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More On Trail Braking


OutlawsJustice

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I teach trail braking as part of the Total Control program. I also receive the news letter from Penguin racing as I have attended their program a couple times and plan to again. This article is from the most recent news letter (re-posted with permission see note at the bottom)

Riding Series 7.5 - Make the pads touch the rotors

This installment focuses on a tip for corner entry that is both easy to implement and a big difference maker for many riders. One of the most important contributors to rider confidence is to have a motorcycle that is completely predictable on corner entrance. One simple way that riders can help this happen is to stabilize the front end using trail braking. However, many riders are afriad to trail brake because they are unsure of if they have enough traction to brake during the turn in process. We have found a simple solution for getting riders started on this path....please read on for more details.

It is often the case that the very same strategies used by top racers to maximize speed also can be applied by track day riders and Amateur racers to ride more safely. Trail braking is a prime example of one of those principles. Top riders brake right up to the moment of their major bar input, using the front brake to both set entrance speed and steer the motorcycle. Riders who are developing their skills often feel safest doing all of their braking while straight up and down and then fully releasing the brake lever as the motorcycle begins to lean. Unfortunately, this practice often causes several problems on corner entry.

The average motorcycle these days has about 120mm worth of front suspension travel. When the brakes are fully released, the suspension extends and rides high in the travel. The absence of brake lever input allows the front end to essentially "float" and react with a lot of amplitude to every input (bumps, rider weight shifts, etc...). When riders trail brake, even with very light pressure, the forks not only ride lower in the travel (making turn in effort easier) but they also react less severly to every input. The "preloading" of the front fork with lever input puts downward pressure on the front end, decreasing the unsettling motion of the forks at the top of the stroke.

The question that always follows after explaining the benefits of trail braking is "How much trail braking is OK?". The answer in an ideal world is that riders should trail brake and set their entrance speed with every bit of traction available. The challenge with this is that it takes excellent body position and perfectly soft arms and hands to feel the precise feedback needed to brake at this level. However, all riders can benefit from a stabilizing effect in corner entrances by simply applying the lever enough to just cause "the pads to contact the rotors".

This concept is an ideal starting point for riders at all levels to develop the habit of trail braking. Applying just enough pressure to make "the pads touch the rotors" will stabilize the front end, decrease the motion of the forks, lower the amount of bar effort needed to turn in, and greatly increase your sense of control. As an added bonus, you will slow down an extra couple MPH at the end of the braking zone and eventually be able to safely move your brake marker forward. All you have to to is keep those pads just touching the rotors when carving into a corner, and you'll find an immediate improvement in the handling of your bike on both the street and the track.

Until next time - ride fast, ride safe!

Copyright 2014, The Penguin Racing School Inc. This material is intended strictly for Penguin Racing School newsletter subscribers and may not be copied, reproduced or distributed without the express written consent of The Penguin Racing School Inc.

This article was copied with permission from the Penguin Racing School newsletter. Penguin operates the nation's oldest motorcycle track school and has classes for both racers and street riders. For more information please visit www.penguinracing.com."

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By coincidence I've been practicing trail braking lately. Thanks for posting.

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Me too, Duc! (that's how I keep from hitting you in the corners... :tour: ) ( Oh, yeah, and the throttle is on the right! ) :laughing6-hehe:

Ded

:dry: Just kidding! You're almost too fast for me to ride with anymore!

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I practice trail braking every time I ride. ..

You too?

It's not appropriate for all situations, but it is an essential skill to have in the toolbox.

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Being a "front-end" orientated rider trail braking is something I have naturally always done. Oddly enough every bike that I have owned that came from the factory with linked brakes (Moto Guzzis & Hondas) had the the brakes delinked by the PO's. If the aim of trail braking is to load the front tyre & suspension on corner entry to apex as described in the in the opening post does it work with a linked brake system that introduces rear brake with the front lever?

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Df,

The LBS seems to work fine on the Blackbird, at least on the street, where I am not spinning the rear wheel. If anything, it forces a little more counter steer input, partly due to the bike's weight, I think. On the track it may be a detriment where you are trying to slide both ends, but in street situations the bike just squats and sticks. I always avoided the rear brake in corners on the CBR600RR. That thing would swap ends in an instant, so I used front only. I have had no indication of that on the XX.

Ded

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Df,

The LBS seems to work fine... in street situations the bike just squats and sticks...

Ded

+1 ^^^

And under hard braking approaching turn in the rear tire chirps on surface bumps as it is approaching lift off... works as a nice audible input of the amount of rear grip available

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I don't know if it's a no-no but I use the rear brake with light pressure after I use the front for the majority of the braking

That pedal is there for reason

I find that under hard straight line braking, like what I mentioned earlier, I use the back brake initially but trail off as the back wheel gets light...keep in mind, as I reduce pedal pressure I increase lever pressure to maintain front braking level bc of the linked brakes...

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I practice trail braking every time I ride. ..

You too?

It's not appropriate for all situations, but it is an essential skill to have in the toolbox.

There is a little bit said here and you may explain that you mean something different from what I read (I hope I am misunderstanding you) but I disagree with this statement.

If you are not trail braking into a turn and find that you need you need to then it probably too late to open the tool box and select this tool.

On the track you trail brake into every turn because it is the fastest way around the track.

On the street you do it because you don't know what (or who) is in the road around the corner and it settles the suspension while reducing the reaction time to respond to whatever "surprise" you may come upon.

Not necessary if you can see through the turn and know that the road is clear and clean of debris and you set your entry speed with engine braking but I still do it then.

