Member Contributer Switchblade Posted July 9, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 9, 2015 Uh oh starting to get that I've lost that lovin feeling . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WackenSS Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I just can't stand this. I will just have to put my name on the list, as if that should make the wait any easier... i live in Norway and hope it does not cut my rotrex equipped -99 out of the loop. Any video of said bike? We really like video of supercharged VFR's. [/urlBoost on Everything needs boost! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer adeyren Posted July 13, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 13, 2015 Hi guys, been following this thread for ages and saw Motads name as a possible source. I went to the factory late last year and met the boss Ian before purchasing a full system. He seemed a nice guy so thought i would fire off an email on your behalf. Told him to contact Rush as a point of communication. Heres the email i sent. Hi Ian I came up to the factory late last year and purchased a full system from you and am pleased with it. Have you been following this thread on http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/page/index.html located at http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/78592-potential-re-release-of-two-brothers-racing-vfr800-headers/page-81#entry1004907. The guys on here are crying out for a large diameter set of performance headers for 5th and 6th Gen VFRs but various manufacturers do not seem to be interested. Motads name came up as a "possible" avenue of production. Seems like there are a lot of potential customers out there including myself. Anyway you can help? Best guy to PM is Rush2112. Many thanks Adrian Got a reply from Ian at Motad today, see below. "there is a perception that larger diameter pipes create more power- in fact in many cases larger pipes will reduce power as gas velocity is reduced- any large diameter system will need many hours of dyno development and testing. the other downside of larger diameter pipes when clearances are so tight- that almost certainly going to be a need to modify fairings etc etc thanks for asking but we will stay in our “niche” of offering a well price replacement for the original- I am sure that you are serious but in so many similar cases we have found that only a tiny proportion of interested customers are actually ready to buy (and take on the significant extra costs) Ian McD" Must admit that surprised me ie "in many cases larger pipes will reduce power".More learned members than me please comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted July 13, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 13, 2015 HRC didn't seem to find that larger diameter pipes were reducing power. I'm sure in the "cruiser" community there is the perception that bigger and louder is better with little or no regard for actual performance. Perhaps they are under the assumption that you are asking for larger diameter in the same vein as cruiser bigger is better and not in fact trying to emulate race proven technology. Just my $.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer HighSideNZ Posted July 13, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 13, 2015 Yes that is the case in many situations. If the gas speed drops, so does performance. You need a freer breathing engine overall to use larger header diameters. In saying that, I personally believe that the header diameters on the stock pipes are too small and could be increased by a couple of mm without causing too much harm and the pipes would then better suit gaining further HP from other breathing mods. I know with my endeavours that I am now running 38mm primaries, 44mm secondaries and 51mm tail pipes and making really good power out of my 825 (136 rwhp), BUT I have spent a lot on time on making the rest of the package breathe far better than stock. Pipes of those sizes, on a stock engine would probably go backwards in the HP stakes. My 2c worth. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted July 13, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 13, 2015 I just can't stand this. I will just have to put my name on the list, as if that should make the wait any easier... i live in Norway and hope it does not cut my rotrex equipped -99 out of the loop. Any video of said bike? We really like video of supercharged VFR's. [/urlBoost on Everything needs boost! Glad it did not have VTEC, you would have rip that dyno apart . Really enjoy that video and a lot of other members did too . Hi guys, been following this thread for ages and saw Motads name as a possible source. I went to the factory late last year and met the boss Ian before purchasing a full system. He seemed a nice guy so thought i would fire off an email on your behalf. Told him to contact Rush as a point of communication. Heres the email i sent. Hi Ian I came up to the factory late last year and purchased a full system from you and am pleased with it. Have you been following this thread on http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/page/index.html located at http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/78592-potential-re-release-of-two-brothers-racing-vfr800-headers/page-81#entry1004907. The guys on here are crying out for a large diameter set of performance headers for 5th and 6th Gen VFRs but various manufacturers do not seem to be interested. Motads name came up as a "possible" avenue of production. Seems like there are a lot of potential customers out there including myself. Anyway you can help? Best guy to PM is Rush2112. Many thanks Adrian Got a reply from Ian at Motad today, see below. "there is a perception that larger diameter pipes create more power- in fact in many cases larger pipes will reduce power as gas velocity is reduced- any large diameter system will need many hours of dyno development and testing. the other downside of larger diameter pipes when clearances are so tight- that almost certainly going to be a need to modify fairings etc etc thanks for asking but we will stay in our “niche” of offering a well price replacement for the original- I am sure that you are serious but in so many similar cases we have found that only a tiny proportion of interested customers are actually ready to buy (and take on the significant extra costs) Ian McD" Must admit that surprised me ie "in many cases larger pipes will reduce power".More learned members than me please comment. I have read the same thing in multiple forums about over sizing tube diameter on headers . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Mohawk Posted July 13, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 13, 2015 This website, http://sfriday.com/VFR800/pcii.htm shows that TBR headers add around 6-8hp on pretty much standard setup. The headers are 38mm IIRC. YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted July 13, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 13, 2015 This website, http://sfriday.com/VFR800/pcii.htm shows that TBR headers add around 6-8hp on pretty much standard setup. The headers are 38mm IIRC. YMMV Site no work for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer adeyren Posted July 13, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 13, 2015 mohawk, for some reason that link is "not found"? Switchblade can obviously type faster than me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Mohawk Posted July 13, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 13, 2015 Delete the garbage off the end of the URL and all will be revealed, trying again http://sfriday.com/VFR800/pcii.htm Works now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WackenSS Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I just can't stand this. I will just have to put my name on the list, as if that should make the wait any easier...i live in Norway and hope it does not cut my rotrex equipped -99 out of the loop. Any video of said bike? We really like video of supercharged VFR's. [/urlBoost on Everything needs boost! Glad it did not have VTEC, you would have rip that dyno apart . Really enjoy that video and a lot of other members did too . Thanks :) hopefully with the possible group buy on this thread, and some other minor adjustments, I will break the 200whp barrier, now that would just be hysterical fun Everything needs boost! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted July 13, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 13, 2015 Yosi will makes a full titanium exhaust for CB1100 but not for the venerable VFR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Hi guys, been following this thread for ages and saw Motads name as a possible source. I went to the factory late last year and met the boss Ian before purchasing a full system. He seemed a nice guy so thought i would fire off an email on your behalf. Told him to contact Rush as a point of communication. Heres the email i sent. Hi Ian I came up to the factory late last year and purchased a full system from you and am pleased with it. Have you been following this thread on http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/page/index.html located at http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/78592-potential-re-release-of-two-brothers-racing-vfr800-headers/page-81#entry1004907. The guys on here are crying out for a large diameter set of performance headers for 5th and 6th Gen VFRs but various manufacturers do not seem to be interested. Motads name came up as a "possible" avenue of production. Seems like there are a lot of potential customers out there including myself. Anyway you can help? Best guy to PM is Rush2112. Many thanks Adrian Got a reply from Ian at Motad today, see below. "there is a perception that larger diameter pipes create more power- in fact in many cases larger pipes will reduce power as gas velocity is reduced- any large diameter system will need many hours of dyno development and testing. the other downside of larger diameter pipes when clearances are so tight- that almost certainly going to be a need to modify fairings etc etc thanks for asking but we will stay in our “niche” of offering a well price replacement for the original- I am sure that you are serious but in so many similar cases we have found that only a tiny proportion of interested customers are actually ready to buy (and take on the significant extra costs) Ian McD" Must admit that surprised me ie "in many cases larger pipes will reduce power".More learned members than me please comment. This guy has been saying the same s#$@ since 2009 when I originally bought a Motad header from him. He's just not interested in building a performance header. Because honestly, catless factory reproductions with zero thought put into them, sell like hotcakes and with no R&D, have a big profit margin. He talked me out of tracking down a real header 6 years ago, and he's still doing it today. The first motad didn't fit at all, the second only fit after I ground down the center stand. It made no noticeable difference in power. Just some extra noise and smell. Fast forward to 2013, I source a two brothers header and replace my Motad: MUCH LOUDER More Raw and raspy tone (no steel mesh in collector and much larger primaries) Lighter weight (7 pounds vs 12) Same smell Little less off idle power (2000 RPMs and below) Basically same power 2000-5000 Stronger in the 5000-7000 range VERY STRONG 7000-RED LINE POWER My 1/4 mile trap speed went from 123mph to 128 mph. Its been confirmed, motad is full of it. Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer HighSideNZ Posted July 13, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 13, 2015 I concur with CRR46 The Motad's are just a replacement for standard. Nothing more, nothing less. There is a huge potential for good power gains from the VFR with a good pipe. The problems is finding someone to build one. I eventually went down the path of modding an RC45 set of Shark headers, at quite high cost, but the end result, I feel, well justified the outlay and work. In saying that what I ended up with is a system with different length primaries and secondaries front to back with longer primaries and shorter secondaries on the front compared to the back. This has spread the mid range a little more, without sacrificing too much top end. Overall, the primary/secondary combined lengths are the same front to back, to keep the harmonics correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer adeyren Posted July 13, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 13, 2015 So basically this all comes down to one thing. MONEY! No manufacturer wants to invest time and resources into a product that may have the potential for a small market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted July 13, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 13, 2015 Back to my Cross Plane Gixxer Blade idea! Real big market there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted July 14, 2015 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 14, 2015 Hi guys, been following this thread for ages and saw Motads name as a possible source. I went to the factory late last year and met the boss Ian before purchasing a full system. He seemed a nice guy so thought i would fire off an email on your behalf. Told him to contact Rush as a point of communication. Heres the email i sent. Hi Ian I came up to the factory late last year and purchased a full system from you and am pleased with it. Have you been following this thread on http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/page/index.html located at http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/78592-potential-re-release-of-two-brothers-racing-vfr800-headers/page-81#entry1004907. The guys on here are crying out for a large diameter set of performance headers for 5th and 6th Gen VFRs but various manufacturers do not seem to be interested. Motads name came up as a "possible" avenue of production. Seems like there are a lot of potential customers out there including myself. Anyway you can help? Best guy to PM is Rush2112. Many thanks Adrian Got a reply from Ian at Motad today, see below. "there is a perception that larger diameter pipes create more power- in fact in many cases larger pipes will reduce power as gas velocity is reduced- any large diameter system will need many hours of dyno development and testing. the other downside of larger diameter pipes when clearances are so tight- that almost certainly going to be a need to modify fairings etc etc thanks for asking but we will stay in our “niche” of offering a well price replacement for the original- I am sure that you are serious but in so many similar cases we have found that only a tiny proportion of interested customers are actually ready to buy (and take on the significant extra costs) Ian McD" Must admit that surprised me ie "in many cases larger pipes will reduce power".More learned members than me please comment. Larger pipes just for the sake of larger pipes is not the way to go... we are asking for specific pipe sizes that correlate to the RC45 pipes that Honda did all the R&D for us. Just making pipes larger could reduce power... that is not what we are asking for. We know what sizes work and give documented increases in power. This reply was nothing more than misinformation and deflection from someone who doesn't want to do the work or help... it may make him feel better to say it but it doesn't make it true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOTAD Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I was asked the question "is Motad interested in making large diameter headers" and this was my honest and open answer it hasnt changed since 2009 (or indeed 86 when I joined the company). Our market is the "boring" replacement market and being in Europe we are limited as to the noise levels and of course any increased performance system is going to almost certainly need a noisier free flowing muffler which in Europe is tough to get away with without attacting the wrong attention. We are not being dismissive- but although we love bikes we need to make a small profit and a project like this is (you are right) going to need a lot of r&d time spent-even the road legal replacements ar now seeling at very low quantities with reduced bike useage and a smaller market sorry to be dumb here (have not looked through the whole thread) by why will Two Bros not remake a batch?