New Cct With Enlarged 2.75Mm Oil Port

[Switchblade]

Wow APE NO !

[spud786]

Yeah I think most have ended up using RTV on the threads, with other bikes and the apes, the orings always end up getting easily damaged or dont hold up. I can see the rear being more troublesome, but the fronts had leakage too?

I don't see it mentioned but there is a reason for the small hole & that is drainage when no oil pressure, it stops the oil draining out of the tensioner. Oil pressure will always force oil into the cct but when no oil pressure it will drain out due to gravity so you will have a larger time period of low oil in cct if you enlarge the hole which will cause more wear to cct. It isn't a major issue with rear cct because it mounts so oil can't drain but the front cct will drain.

.

If thats the case, Im not sure how valueable that small hole is , as far as drain out. cause you can have no noise , stop at a fuel station for 5 minutes, restart and get the clack clack immediately after start up. But I agree, the small hole will not allow drainage as quick assuming oil is easily getting through to begin with, at the same time its going to hender oil going in, comparison a larger hole.

So it may be a wash or maybe not, its just something inquiry minds have wondered about.

[Switchblade]

Even with a break down it just doesn't make any sense .

The front one will drain out ...

[spud786]

You just put it back together... there is no extra preload on the spring in its OEM form... only that which comes from pulling the plunger in and holding it with the key prior to installing on the bike (but then it releases again as you remove the key so, no preload). I have this information direct from Honda. So if you want to try the 5 turns more trick you simply start from 0 turns

With zero turns, the tentioner wont work at all (thats fact) I dont know how many turns honda installs, but I guarantee its not zero.

Even fully extended the windings of the spring are still under Winding pressure. other wise vibration would cause the the tensioner to screw back in and loose chain tention.

The tentioner I rewound back to oem I say was atleast 10 or 15 turns, to start.

[Baileyrock]

Even with a break down it just doesn't make any sense .

The front one will drain out ...

That's a great view to see where the cap goes if it falls off during CTT change out!

[Switchblade]

Your welcome BR, now can I ship you mine(CCT's) and whats the charge for replacing the caps ?

just kiddin

[MVinOZ]

Even with a break down it just doesn't make any sense .

The front one will drain out ...

That's interesting, the CCT's are in different places front to rear, could that have something to do with the noisey front? Given the rear CCT is further along the lever, the front would need more spring tension to apply the same amount of force... assuming front & rear CCT are the same part

[spud786]

Intstall is complete!!!!

I was alot younger the last time I did it, plus I had better vision and better lighting. but I got it done. It sucked big time though, took about 2 hours or alittle more, thats only lifting the tank and right side panel to install. I probably would not recommend that route to most though.

No noise on start up, and Idled it a good 5 minutes ot so to about 135 degrees, revved the motor a few times, very smooth.

Now heres the really bad part , upon getting the tentioner out, the cap was gone, but like last time, it was sitting in the hole. This time no cap it wasnt there, I fished with a foot or so of magnet but no luck, took a break and tried a few more times, nothing, never heard any thing drop either. So Im going to assume it will stay happy riding at the bottom of the back side of the guide guide, and will stay right there. So Im running no cap, and 2.75mm oil hole. I hate that I couldnt recover the cap,but nothing I can do.

[Switchblade]

Oh my !!!! So the CCT must be almost extended all the way out .

[spud786]

No the cap is only a thin peice of metal, the differnce between cap and no cap is negligible, however if the rubber tip wears, that will make the tentioner extend. It sucks but I tried to no avail. I remeber last time, that cap didnt fit tight at all, I should have glued it on.

As to the condition of the old tentioner, really nothing obvious and tention didnt seem bad or even weak, however there was some oil spooge running down the shaft , that looked dark greyish, like alot of metal friction coming from inside the tensioner. (probably from the rattling).

Switch blade, you can see in your picture , the cap has a nice channel to fall into.

[spud786]

Well. Im going to do a 100 mile run tommorow, to test out. That ought to also confirm whether the loose cap, is safe sitting in the channel on the back side of the guide. later on I may try and find a differnt type magnet to fish down in there, Im not sure how much wear the rubber head will take without the cap. I know years back a few removed the cap claiming no more noise, but never heard any long term reports.

If the motor dosent lock up in 100 miles, Id say the cap is safe, I have a feeling losing the cap has happened to several vfrs.

I also took an old tentioner, and tested the strength of the rubber tip, thats some strong stuff (more than expected), it ought to wear well, Im less concerned. but even if it does wear over time, 5mm of rubber runs into solid metal.

[hondalover]

Well. Im going to do a 100 mile run tommorow, to test out. That ought to also confirm whether the loose cap, is safe sitting in the channel on the back side of the guide. later on I may try and find a differnt type magnet to fish down in there, Im not sure how much wear the rubber head will take without the cap. I know years back a few removed the cap claiming no more noise, but never heard any long term reports.

If the motor dosent lock up in 100 miles, Id say the cap is safe, I have a feeling losing the cap has happened to several vfrs.

I also took an old tentioner, and tested the strength of the rubber tip, thats some strong stuff (more than expected), it ought to wear well, Im less concerned. but even if it does wear over time, 5mm of rubber runs into solid metal.

Also considering the fact that the cam chain guide is made of some type of plastic, I don't think I'd concern myself with the rubber tip wearing.

[Switchblade]

Intstall is complete!!!!