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I practice trail braking every time I ride. ..

You too?

It's not appropriate for all situations, but it is an essential skill to have in the toolbox.

There is a little bit said here and you may explain that you mean something different from what I read (I hope I am misunderstanding you) but I disagree with this statement.

If you are not trail braking into a turn and find that you need you need to then it probably too late to open the tool box and select this tool.

On the track you trail brake into every turn because it is the fastest way around the track.

On the street you do it because you don't know what (or who) is in the road around the corner and it settles the suspension while reducing the reaction time to respond to whatever "surprise" you may come upon.

Not necessary if you can see through the turn and know that the road is clear and clean of debris and you set your entry speed with engine braking but I still do it then.

Well that depends on what, and where you are riding.

If you are riding a bike that's properly set up for you on a smooth road that's all good. If you are riding a bike that's set up for someone else i.e. lighter or a stock bike with mushy suspension you will want to get most of your braking done before turn-in so you can get on the throttle sooner to gain some travel & clearance. This also applies on a bike that's set up for you if you tend to like goaty roads like me.

This in addition to the concept of throttle steering which is another matter entirely, and doesn't always work well on iffy surfaces though often it can be just the ticket.

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  • 2 weeks later...
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That's just a controlled crash...over and over and over again...till he's 2.3 sec ahead of everyone else...

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Yesterday they showed a close up of VR, JL and MM right hand while braking. In this instance, VR used 3 fingers, JL used 2 fingers and MM was using 1. Pretty amazing to watch.

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Yesterday they showed a close up of VR, JL and MM right hand while braking. In this instance, VR used 3 fingers, JL used 2 fingers and MM was using 1. Pretty amazing to watch.

They also talk about his body position on the bike in a curve..

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  • 2 months later...
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this brings into play the amount of riders (not dissin' any one particular genre of rider---inline riders specifically) :comp13:

They can't figure out how VFR riders are passing them heading into a corner, and pulling away from them faster than they can get out of their own way.

Especially on a 20+ year old bike.. I tell them late braking & trail braking and they are confused. :unsure:

How often, honestly, do you REALLY pay attention to whether or not you're trail braking?

For most of us that do it, it's second nature for long enough to not realize it's happening.

LOL it's only when you realize you're doing it, that you hold longer and stand the bike up mid corner ha haa :ohmy:

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How often, honestly, do you REALLY pay attention to whether or not you're trail braking?

For most of us that do it, it's second nature for long enough to not realize it's happening.

Many are trail braking before they know what it's called. As far as the comment about a bike properly being set up, that always seemed a moderate improvement after years of just adjusting my style to whatever bike I'm riding and knowing nothing about suspension. Most of our bikes are under sprung from the factory anyway.

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I'm a big poussy on the street. For me If I braked as deep as I did during track days I would have little time or margin to deal with gravel , asquirrells, deer, change from asphalt to gravel, dump/coal trucks halfway in my lane and drunks. Maybe on the Dragon...when I overcook one, but then I'm basically racing when there's no checkered flag. My frisky street pace is still 15% to 20% off my track day pace...which is fine for me and not so fine for law enforcement...a happy detant so to speak.

Matt

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How often, honestly, do you REALLY pay attention to whether or not you're trail braking?

For most of us that do it, it's second nature for long enough to not realize it's happening.

Many are trail braking before they know what it's called. As far as the comment about a bike properly being set up, that always seemed a moderate improvement after years of just adjusting my style to whatever bike I'm riding and knowing nothing about suspension. Most of our bikes are under sprung from the factory anyway.

I am not so sure about this, What I find when teaching is that most people dont really even know what trail braking really is.

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I am not so sure about this, What I find when teaching is that most people dont really even know what trail braking really is.

Your experience teaching people certainly goes beyond mine, so you're probably right. My frame of reference in that comment is from myself and long time friends who live in the mountains and have been ridding unpredictable Appalachian roads for many years. Constantly riding those types of roads at a competent level, many will figure out trail braking on their own. (if "trail braking" = continue to apply brakes after the turn in point and gradually decreasing pressure as you increase lean angle) To your point, in other conversations where people discuss trail braking, they make it sound more complex and it feels like we're speaking two different languages. Maybe it's me who doesn't know what trail braking really is.

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I have many years of riding under my belt and heard the term many times. I am sure I have done this without even knowing it. Remember how many times we heard "don't brake in the corner" "get all your braking done before the corner" At times it sounds a bit like the eggs are bad for you one week then they are good for you the next.

It actually annoyed me that an article or a conversation can be started and NOT ONE clear definition of what "trail braking" is. Rear brake? Front brake? Either? sounds at times like a trendy phrase for "breaking" I have been "breaking" since I started riding. Don't mean to upset the apple cart but...IMO thats my take.

Define a term before it is discussed. "Pads touching the rotors" is not a definition.

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How often, honestly, do you REALLY pay attention to whether or not you're trail braking?

For most of us that do it, it's second nature for long enough to not realize it's happening.

Many are trail braking before they know what it's called. As far as the comment about a bike properly being set up, that always seemed a moderate improvement after years of just adjusting my style to whatever bike I'm riding and knowing nothing about suspension. Most of our bikes are under sprung from the factory anyway.

I am not so sure about this, What I find when teaching is that most people dont really even know what trail braking really is.

I've been involved in, and had many a numerous discussion about this. So many opinions on it, and variations of what it entails, who's right/wrong? Some conversations about 'trail braking', sound more like pissing contests, depending on the current crowd. < I should note this last thought is a street riding group with no track or training experience.

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