Cam Chain Tensioner, Without Throttle Body Removal

[dutchinterceptor]

The bad: The constant noise is mostly gone but I can still hear an intermittent rattle/tick/noise so either my back one is bad too or something else is amiss.

Its hit or miss to get a tentioner that doesnt rattle , just look at those who've replaced them multiple times even at best they dont rattle for a while , being you did get change on the issue , says you replaced the right part.

You probably seen my mention on the issue with oil type that corrected my noise and it was loud& Kronic , but I recently noticed The oil hole through the gasket can barely fit a needle through, I wonder if increasing that hole would free the oil flow alittle and aide with the body rattle, so people can use what ever oil they want and be noise free.

Turns out I only heard a minor rattle on the couple miles back to my house. After that....dead quiet! So far after 3K miles it's silent.

[Tightwad]

The bad: The constant noise is mostly gone but I can still hear an intermittent rattle/tick/noise so either my back one is bad too or something else is amiss.

Its hit or miss to get a tentioner that doesnt rattle , just look at those who've replaced them multiple times even at best they dont rattle for a while , being you did get change on the issue , says you replaced the right part.

You probably seen my mention on the issue with oil type that corrected my noise and it was loud& Kronic , but I recently noticed The oil hole through the gasket can barely fit a needle through, I wonder if increasing that hole would free the oil flow alittle and aide with the body rattle, so people can use what ever oil they want and be noise free.

Turns out I only heard a minor rattle on the couple miles back to my house. After that....dead quiet! So far after 3K miles it's silent.

3K miles in a month??? Did you take another trip? My bike went a whopping 2 feet in the last 2 months...and that was 2 feet to the right so I could get better access all around it.

[vfrqqq]

So after sitting down and figuring out how the CCT works I am a bit sad that I ended up spending the ~$100 on a new CCT to have at the ready for a replacement. I am sternly in the camp that CCTs DON'T "go bad" but rather only require adjustment. Ultimately, as Tightwad mentioned, all you really end up doing is increasing the tension on the spring that extends the tensioner shaft.

This write up details how to adjust the tension on the CCT thereby preventing the need for a replacement. I took pictures of the new CCT that I purchased, however the procedure is no different with a CCT that has been removed by the correct procedure as detailed above. After you follow the directions for removing the CCT you may attempt to adjust the tension by this procedure instead of replacing. In the end I do not know how much tension is the right amount and basically just adjusted mine until I didn't have a noisy CCT anymore.

1. After your CCT is removed the tensioner shaft should be completely retracted and the stopper key in the end of the CCT body as shown below.

SANY0014.JPG

2. Now you need to remove the circle clip that holds the locking tab in place (ignore the fact that the tensioner shaft is extended in this picture). I show here pushing it down toward the CCT body so that at the end you only just need to slide it back up into place.

SANY0043.JPG

3. With the key still in place, slide the locking tab up the tensioner shaft and unscrew the shaft until it is almost fully extended and then lower the locking tab back into place.

SANY0036.JPG

With the locking tab in place and the shaft fully extended, the spring is effectively locked in place.

SANY0037.JPG

If the locking tab doesn't slide all the way into the slots then screw the shaft down until the locking tab fits all the way down into the four slots.

Hold the locking tab down with a finger and remove the key from the back of the CCT. Shaft may move a bit, but should be at the end of its travel which thereby prevents the spring from unwinding. At this point the spring has about the same amount of tension on it as before it was removed, however the shaft is extended now and the tension on the spring can be increased.

4. To increase the tension on the spring insert a screw driver and turn it clockwise. As you do this the tensioner shaft will withdraw into the CCT body.

SANY0039.JPG

Now, how much tension you add to the spring is up to you. I do not know how much is the right amount. When I was messing with it I ended up releasing all the tension on the spring. From this point I chose 5 full revolutions on the spring for the tension I wanted (NOTE: you can really only get 4 revolutions at the most before you will need to reinsert the locking key, unscrew the shaft so that you can get the fifth full turn). I do not know how much tension this is relative to a normally, non-noisy CCT, however I do know that it no longer makes the knocking noise. This is due to the fact that there is now sufficient tension on the spring so that it is now able to keep the tensioner shaft forced up against the cam chain guide. If you do not end up releasing all the tension on the spring as I did then you may only want to add one or two full turns of tension to the spring and then return the shaft back to its original position. Is it pushing too hard? I don't know and you will have to use your own judgment on this.

5. After you have adjusted the tension to your liking keep pressure on the tensioner shaft stopper and insert the locking key into the CCT.

SANY0040.JPG

6. repeat step 3. You have now added tension to the spring and have the shaft extended all the way out.

7. Remove the key and insert the screwdriver. Withdraw the tensioner shaft all the way, put pressure on the shaft and insert the key back into the CCT.

