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Cam Chain Tensioner, Without Throttle Body Removal


Tightwad
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  • 9 months later...
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I did my front Cam Chain Tensioner today and took a few photos to show what I did. This is not the full sequence as that has already been done but simply my tips on achieving chain karma.

 

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Here I have split some of the harness connections and used a luggage strap to hold the rest of the harness out of the way. The luggage strap you see coming out of the frame to the rear is holding the famous coolant hose out of the way, you do not have to remove it.

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Here you see the problem with the coolant hose, it covers the lower CCT bolt and flange.

 

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Here you see the effect of the luggage strap pulling the hose out of the way. This give free access to the CCT. I used 1/4" drive sockets to access the bolts and forceps/pliers to manipulate the CCT key. Once the bolts are undone the CCT can be withdrawn and replaced quite easily. Being a bit lazy I did not remove the tank and was completed without any awkward nastiness.

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  • 1 year later...
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Hi peoples.

i have managed to remove the old cct.

one of my kids accidentally pulled the key,

can I still ahead putting it back in whilst it’s retracted?

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You can use the key to re-wind it by turning it clockwise.  Then re-install.  Not a big deal.  Don't forget that the washer on the bolt is aluminum - if you drop it a magnet will not retrieve it, so be careful on the front one (DAMHIK).

 

You have an interesting avatar - is that a Bently that's flooded?  Where was that photo taken?

 

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So insert the key, and twist clock wise?

how do I know when to stop?

 

ohh that avatar, was taken many many years ago, when they had heavy rain in Jakarta Indonesia 

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5 hours ago, N2v said:

So insert the key, and twist clock wise?

how do I know when to stop?

 

ohh that avatar, was taken many many years ago, when they had heavy rain in Jakarta Indonesia 

Just turn it until you feel sufficient resistance - you'll instinctively know when to stop.  Just don't reef on it trying to turn it too much - you'll probably either bend or break the key.  It's the same as you did to initially have the key in there before the little tyke took it out . . .  All you're doing is retracting the plunger - if you don't retract it exactly 100% it's not that big a deal.  You're just winding the tensioner spring to retract the plunger from the chain so that you can seat the tensioner properly to secure it with the bolts.  Then release it so the plunger once again contacts the guide/chain.  Do a youtube search on "rebuilding VFR tensioner" - the presenter shows the internals of how they work.  Actually, the best way to deal with CCT's on a 6th gen (or 8th for that matter) is not to deal with them - some of you know what I mean . . . :ph34r:

 

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If that is a Bently in the photo, thank God - better a Bently than a VFR!  :laugh:

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  • 1 month later...
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On 9/11/2009 at 5:05 PM, Rice said:

Good post, TW.

Just to add a little tidbit from personal experience.

If you do nothing else right, these three things MUST be done.

1 - Don't be a lazy bestid and remove that hose.

2 - The CCT CAN be removed w/o the little key. BUT Don't be a lazy bestid and use the key

3 - You could tighten the two CCT bolts by hand, BUT Don't be a lazy bestid and use the torque wrench.

Following these simple instructions will prevent a lot of gray hairs and you wouldn't have to post topics titled "Oooopppsss!!!"

Ask me how I know :blush::dry::rolleyes::ph34r:

11 years later, the truth lives.

 

Quick backstory - bought my 02 VFR used in 2012.  When I installed a K&N, I noticed the airbox velocity stack bolts were all stripped... odd, what did the PO do under the airbox?  A year later I installed a PC 5, had to go under the airbox - first extract the stripped screws [one was so bad I actually dremel'ed off the velocity stack for better access] no sign of damage or any other ham-fisted repairs/'upgrades', so who knows... forget about it.

 

To present - front CCT has been clacking off and on for a couple of years, seems to be getting more frequent.  "Just get on with it" - ordered a replacement.

 

I was all worried and worked up about dropping the damn 'cap' off the old CCT into the engine.  I got all set up, wires and hoses out of the way (TB still left on the bike)... put the ratchet on the top bolt of the CCT, removed, and the sealing washer falls off and under the TB/hoses where I simply can't get it.  Damnit.  You know its aluminum so a magnet won't work, but no worries, I check with local Honda and they actually have one in stock!  $2 and I'm back in business, ready to attempt the next day.

 

Put the ratchet on one of the two bolts which hold the CCT to the engine case, start turning, no resistance (thats weird, it seems loose already) and this is what I get:

 

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"3 - You could tighten the two CCT bolts by hand, BUT Don't be a lazy bestid and use the torque wrench."

 

Methinks the PO had replaced the CCT previously. [metal CAP was pinched on TIGHT, had to pry it off... very confident this had been replaced]

Methinks the PO did not use a torque wrench, look at the stretch on the intact bolt!  The head/cap literally just twisted off the first bolt, the second fortunately came out properly.

Methinks this is when the bonehead probably did the damage to the airbox bolts... ah well at least now I know.

