Member Contributer pres589 Posted June 11, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 11, 2014 About 8 months ago I decided to really overhaul the electrical system on my 2004 VFR. I get a VFRness w/ switched accessory fuse block, a mosfet reg/rectifier from Rick's, a CDC (? could be wrong) led voltage indicator that changes color of a single led for voltage indication, and a Ballistic 8-cell lithium/iron battery. I swap these parts in and things are great. The stator has been replaced once, also from Rick's, and as of today has maybe 12,000 miles accumulated. About 3,000 miles later I start a 4200 mile bike/camp vacation on the bike. Going great. Get to a friend's in Philly and the led is telling me the battery isn't being charged as I'm doing some in town riding. I get back to his garage. Since then I've gone crazy trying to fix this. I found about .6V difference between the r/r output and the battery posts. Like the r/r would be at 13.7 running, 13.1 at the batt. So I read on that, added a couple 12-ga wires to the factory harness (bike side) and terminated in a ring at the positive post. That got the difference to about .15V, so an improvement, but not excellent. I charged a second small car battery and attached it to the output connector of the r/r with test leads to see what the r/r would do just running off the Ballistic and a bench charger. 14.5V at the car battery. Feeling good, I put things back together, put the Ballistic on the charger to make sure it was in good shape, and charged for about an hour. Took off in city traffic on the bike to look at buying a new batt, thinking the Ballistic is damaged, and I had a green voltage light the whole way. Turned around after about 20 minuted going & on the way back the light went orange. Light would go back to green, the orange, the green again on the return. Sometimes with the fans coming on but sometimes without. I had Rick's overnight a replacement r/r yesterday. As soon as I got back here I attached the new r/r and checked before & after voltage. Both were around 12.85 at the battery. Swapped to the car battery, no change. The stator continues to test good; rings between legs, good loaded and unloaded V-AC. Pulling things added with the VFRness doesn't seem to help. I'm really stuck and my next step may be to rent a uhaul and cart the bike back to Kansas. Give me ideas or questions and I'll play along in full harmony & detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted June 11, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 11, 2014 What mods HID's. ? And what about the extra VRFness fuse. check it for a crack or maybe going bad . I remember it being 20A right . And all the grounds look good ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNRabbit Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 What mods HID's. ? And what about the extra VRFness fuse. check it for a crack or maybe going bad . I remember it being 20A right . And all the grounds look good ... ^^This^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer dalesvfr Posted June 12, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 12, 2014 Can you trust the 'green/orange' meter you installed? I added an ADVMonster digital meter running through a switched fusebox and it is about .6 or .7 volts off from what a handheld meter at the posts says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer pres589 Posted June 12, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 12, 2014 The led indicator seems very good; green is anything over 13.1 and it's very repeatable, it doesn't change trip voltages. I've been using two different DVOMs for testinf anyway, the led just lets me know there is a problem. Grounds look good. DC volts between either of the black wires at the r/r output plug and the neg battery post have never been over .15V. Connectors all look good. That said, I'm starting to wonder about the stator. When the bike was last good and hot, I pulled the stator connector and checked resistance between legs. They ranged from 1.3 to 1.5 ohms. Does a hot resistance spec exist? The wires were very hot to the touch but the connector looks great. I'm tempted to open up the bike and inspect the stator but I'm not excited about dealing with the gasket, etc. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNRabbit Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 1.5 ohms is too much on the stator. S/B more like .2 ohms.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer pres589 Posted June 12, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 12, 2014 1.5 ohms is too much on the stator. S/B more like .2 ohms.... What is 'S/B'? I just did a cold check; all three legs had .4 ohms between after subtracting .4 for test lead resistance. Am letting the bike idle for a good amount of time to get hot resistance numbers. Oh, and the only mods are the voltage indicator, and a cig lighter I use to charge my old iPhone and/or a GPS unit. So 10 watts draw, max, and about a watt I think for the indicator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 The wires were very hot to the touch but the connector looks great. I'm tempted to open up the bike and inspect the stator but I'm not excited about dealing with the gasket, etc. Thoughts? If the wires are that hot the connector wont be good for long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted June 12, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 12, 2014 1.5 ohms is too much on the stator. S/B more like .2 ohms.... Way too much .. Order a Honda stator . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer pres589 Posted June 12, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 12, 2014 After 20 minutes idling, and subtracting test lead resistance, I have .8, .9, and 1.0. Restarting the bike I have 13.5 v at the r/r with a hot motor and no fans; when I started idling 20 minutes ago it was nearly 13.9. So, stator? Way too much .. Order a Honda stator . What about another Rick's? I wonder who can have one to my door first... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 every few years we get a rash of all this aftermarket stuff having issues, a year ago it was the opposite, they luv after market, and hate oem. I said just wait it runs in cycles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Oem stator + oem fh020aa regulator. Only way to go. