vtwindr Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I keep reading threads on here stating the VFR800F is only 96bhp. Honda quote 77.9KW= 104.5 bhp at 10,250 rpm just sayin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer thor294 Posted July 22, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted July 22, 2014 motor cyclist says 94.3 hp @ 10k RPM and 52.3 @ 8400RPM lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cug Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Rear wheel vs. crank. Manufacturer numbers are crank numbers, there is quite some loss in the whole drive train. Some bikes are closer to manufacturer numbers and some manufacturers are a more conservative than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer thor294 Posted July 22, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted July 22, 2014 Rear wheel vs. crank. Manufacturer numbers are crank numbers, there is quite some loss in the whole drive train. Some bikes are closer to manufacturer numbers and some manufacturers are a more conservative than others. yup +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted July 22, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted July 22, 2014 Rear wheel vs. crank. Manufacturer numbers are crank numbers, there is quite some loss in the whole drive train. Some bikes are closer to manufacturer numbers and some manufacturers are a more conservative than others. Exactly..... And one guy says this & the other says that...... There can be % error from one dyno to the next. Real comparisons need to be on the same dyno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer thor294 Posted July 22, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted July 22, 2014 Rear wheel vs. crank. Manufacturer numbers are crank numbers, there is quite some loss in the whole drive train. Some bikes are closer to manufacturer numbers and some manufacturers are a more conservative than others. Exactly..... And one guy says this & the other says that...... There can be % error from one dyno to the next. Real comparisons need to be on the same dyno. yup. my local dealer has a dyno that I put my 86 on that made 90hp... I am hoping that when they get a new VFR they will be willing to do it............ but probably not lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogman Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Rear wheel vs. crank. Manufacturer numbers are crank numbers, there is quite some loss in the whole drive train. Some bikes are closer to manufacturer numbers and some manufacturers are a more conservative than others. Exactly..... And one guy says this & the other says that...... There can be % error from one dyno to the next. Real comparisons need to be on the same dyno. yup. my local dealer has a dyno that I put my 86 on that made 90hp... I am hoping that when they get a new VFR they will be willing to do it............ but probably not lol IMHO if you expect your dealer to put a brand new not run in bike on a dyno and then sell it to someone as a new bike you are likely to be disappointed..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epyon007 Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Why not? They are dyno'd at the factory before they are sent off to the dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Yep, every new bike Ive seen on the floor, you can tell by the worn rear tire its been on a dyno? LOL!!! I'm sure the motor itself is ran for QA before installed in the bike, but the bike actually being dyno'd , never heard of such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Rear wheel vs. crank. Manufacturer numbers are crank numbers, there is quite some loss in the whole drive train. Some bikes are closer to manufacturer numbers and some manufacturers are a more conservative than others. Exactly..... And one guy says this & the other says that...... There can be % error from one dyno to the next. Real comparisons need to be on the same dyno. yup. my local dealer has a dyno that I put my 86 on that made 90hp... I am hoping that when they get a new VFR they will be willing to do it............ but probably not lol amazing 1986 90hp---- only 10 more hp and 13k for the new one- brain dead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cug Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 amazing 1986 90hp---- only 10 more hp and 13k for the new one- brain dead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer VFROZ Posted July 23, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted July 23, 2014 Rear wheel vs. crank. Manufacturer numbers are crank numbers, there is quite some loss in the whole drive train. Some bikes are closer to manufacturer numbers and some manufacturers are a more conservative than others.Exactly..... And one guy says this & the other says that...... There can be % error from one dyno to the next. Real comparisons need to be on the same dyno. yup. my local dealer has a dyno that I put my 86 on that made 90hp... I am hoping that when they get a new VFR they will be willing to do it............ but probably not lol amazing 1986 90hp---- only 10 more hp and 13k for the new one- brain dead When the CBR1000F came out in 1988, it was the fastest production bike ever built. It had 130HP, and was the first production bike to break 100HP at the rear wheel. I bought one and was blown away at how fast it was. My 2001 VFR feels faster up to 180kh. I took the CBR to 255kh and it had more in reserve. I've never had the VFR over 200kh and probably never will unless I do track days. There is power, and there is power I think the VFR's power is more