 

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I was deathly afraid of scratching/grooving/damaging the mounting surface.  I was deathly afraid of drilling in crooked and catching the threads... I know thats not an 'end of the world' situation, but its one I have never dealt with, and its the top of the engine case!

 

Its also summer so I don't want the bike to be down for days/weeks/months... and I did NOT want to pull the TB and cooling hoses and start having to replace gaskets and seals and washers etc [that is a winter project next year when I have a garage instead of a driveway for a workshop].

 

Fortunately my Dremel fit between the frame and TB and let me get a drill bit on the stub.  I drilled off and on for part of 2 days, SLOWLY, CAREFULLY, with 2 different sized bits and the mounting surface taped off to minimize chance of damaging it.

 

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In the end I was fortunate and got the bolt out without doing any significant damage [pic shows some of the metal flakes from removal still around the hole, I have since cleaned that up with a Q-tip soaked in brake cleaner].  It was beer-o'clock so I had to stop there and do a victory lap.  Today I finish the CCT change.  I enlarged the gasket pinhole to 2.5mm so hopefully that helps this one last longer.

 

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DON'T OVER-TORQUE YOUR BOLTS!!! 😃

 

Update:  all back together

 

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What are the torque specifications please.

I can't find it in the sm. It mentions the cct flange bolts but not cct lifter bolts.

 

Cheers

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2 hours ago, boOZZIE said:

What are the torque specifications please.

I can't find it in the sm. It mentions the cct flange bolts but not cct lifter bolts.

 

Cheers

CCT flange bolts and CCT lifter bolts are the same thing, spec is 20ft-lb.

 

Post Edit - Sorry, Not correct, I got confused with the internal and external CCT's.! :wacko:

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I'm reading that as the internal cct bolt p297 sm not as the bolt for the external cct lifter or are they the same spec?

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1 hour ago, boOZZIE said:

I'm reading that as the internal cct bolt p297 sm not as the bolt for the external cct lifter or are they the same spec?

Ah yes, sorry, I see what you mean now.

They are talking about the Internal Cam Guide and the Internal Tensioner, not the external two bolts for the external CCT.

You're right, I can't seem to find a torque value for the two external CCT bolts. - Interesting. 

Also checked the 8gen Service Manual no luck.

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It is for sure concerning when threading steel bolts in to an aluminum engine case . . . When a torque value is not specified,  in the FSM  I look at other bolts with the the same diameter that thread in to the same or similar locations. So for example if those bolts are the same thread / diameter as the clutch cover or water pump bolts I use the torque spec for those as my "never exceed" value,  my reasoning being that the bolt / threads should be able to accept at least that value without stripping or breaking.  Presuming that the CCT bolts are the same,  I would think that the CCT wouldn't need to be any tighter than those other components.   

I may be FOS, but it has kept me out of trouble so far - knock on wood.  🙂

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  • 1 month later...

After firing up my 02 for the first time in 3-4 years it sounds like I need to change out my front CCT for the third time at 106k miles.

Because I'm old and lazy I will again us my method of removing nothing but the air box. Too lazy to mess with coolant and tiny hoses. lol

The rear CCT gets drenched in oil and rarely wears IMO so I won't touch it at all.

Ride-on brotha viffers

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RE: torque specs.  Some folks had posted a 20 ft lb torque spec based on an incorrect read of the manual. The manual does show 20 ft lbs for 2 cam chain tensioner flange bolts, those are different bolts (internal engine bolts).  The bolts for the external tensioner "Plunge" thingie are 5mm diameter bolts (M5) with an 8 mm hex head.  What confuses folks is that torque specs for a given bolt size is based on the thread diameter, not the hex head size.  The range for a metric M5 bolt is from 7-9 ft lbs.  Generally you can use the standard torque values found in various tables for a given bolt diameter if you lack specific torque values for a specific application.  The only variance would be in the grade of the bolts...a higher grade may allow a slightly higher torque value. 

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53 minutes ago, danll said:

RE: torque specs.  Some folks had posted a 20 ft lb torque spec based on an incorrect read of the manual. The manual does show 20 ft lbs for 2 cam chain tensioner flange bolts, those are different bolts (internal engine bolts).  The bolts for the external tensioner "Plunge" thingie are 5mm diameter bolts (M5) with an 8 mm hex head.  What confuses folks is that torque specs for a given bolt size is based on the thread diameter, not the hex head size.  The range for a metric M5 bolt is from 7-9 ft lbs.  Generally you can use the standard torque values found in various tables for a given bolt diameter if you lack specific torque values for a specific application.  The only variance would be in the grade of the bolts...a higher grade may allow a slightly higher torque value. 

Well stated danll.

Confusion bought about by poor terminology. The CCT's ARE the Internal devices, and the CCT-Lifter is the device we are so used to replacing, with the two M5 8mm Hex Head bolts.

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