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNRabbit Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 1.5 ohms is too much on the stator. S/B more like .2 ohms.... What is 'S/B'? I just did a cold check; all three legs had .4 ohms between after subtracting .4 for test lead resistance. Am letting the bike idle for a good amount of time to get hot resistance numbers. Oh, and the only mods are the voltage indicator, and a cig lighter I use to charge my old iPhone and/or a GPS unit. So 10 watts draw, max, and about a watt I think for the indicator. s/b is should be~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer pres589 Posted June 12, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 12, 2014 I'm not looking for another r/r at this point when the two I have operate identically. I'll take the first stator available, either Rick's or oem; I'd kind of like to get home some day... I don't think the oem units are anything to crow about, as my first one died around 30,000 miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted June 12, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 12, 2014 http://roadstercycle.com/ Try this guy ... Checking your stator is the first step. I'm using my V-max as a demonstrator for this. Unplug your wiring from your stock regulator and use a volt/ohm meter to check it. Switch your meter to Ohms, you'll be reading under 10 ohms most likely. There are 3 wires that you have to check. You check the resistance or ohms between 2 wires. Meaning all combinations of the three. On the 3 different stators I checked I got between 0.6 and 0.8 ohms between the 3 combinations. I checked the Yamaha manual and they said 0.42ohms plus or minus 15% @ 20 degrees C or 68 degrees F. So I figure that if you have between 0.38 and 0.85 ohms between the combination of the 3 wires you should be fine. Check your bikes manual for your resistance numbers. I wouldn't run out and buy a new stator because one of the stators I checked was brand new from Yamaha and it did not meet their specs but works perfectly. If you have no resistance or high resistance between any pair you should pull your stator and visually inspect it for burnt sections. And if you see dark discoloration (not just from being submerged in oil) on about a third of it then you can run out and buy one. And since you are doing it anyway you might as well buy a high output stator, it's only a few dollars more. In the figures below the ohm meter reads 0.8 on the first 2 and 0.7 on the last 1. They were all fluctuating back and forth between 0.7 and 0.8. It's just because of the moment the camera took the picture is why they are not all the same. Remember besides this test, check every stator wire for a short to ground, meaning one end of your test probe to a bare of your engine cast and the other to a stator terminal you should get no reading. If you do one of the windings is shorted to ground which means a stator problem. After 20 minutes idling, and subtracting test lead resistance, I have .8, .9, and 1.0. Restarting the bike I have 13.5 v at the r/r with a hot motor and no fans; when I started idling 20 minutes ago it was nearly 13.9. So, stator? Way too much .. Order a Honda stator . What about another Rick's? I wonder who can have one to my door first... And remember your DVM could be off 500m ohm's(1/2) so your reading could be even higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I'm not looking for another r/r at this point when the two I have operate identically. I'll take the first stator available, either Rick's or oem; I'd kind of like to get home some day... I don't think the oem units are anything to crow about, as my first one died around 30,000 miles. The oem units , they work the first time , and last the longest, that's the only reason to buy the oem. The only way to get oem quicker than Ricks is to overnight from a dealer or who has it in stock, course that's very expensive. Generally from dealer its atleast 4 days unless expedited. In your case the ricks is the quickest, cheapest option. But I don't like doing stuff 2 or 3 times, whether its cheaper or not. Everything Ive seen the oem also puts out the best output. Average VFR oem life is well above 30,000 miles, typical aftermarket after range is in the area , but didn't you say you got about 12,000 off this one. Having said that depending on the model of bike non vfr, oem may only average 20 to 30,000 miles, but its still better than the aftermarkets which are much less many times. A few have seen post 70,000 miles on the VFR oem, but ive been unable to beat 55, 000 mile average on the vfr as of yet. But both of my oem replacements have made it into this range, the second still going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asphalt_Pilot Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Be sure to check the connector to the starter relay as well. Recently had mine go bad in a very short period of time (though to be honest I hadn't been checking it as I should have been - always paid a lot of attention to the ground and R/R connectors, but not this one - that was a mistake). My R/R and wires were hot to the touch after the bike was running only a few minutes - mainly because it had nowhere to dump the power, since it wasn't getting to the bike's electrical system. Cut off the connector and crimped on some quick-disconnect terminals, and good to go (just a temporary fix until my new connector arrives from wiremybike.com). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer pres589 Posted June 12, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 12, 2014 Asphault, where is that specific relay? The only obvious relays I have seen are for the vfrness accessory fuse block. I have seen about .6V difference between the r/r output plus and the + post on the battery, so I added a 12-gauge wire to each of the r/r output wires and ran that to a ring terminal I added to the + post which reduced that difference to about .15V. I'm a little surprised that there's any difference, if I'm honest, but I'll take the improvement. spud: I'd buy a Rick's, finish my trip, then change to oem at my leisure if the Rick's are that suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asphalt_Pilot Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Asphault, where is that specific relay? The only obvious relays I have seen are for the vfrness accessory fuse block. I have a 4th gen, so I'm not sure if it's the same on your bike, but chances are good that it's right in front of the battery. Under a rubber cap, in my case. If you bypassed the connector and went directly to the battery and didn't get much difference, this connector is probably not the problem. But worth checking anyway. I think you're on the right track with the stator. Good