS.

Ayup! And be mindful of posture in general. You'll handle the bike better overall and your body will thank you too!

[OutlawsJustice]

Outlaw is right; you can adjust all you want, but in the end you are the one moving the controls. Jerky or smooth is what you do, not the bike. Outlaw said, " learn to control, be smooth". you have to learn the basics if you want to get good at control and "smoothness".

"try to relax". That's the best advice so far, but your are thinking, "how the hell can I relax if I have to hold onto the bike while it's jerking around with every control input, and I'm flopping around with every accel/decel of the bike ???!!!"

Learning the Basics and Being smooth is not just physical, it is also mental. Yes, first you have to relax, that is part of the menatl process of learning to ride and needs to be done or nothing else will work. You have to get past the fears, learn to trust, htere is a process for this as well.

Being smooth is about application of the controls, yes, throttle, brakes and steering. It also includes your movement on the bike and other stuff, but here we are talking about the throttle. You do not have to ride for years or fast to learn to relax and be smooth, in fact if you learn it first, everything else will come easier and your riding will be more enjoyable.

Once you learn the mental aspects, mastering the physical ones will be much easier, once you learn to master the controls you can then work on your movements on the bike.