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When Butt And Asphalt Meet..


daqangel

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Even so, I made a point of buying an ABS VFR this time around because in a true panic situation, I still think the bike is smarter than I am.

You're not getting it. You control the actions of the bike. Your skill and decisions make the result happen. If an emergency come up, your abiiity to keep your cool and decide the best actions to a best result is the from the practice that you have worked on and automatic. If ABS is there to back you up, fine. But dont depend on it as your primary defense. - The bike smarter than you? That thought will bite you.

Again ---------- True Panic = Hospital.

Sorry for the lecture....

No offense taken but after owning three VFRs and fairly regular practice at panic stops with the non ABS models, I would never push the braking system to the point that ABS allows for fear of locking the front. I'm certain that pro level riders can stop a non ABS bike faster than I can stop mine with it, but not many of us on this site could do the same. I don't rely on ABS to keep me out of trouble but it certainly can save your ass in an undesirable situation. After 30+ years on the road, I DO GET IT and so do the manufacturers as well as insurance companies. The original poster on this thread >>MIGHT<< still have a motorcycle if he had ABS to assist him in slowing down and diverting his course at the same time. Locking up whether on accident or on purpose is never the best option for scrubbing off speed and that is what happened here.

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Since I'm in a different country, I can't help with the insurance questions, but glad you're ok. I remember having an accident early on in my riding career where I "layed the bike down". The reality was I panicked, locked the front and fell off.

ABS isn't the answer to avoiding crashing, practice and skill is.

The Vfr standard brakes aren't cutting edge by any stretch of the imagination. And I'm guessing the ABS isn't either, the Vfr isn't a flagship model anymore, so it isn't getting all the bells and whistles.

The Kawasaki Versys I have has abs, and it is rudimentary at best. Very clunky when it cuts in, if you hit a bump while braking, it releases the brakes for you, pretty scary until you realise what it is.

The bmw s1000rr I test rode at eastern creek raceway has sensors that measure wheel speed 300 times per second. That system is brilliant, and very unobtrusive. I kept being stupider and stupider with the brakes, and the bike wouldn't kill me. Which was good, I didn't really want to buy one.

Until all ABS systems are at race bike levels like the 1000rr, I'll prefer using my brain to stop the front wheel from locking, rather than the bikes computers. As reliable as the Vfr electrics are, and all. Ahem.

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In my case (accident) I did hit the limit on ABS and was still able to steer away from the car. To me that is the magic of ABS. Practicing panic stops in a parking lot is good and I did. But who is going to risk their bike by locking their brakes while steering without abs? ON my last bike I performed the impossible. I was in full on panic stop when I hit about 15 foot of sand on the pavement. Both brakes locked up while in the sand but regained traction after passing through it. I remained upright and stopped in time to to avoid the offending vehicle. I knew if I had been trying to avoid (steer around) that vehicle my chances of avoiding going down would have been pretty much zero. Made my mind up then that the next bike I owned would have ABS. But also in my case the ABS was not enough to save me. In some cases your are going to have a wreck if the cagers are stupid or inattentive enough. On a personal note I propose a law that cell phones (which usually include gps) sense traveling more than 15 mph and shut off all services Except 911.

On the insurance side get a lot of um/uim. The girl that caused my accident had $30,000 worth of insurance. My medical bills so far have amounted to a little over $100,000. I would have been compensated $15,000 for my pain and suffering and lost wages without my coverage. I would also not have been compensated for my permanent disability that I have. Every sneeze, cough and deep breath I am reminded how close I came to leaving my family and friends. Give thanks that you came out healthy, gets some um/uim insurance and opt for abs on your next bike. JMNSHO

Bill

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I remember having an accident early on in my riding career where I "layed the bike down". The reality was I panicked, locked the front and fell off.

I wasn't there, so I don't know what happened, but I can say with 100% certainty that the Motorcycle Safety Foundation did NOT teach the OP that particular "skill"... :wacko:

Ciao,

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If you slide across the pavement on your ass, then get up and walk away mostly unharmed, that's a good thing.

Bummer about the bike though.

I tried that once in the 80's. The tires on the bike were probably from the 70s.

Both ends let go at once on a damp Sheridan road at maybe 30 mph or less.

Being a left turn the bike laid itself down on the left side, slid into the curb, and flipped over.

Way to damage both sides. And knock the breaker points out of whack. :pissed:

I did get it running enough to limp home.

Anyway, hope the OP gets a newer bike out of the deal.
Pretty sure some lessons have been learned. :warranty:

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IMO if you stopped sliding before you hit the car, then you had time to stop the bike. Tires will have a higher coefficient of friction than your butt, and you probably could have stopped safely. If you had time to deliberately drop your bike, then you more than likely had time to stop.

+1

However, I'd say that if the OP had time to lay it down and stop sliding before hitting the bike/car, then there was absolutely enough time to stop safely! I suspect that the OP is scared of the front brakes (even if they are used by the OP - it doesn't mean that they're used to their full potential). There are extremely few scenarios where laying the bike down is the best option, and this isn't one of them!

That being said, I'm glad that the OP wasn't hurt.

Edit: I read a bit further... Ah, the old front wheel slide... For your next bike, try a sportbike tyre up front, get the suspension modified (springs and damping) to suit your weight, and practice emergency stops from a low speed, gradually increasing the speed until your manly bits finally say "enough is enough", then do it all over again the next day (and periodically thereafter).