luck! Sucks to have your trip interrupted with electrical issues. Been there, done that, not fun. But my motto has become: "It's all part of the adventure!" (need to put that in as my tag line) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNRabbit Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I'm not looking for another r/r at this point when the two I have operate identically. I'll take the first stator available, either Rick's or oem; I'd kind of like to get home some day... I don't think the oem units are anything to crow about, as my first one died around 30,000 miles. The oem units , they work the first time , and last the longest, that's the only reason to buy the oem. The only way to get oem quicker than Ricks is to overnight from a dealer or who has it in stock, course that's very expensive. Generally from dealer its atleast 4 days unless expedited. In your case the ricks is the quickest, cheapest option. But I don't like doing stuff 2 or 3 times, whether its cheaper or not. Everything Ive seen the oem also puts out the best output. Average VFR oem life is well above 30,000 miles, typical aftermarket after range is in the area , but didn't you say you got about 12,000 off this one. Having said that depending on the model of bike non vfr, oem may only average 20 to 30,000 miles, but its still better than the aftermarkets which are much less many times. A few have seen post 70,000 miles on the VFR oem, but ive been unable to beat 55, 000 mile average on the vfr as of yet. But both of my oem replacements have made it into this range, the second still going. This is my postulated THEORY only: I would submit that the issue that killed the OEM in the first place was responsible for killing the replacement stator in these cases. Breakdowns between contacts & grounds will lead to overheating in the R/R & subsequently the death of the stator. Since the OEM units seem to be lasting many thousands of miles, I'm guessing that age/time/heat are having their inevitable affect on the electrical paths on these bikes, then the replacement stator is installed with these compromised contacts in place. I bought my '98 in May 2013 with 31,000 miles on the odometer. I've replaced the R/R with a Rick's unit this past winter & have thoroughly checked all connections/grounds & the stator. All plug-in contacts look as new & grounds are verified good by me. I'm running 14.3-14.5 volts at the battery at speed, dropping to 13.3-13.5 at idle (I have my idle set low at 1100 rpm). Replacing the R/R was a preventative measure by me as I was blowing hi beam headlights at an alarming rate. I recently installed a voltage meter & I intend to continue to monitor the voltages on my bike & stay ahead of this issue....perhaps we'll learn something definitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer pres589 Posted June 12, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 12, 2014 I was wrong about the mileages. Sat down and thought about it; first stator died around 27,000 miles. Second one now seemingly the culprit 22,000 miles after it was installed. I've had good voltages out of it until now. Your theory about stators dying because of compromised systems is possibly accurate. But where should I be looking? I set my DVOM to check DC volts at the pins in reference to ground across the main harness and I either have just a couple tenths or less (indicating good grounds) or a voltage withing a couple tenths of battery voltage, indicating minimal voltage drop across the system. The Rick's r/r does not use an external monitor wire so nothing to check with that. Saying 'I think other guy's bikes have weak electrical systems, causing premature stator or r/r death' is great but if you haven't sat down at one of those bikes and fished out the fault then it's just talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNRabbit Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I was wrong about the mileages. Sat down and thought about it; first stator died around 27,000 miles. Second one now seemingly the culprit 22,000 miles after it was installed. I've had good voltages out of it until now. Your theory about stators dying because of compromised systems is possibly accurate. But where should I be looking? I set my DVOM to check DC volts at the pins in reference to ground across the main harness and I either have just a couple tenths or less (indicating good grounds) or a voltage withing a couple tenths of battery voltage, indicating minimal voltage drop across the system. The Rick's r/r does not use an external monitor wire so nothing to check with that. Saying 'I think other guy's bikes have weak electrical systems, causing premature stator or r/r death' is great but if you haven't sat down at one of those bikes and fished out the fault then it's just talk. First place I'd look would be the green grounding block in front of the battery. After that, start removing & cleaning connectors & use Oxi-Guard or some similar protectant to prevent oxidation of contacts. Also, I agree it's just talk, but as I stated it's my theory~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer pres589 Posted June 12, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 12, 2014 There's a power/ground block aft of the battery. Aft bolt/ect in the block rings to ground with maybe .1 ohm resistance. Forward bolt appears to be hot, with the same near-perfect resistance to batt +. These bikes are overly complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted June 13, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 13, 2014 Progress or do we need mount a recovery and retract team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer pres589 Posted June 13, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 13, 2014 I got the old stator out this morning. It looks burned pretty badly like the oem one did when I replaced it. New one in, bike mostly buttoned up, started. After a minute of idling the voltage at the r/r is about 14.45, batt at 14.20. I don't know why the drop increased between batt & r/r. So far, about 10 minutes idling, and the fans came on (as they should) and r/r output actually went up to 14.65. Before it'd drop about .8V or more. Issue; stator wires before 3pin connector got hot fast. Wires after that connector in the r/r side feel just fine. What the devil? Also have discover right side fan seems inop. Will investigate. Looking a lot better. Ack, there is no right side fan, never mind that noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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