I was alot younger the last time I did it, plus I had better vision and better lighting. but I got it done. It sucked big time though, took about 2 hours or alittle more, thats only lifting the tank and right side panel to install. I probably would not recommend that route to most though.

No noise on start up, and Idled it a good 5 minutes ot so to about 135 degrees, revved the motor a few times, very smooth.

Now heres the really bad part , upon getting the tentioner out, the cap was gone, but like last time, it was sitting in the hole. This time no cap it wasnt there, I fished with a foot or so of magnet but no luck, took a break and tried a few more times, nothing, never heard any thing drop either. So Im going to assume it will stay happy riding at the bottom of the back side of the guide guide, and will stay right there. So Im running no cap, and 2.75mm oil hole. I hate that I couldnt recover the cap,but nothing I can do.

Gotcha thanks ..

Well. Im going to do a 100 mile run tommorow, to test out. That ought to also confirm whether the loose cap, is safe sitting in the channel on the back side of the guide. later on I may try and find a differnt type magnet to fish down in there, Im not sure how much wear the rubber head will take without the cap. I know years back a few removed the cap claiming no more noise, but never heard any long term reports.

If the motor dosent lock up in 100 miles, Id say the cap is safe, I have a feeling losing the cap has happened to several vfrs.

I also took an old tentioner, and tested the strength of the rubber tip, thats some strong stuff (more than expected), it ought to wear well, Im less concerned. but even if it does wear over time, 5mm of rubber runs into solid metal.

Alt to be interesting.

[spud786]

Well, I think its safe to say there's a safe zone for the cap behind the guide. I rode all tight track type riding 11,500 rpm, post 100 speed, lots of hard accel and decel, and few wheelies.

As to noise, totally quiet as a mouse thus far, I even stopped for a few minutes just to see any merit in the quicker drain back theory with larger hole.

AS to the cap, the magnet I used was a small telescopic type, I even bent it to thread through the hole, no bite on anything. Ive seen some snake type flexible magnet tools, but not seen anything local, so probably would have to order online, if I ever get bold and make another attempt to recover the cap.

[Switchblade]

Thanks for the feedback. I think we all know what to do now ..

[spud786]

Yeah at this point intial results are positive(no detriment at all), but it will take some miles to see if lasting. I know down the road people are going to want to know how much wear shows up on the rubber plunger tip, to see if thats an alternative.

When I mentioned the dark gray oil spooge on the old tentioner shaft upon removal, I think this is from the spring rubbing and bouncing against the internal aluminum body(the clack and vibration noise) Lack of oil flow contributing to that?? I guess at this point, time well tell.

[Rice]

Well, I think its safe to say there's a safe zone for the cap behind the guide. I rode all tight track type riding 11,500 rpm, post 100 speed, lots of hard accel and decel, and few wheelies.

As to noise, totally quiet as a mouse thus far, I even stopped for a few minutes just to see any merit in the quicker drain back theory with larger hole.

AS to the cap, the magnet I used was a small telescopic type, I even bent it to thread through the hole, no bite on anything. Ive seen some snake type flexible magnet tools, but not seen anything local, so probably would have to order online, if I ever get bold and make another attempt to recover the cap.

I had the same issue and fished it out with the snake type magnet. It is a major PITA due to the very tight fit of the cap in the hole, but it is doable.

I know you REALLY don't want to go there again, but it'd be best if you did with the right tool.

[spud786]

Do you recall where you got the magnet?

Very true Not wanting to go there, and would really hurt to go through again and not retrieve

[Switchblade]

Hey Spud I have a idea to remove the metal cap . I seen a guy that had made a magnetic pickup tool by using a computer hard drive magnets. He cut them down to the size of a dime or a little smaller and drilled a hole thru the middle. He then used piano wire to bound them together. He cut the wire to about 24". So one end has the magnets and you use the other end to push it in small areas.

[spud786]

That hole is goes straight in and makes a hard turn , so you need something you can push in the right direction

They have these snake flexible coil spring magnet pick up tools, Im looking that direction if I make the attempt, I really want to see how the rubber tip wears, and over all hows its going before attempting to go back in. I think the cap is okay where its at. Im pretty sure if it wasnt, an issue would have already presented itself.

[Rice]

I don't recall the brand of mine, but THIS one looks like it should do fine

[Switchblade]

The head looks to big to me .

[Mohawk]

So if you suspect its oil drain or supply is what causes the wear, why not swap the front & rear tensioners at the first sign of noise on the front ! If the noise doesn't move to the rear cct then you will have proved your theory !

[spud786]

Yeah, seen snake tools like that , I'll probably have to order online. I saw another one that keeps the magnet hidden until you push a plunger. But that one is probably the best option, or similar

[spud786]

So if you suspect its oil drain or supply is what causes the wear, why not swap the front & rear tensioners at the first sign of noise on the front ! If the noise doesn't move to the rear cct then you will have proved your theory !

You could do that(alot of work) , but if you look at the amount of people whove installed brand new front tentioners and shortly afterwards , they begin making noise again, its pretty obvious there's something directly related to the front issue, much more so than the rear, and I wouldnt label it as obvious wear. Usually you cant see anything obviously wrong.

Obviously wear is not going to be an issue with a brand new tentioner, yet in many cases brand new front tentioners will still begin to rattle not far down the road. Winter time and cold weather tends to aide in bringing out the tentioner noise issues also.

I guess a good question for everyone would be how long after installing a new front tention did it begin to make noise again?