- their core market and of course right in the largest possible market for a non road approved system Ian McDonald- back to my boring VFR750 fj!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Welcome aboard the site Ian, and thanks so much for your post. Surely you could make up a bit of extra noise with a removable db killer? After all, we are mainly seeking a revised set of primary tubes - the silencer need not be provided by Motad, although I'm sure you would sell a few if the option were available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer ecn Posted July 16, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 16, 2015 Looking at the price for parts and the effort it would take, I can see why TB does not jump on proposition of holding 75 sets in their inventory. Maybe ask them for a range of minimum quantities for different unit costs (e.g. how much for 25, 50...)? http://stainlessheaders.eclipticcms.com/headerfabrication Hat's off to those with the skills to roll their own...looks like a labor of love ... http://www.burnsstainless.com/bendquality.aspx Would it be worth reworking a Dekelvic (awful looking collector) set to offer better performance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted July 16, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 16, 2015 I was asked the question "is Motad interested in making large diameter headers" and this was my honest and open answer it hasnt changed since 2009 (or indeed 86 when I joined the company). Our market is the "boring" replacement market and being in Europe we are limited as to the noise levels and of course any increased performance system is going to almost certainly need a noisier free flowing muffler which in Europe is tough to get away with without attacting the wrong attention. We are not being dismissive- but although we love bikes we need to make a small profit and a project like this is (you are right) going to need a lot of r&d time spent-even the road legal replacements ar now seeling at very low quantities with reduced bike useage and a smaller market sorry to be dumb here (have not looked through the whole thread) by why will Two Bros not remake a batch?- their core market and of course right in the largest possible market for a non road approved system Ian McDonald- back to my boring VFR750 fj!!!! It was me , I wonder if you would . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted July 17, 2015 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 17, 2015 I was asked the question "is Motad interested in making large diameter headers" and this was my honest and open answer it hasnt changed since 2009 (or indeed 86 when I joined the company). Our market is the "boring" replacement market and being in Europe we are limited as to the noise levels and of course any increased performance system is going to almost certainly need a noisier free flowing muffler which in Europe is tough to get away with without attacting the wrong attention. We are not being dismissive- but although we love bikes we need to make a small profit and a project like this is (you are right) going to need a lot of r&d time spent-even the road legal replacements ar now seeling at very low quantities with reduced bike useage and a smaller market sorry to be dumb here (have not looked through the whole thread) by why will Two Bros not remake a batch?- their core market and of course right in the largest possible market for a non road approved system Ian McDonald- back to my boring VFR750 fj!!!! Hi Ian, Thank you for your response and welcome to the forum! To answer your question about TBR, they no longer have the jigs for producing these headers. They are willing to re-do the jigs and produce a batch of headers but want 100 orders pre-paid in order to take on the project. We have been looking for other manufacturers who may be sympathetic to our cause and produce a batch of performance headers with 20 - 25 starting order quantity built to the RC45 header ID dimensions with the stock VFR800 merging configuration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOTAD Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 we are of course sympathetic - but as a competitor I would say that TBRs offer is not unreasonable one- one offs by a skilled technician is one thing but rejigging and tooling for a job with such tight clearances is going to be a time consuming one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted July 20, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 20, 2015 we are of course sympathetic - but as a competitor I would say that TBRs offer is not unreasonable one- one offs by a skilled technician is one thing but rejigging and tooling for a job with such tight clearances is going to be a time consuming one And this bike has a lot of potential BUT my first career was in manufacturing so I also understand the other side . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer ecn Posted July 20, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 20, 2015 we are of course sympathetic - but as a competitor I would say that TBRs offer is not unreasonable one- one offs by a skilled technician is one thing but rejigging and tooling for a job with such tight clearances is going to be a time consuming one Do your header jibs look like part 3 6:20 of link below? http://stainlessheaders.eclipticcms.com/headerfabrication Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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