usable in the real world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHvar Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 According to the french magazine Moto Station which dyno'd the VFR800F, BMW F 800 GT, and Kawasaki Z1000 SX, here are the results. Power and torque readings to the crankshaft (CE95 / 1 standard): BMW F 800 GT (blue curves): 97 hp at 8193 rev / min, 9.5 kgm at 5728 rev / min Honda VFR 800 F (green curves): 113 hp at 10,589 rev / min, 8.2 mkg at 8761 r / min Power and torque returned to the wheel: BMW F 800 GT (blue curves): 89 hp at 8193 rev / min, 8.8 kgm at 5728 rev / min Honda VFR 800 F (green curves): 103 hp at 10,589 rev / min, 7.6 mkg at 8761 r / min Read more at http://www.moto-station.com/article17244-p2-bmw-f-800-gt-vs-honda-vfr-800-f-pour-deux-cylindres-de-plus.html#jtcDSd6tBbiZUKfA.99 Power and torque readings to the crankshaft (CE95 / 1 standard): Honda VFR 800 F (green curves): 113 hp at 10,589 rev / min, 8.2 kgm at 8761 rev / min Kawasaki Z 1000 SX (red curves): 116 hp at 9,474 rev / min, 10.2 mkg at 7181 r / min Power and torque returned to the wheel: Honda VFR 800 F (green curves): 103 hp at 10,589 rev / min, 7.6 kgm at 8761 rev / min Kawasaki Z 1000 SX (red curves): 106 hp at 9,474 rev / min, 9.3 mkg at 7181 r / min Read more at http://www.moto-station.com/article17243-p3-honda-vfr-800-f-vs-kawasaki-z-1000-sx-le-grand-tourisme-sportif-a-t-il-de-l_avenir-.html#cpjdgksA43zGd3EB.99 Quite a big difference from Kawasaki's claim of .... Max power 140 bhp Max torque 82 ft-lb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vtwindr Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 I wonder if they had the Kwak running on full power with traction control set to off?? T/C on my versys 1000 (3 modes) did make the bike more sluggish depending on which mode you were in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfh Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 According to the french magazine Moto Station Power and torque readings to the crankshaft (CE95 / 1 standard): Honda VFR 800 F (green curves): 113 hp at 10,589 rev / min, 8.2 kgm at 8761 rev / min Kawasaki Z 1000 SX (red curves): 116 hp at 9,474 rev / min, 10.2 mkg at 7181 r / min Power and torque returned to the wheel: Honda VFR 800 F (green curves): 103 hp at 10,589 rev / min, 7.6 kgm at 8761 rev / min Kawasaki Z 1000 SX (red curves): 106 hp at 9,474 rev / min, 9.3 mkg at 7181 r / min Read more at http://www.moto-station.com/article17243-p3-honda-vfr-800-f-vs-kawasaki-z-1000-sx-le-grand-tourisme-sportif-a-t-il-de-l_avenir-.html#cpjdgksA43zGd3EB.99 Quite a big difference from Kawasaki's claim of ....Max power 140 bhp Max torque 82 ft-lb Remember that in France all bikes are capped at an actual rear wheel 100ps limit (with fudge factor) so the the Z1000SX is detuned for sale in that market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHvar Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I recently read an article about how so many bikes are exaggerated in their HP output, they gave a huge list by manufacturers and years, amazing how shockingly close so many bikes actually performed at the rear wheel when tested on the same dyno regardless of what model and engine from liter bikes, to sport touring bikes, to 600s, regardless of their claimed power outputs. I have gone in the past to a local dyno shootout a few times and was shocked by how certain bikes actually performed, certain models side by side how greatly 2 almost identical bikes varied so much. I saw an example of 2 GSXR 750s, Both owned by good friends who ride regularly together, both switch bikes regularly and could not tell a difference in the performance of them, both identical mods, both bought in the same dealership around the same time. One bike made 114 hp, one made 77 hp. I saw some of what they mentioned in that article, I saw 1000 cc V-twins, 750cc in line 4s,1000 cc inline 4s, and 2 VFR800s all very close (give or take a few HP) or right round the 100 hp mark consistently. One shootout years back on the list I noticed there were alot of GSXR 600s, probably just shy of half of the 600s present, the HP figures ranged among that category from 65-98 hp. Its funny so many comments among people there with yamahas, suzukis, ducatis, etc etc about Hondas, I had the only CBR600 there and got 3rd in the 600 class that day (BMC air filter, rejetted, and Micron slip on, 94.5 hp), one modified R6 (with 95.5 hp) and one ZX-6R with 98 hp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfh Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I recently read an article about how so many bikes are exaggerated in their HP output, they gave a huge list by manufacturers and years, amazing how shockingly close so many bikes actually performed at the rear wheel when tested on the same dyno regardless of what model and engine from liter bikes, to sport touring bikes, to 600s, regardless of their claimed power outputs. Frankly that seems absurd. Link to article please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHvar Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Ill try to find it again, it was one of those I found while searching for something else. That article seemed to be using factory pros dyno numbers (their website has very similar results) which read somewhat lower to noticeably lower than dynojets. Of course there are certain bikes that obviously read much higher on the list, but the amount of bikes regardless of engine size, etc and cycle model that all made similar HP readings is pretty amazing (around the 100 HP mark, give or take (90-109). Made me think about the response here concerning the french available bikes being limited in output when I read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted July 26, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted July 26, 2014 German bike magazine Motorrad Measurenent at crank on a Dynojet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Here's the thing.... Almost all modern sport bikes have ram air induction, and most will have individual mapping by gear. So first gear will not have much compensation, but 4th (where a dyno pull is made) will have a decent amount of fueling/ignition compensation for the added ram air. This is why dyno tuning and print out, may not always correct. (Among many other factors). Road tuning with map by gear is the way to go. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilprofessore Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Concerning the result of Moto Station, please be aware that in France there is the limitation of 100 hp. This is the reason why the Z1000SX hax only 116 hjp at hshaft, quite similar to VFR 800. Even the VFR 1200 has only 100 hp (engine cut-off at about 7000 rpm). Club Racer has already explained this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfh Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Here's the thing.... Almost all modern sport bikes have ram air induction, and most will have individual mapping by gear. So first gear will not have much compensation, but 4th (where a dyno pull is made) will have a decent amount of fueling/ignition compensation for the added ram air. This is why dyno tuning and print out, may not always correct. (Among many other factors). Road tuning with map by gear is the way to go. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Most modern bikes don't. VFR's don't, neither do Z1000sx/Ninja 1000's. Most modern bikes do however have an air box pressure sensor & O2 sensors, so the idea that the fuelling on the dyno is somewhat off the mark is wrong. Kevin Cameron had some figures in one of his books that showed the ram air was a minor gain ( but significant in a race track environment where split seconds matter) at very high speeds. On a road bike however…... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Read what you quoted. "Most modern SPORT bikes" and by "most" I mean about 99% of them. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_YZF-R6 http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_YZF-R1 Please go on about the negligible affects of ram air.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfh Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Read what you quoted. "Most modern SPORT bikes" and by "most" I mean about 99% of them. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_YZF-R6 http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_YZF-R1 Please go on about the negligible affects of ram air.... That is two bikes, hardly most. Ironic it is that on the charts you supplied a ram air assisted power figures are not listed from the 08 models onwards for either bike. Did they remove ram air from the later models or just the claims for its effectiveness? Notice that for the ram air assisted power figures no air velocity / road speed analogue figure at which the power measures were taken - something essential to specify if you are claiming a power boost from ram air induction. Irony can also be found in your choice of a manufactures "at the brochure" power figures in an attempt to support the validity of ram air power gains in a thread discussing the difference between the 8th Gens brochure power & what testers are finding in the rear world on a dyno. Fortunately the days of "colourful" ram air claims are over thank you EC homologation legislation, most manufactures now use the term "cold air induction" & have left the hyperbole in the cupboard. But my salient point remains. Most modern bikes are fitted with air box pressure sensors & oxygen sensors, amongst many others. So if there is a discrepancy between the road speed on the dyno drum & the air speed from the cooling fan pointed at the bike during the dyno run it will be of no consequence as the engine management system will accommodate it & continue to fuel it as they intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Really?? Really?? What is not computing with you here? The cbr600/1000 The R6/R1 The gsxr600/750/1000 The zx6r/zx10r The aprillia rsv4 The BMW s1000rr The Ducati 1199 That is basically every sport bike available at the moment. They all come factory fitted with ram air and the all benefit greatly from it. The only real sport bike that I can think of that does not is Eric buells new bike and I'm sure there is some specific engineering reason behind it. I can't tell if you are just trolling or you are dense. Yes a lot of modern motorcycles have manifold absolute pressure sensors and yes some even come with o2 sensors as well, but not all motorcycles are capable of using o2 sensors while under load, (as in our Vfr which only interprets the o2 signal while under light throttle and cruising scenarios). And not all map sensors are going to be capable of reading more than one bar of air pressure. If the factory engine management system was capable of delivering an ideal air fuel mixture and spark advance at all engine and road speeds the tuning industry would not exist and dynos would become obsolete. But in reality the factory engine management system is not capable of doing this as it must be more concerned with passing emissions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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