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I appreciate the insightful posts so far. Everyone would have his or her opinion on what's best or what could have been done. I am not as experienced as many of you on here, that's for sure.

One thing I would be doing for sure is more emergency braking practice...and looking out for a chance to score an ABS bike.

It's been 3 days and the only pain I feel is like I played a very physical game of soccer...i cannot be more thankful for this.

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Here some of the supporters of the Dutch soccer team routing for you as well

bavaria.jpg

bavaria-babes.png

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The front brake is really strong and grabbing a handful of brake will almost certainly put you on your a$$. You want a progressive grip on the brake: let the brakes grip and then put on the pressure. A sudden hard squeeze can result in so much weight shift that it can overwhelm the front tire, and down you go. Smoooooth is the key word when it comes to most braking.

It can be hard to practice braking right to the edge of adhesion because of the fear of dropping the bike.

Also if you are passing a line of cars like you were be sure you're in the far left of that lane. It will give you a little more cushion. And ALWAYS look several cars ahead as well as what is happening in your immediate area. Scan constantly.

Edited to change "cohesion" to "adhesion".

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Here some of the supporters of the Dutch soccer team routing for you as well

bavaria.jpg

bavaria-babes.png

I love me some Dutch supporters, especially during the Euros or World Cup. I sure wouldn't be looking at RvP or Robben next year. A damsel in orange is more fun to look at.

Thx for the pics

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Everyone has their opinion and it is just as valid as anyone else's... I would suggest that when practicing emergency braking, practice at the speeds you ride. I have read people repeatedly mentioning practicing in parking lots... if you ride at faster than parking lot speeds you need to practice braking at the speeds you ride.

Be smooth, I like and use the two finger covering the brake lever technique, practice when you ride, and be safe...

OP, I'm very glad you didn't suffer any significant injuries :cheerleader:

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Everyone has their opinion and it is just as valid as anyone else's... I would suggest that when practicing emergency braking, practice at the speeds you ride. I have read people repeatedly mentioning practicing in parking lots... if you ride at faster than parking lot speeds you need to practice braking at the speeds you ride.

Be smooth, I like and use the two finger covering the brake lever technique, practice when you ride, and be safe...

OP, I'm very glad you didn't suffer any significant injuries :cheerleader:

Good point Rush!

I practice in school parking lots on Sunday afternoons and regularly exceed 60 mph when practicing my emergency braking. It was an eye-opener for the boys when I last made them practice...

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Everyone has their opinion and it is just as valid as anyone else's... I would suggest that when practicing emergency braking, practice at the speeds you ride. I have read people repeatedly mentioning practicing in parking lots... if you ride at faster than parking lot speeds you need to practice braking at the speeds you ride.

There are a few points to starting slowly:

1: If you drop it at 10MPH, there will be less damage than dropping it at 60MPH

2: Starting at a slower speed gives a feel for the brakes at a less scary speed before moving up to higher speeds (ie: progressively increases skill and confidence before going to higher speeds - working up to 60MPH is far less daunting than doing a 60MPH emergency stop as the first port of call)

3: An understanding of the best possible stopping distance is gained for all speeds practiced

4: All emergency stops from higher speeds include hard braking from lower speeds, so practice at the lower speeds helps with the over-all goal of stopping as quickly as possible from higher speeds

Please note that someone who is very well acquainted with their brakes could simply go up to whatever speed and do an emergency stop as their regular practice, cutting out the lower speed practice, but someone who isn't that well versed in emergency stops is best to work up to it for safety's sake.

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The front brake is really strong and grabbing a handful of brake will almost certainly put you on your a$$. You want a progressive grip on the brake: let the brakes grip and then put on the pressure. A sudden hard squeeze can result in so much weight shift that it can overwhelm the front tire, and down you go. Smoooooth is the key word when it comes to most braking.

It can be hard to practice braking right to the edge of cohesion because of the fear of dropping the bike.

Also if you are passing a line of cars like you were be sure you're in the far left of that lane. It will give you a little more cushion. And ALWAYS look several cars ahead as well as what is happening in your immediate area. Scan constantly.

On my old rc24 i need to pull very hard before the bike is braking hard. But on the other hand the bike is able to lift the rear wheel with passsenger.

Most modern motorcycle brakes are way to agressive for the open road. Most motorcycle brakes are developed with track use in mind, giving us very strong agressive brakes, very useful on track, potentially deadly on road use, because they lock up easily when braking in panic.

So abs on a newer bike is a good option.

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I would suggest that when practicing emergency braking, practice at the speeds you ride. I have read people repeatedly mentioning practicing in parking lots... if you ride at faster than parking lot speeds you need to practice braking at the speeds you ride.

Highly agree. I have found a lot that when empty, allows for a good 50 - 55 mph acceleration before braking. Travelling perpendicular to the marked spaces allows me to use the white lines as a measuring device to track my progress in stopping faster each time. Try a brisk run across a parking lot and see how many parking spaces you pass before your boot touches the ground. After feeling pretty good about my stopping distances on my non ABS bikes, I have have since discovered (with ABS) that these bikes will stop much faster without a lock-up than I had imagined. I DO NOT USE ABS AS A SAFETY NET as previously suggested but more as a tool to find out just exactly how much more you can hammer the brakes before ABS takes over. I still stand by my earlier statement that ---> for the average rider <--- ABS will stop you faster than a non ABS bike without risk of front lock-up especially in a panic situation.

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