SANY0045.JPG

SANY0046.JPG

8. You are now ready to reinstall the CCT back into the motor.

From my understanding of the mechanics of the CCT I believe that using a lighter oil may keep a noisy CCT from being noisy. The spring in the CCT is quite has many windings and using a heavier oil will increase the amount of friction between the windings in the spring. If the spring has already lost a bit of its tension then the additional friction will prevent it from extending the tensioner shaft that much more. A lighter oil will reduce the friction, however, in the end, the spring has still lost some tension and likely needs to be wound up a bit.

If this doesn't clear it up I would recommend either purchasing a new CCT and fiddling around with it or pulling an existing CCT from your motor (make sure you count the number of turn before all tension is released from the spring!!) and figure it out. It is a neat little piece of engineering to figure out if you don't already know how it works.

Edited January 2, 2010 by vfrqqq

[Baileyrock]

Nice job and write-up to the both of you! :beer:

I did my CTT's doing the same method as Tightwad used, except I didn't drain any antifreeze or remove that little hose which makes it harder, but doable. :goofy:

vfrqqq,

Nice work, but I think it might be possible to have too much tension. I'm not sure, but if it's possible to say double the spring tension over stock it may actually cause premature guide rail wear. That would be my only concern with this mod, because if in fact that is possible you would end up having to disassemble some of the head to replace the guide rails instead of just the tensioner.

Like I said, I do NOT know if that is an issue or not. Too bad you can't determine what the new tensioner has for tension. :goofy:

[vfrqqq]

Yes, quite true. Of course if I hadn't been so cavalier about taking about my new CCT I could have figured it out. D'oh!

There has to be a way to find out what that tension should be right? I mean a dealership would need to know that if they were trying to repair a CCT. Then again maybe they would just replace it and stick you with the bill.

Well, if anyone knows then it's the perfect way to fix a noisy CCT with $0 spent!

[Baileyrock]

Yes, quite true. Of course if I hadn't been so cavalier about taking about my new CCT I could have figured it out. D'oh!

There has to be a way to find out what that tension should be right? I mean a dealership would need to know that if they were trying to repair a CCT. Then again maybe they would just replace it and stick you with the bill.

Well, if anyone knows then it's the perfect way to fix a noisy CCT with $0 spent!

No, it's a Great idea! Yep, Too bad you didn't count the turns on the new one. Next time. :goofy:

[vfrqqq]

Of course, there are two CCTs and I haven't messed with the other one.

I'll have to update once I do that.

[Guest jeffro-vfr]

BIG THANKS TO EVERYONE WITH ADVICE FOR CAM CHAIN TENSIONERS! INFO WAS VERY HELPFUL. I HAD AN INTERMITTENT TAPPING (LOOSE VALVETRAIN TYPE)LIKE A TYPEWRITER EVEN. I ASSUMED VALVES OUT OF ADJUSTMENT... UNTIL I SAW THIS BLOG. LO AND BEHOLD! NO MORE NOISE AFTER CHANGING CCTs. NO MORE DANG NOISE!!!

IN ADDITION, A COUPLE OF TWEAKS I MADE TO THEIR EXCELLENT STEP BY STEP.

1. I DIDN'T TAKE OFF THE FAIRING.

2. I DIDN'T DISCONNECT THE COOLANT HOSE. WORKED AROUND IT. MAKES IT MORE DIFFICULT THOUGH. USING 1/4 " SOCKET SET GIVES MORE CLEARANCE.

3. MAKE SURE AFTER CHANGING REAR CCT BEHIND BLACK EXHAUST SHIELD RIGHT SIDE, THAT REAR BRAKE ACTUATOR FUNCTIONS PROPERLY (AFTER REASSEMBLING FOOT PEG AND SHIELD). MAKE SURE BRAKE LIGHT COMES ON WHEN REAR BRAKE ENGAGED SLIGHTLY. IT SHOULDN'T STAY ON...NOR SHOULD YOU HAVE TO PRESS HARD ON BRAKE PEDAL.

THANKS AGAIN TO ALL! YOU SAVED ME A BUCKET OF CASH!!!

[Auspanglish]

Of course, there are two CCTs and I haven't messed with the other one.

I'll have to update once I do that.

So did you ever get stuck into the other one?? Any way you could orientate me on how many turns??

I hadn't returned to this thread and just saw your input... way to go mate!!!

[spud786]

So far Im the only one whos replaced a front tensioner without even removing the airbox

[Auspanglish]

BTW, where do you get the key?

[dutchinterceptor]

BTW, where do you get the key?

New CCT's come with a new but very small key. Otherwise, you can fabricate your own per dimensions listed in the service manual.

[Guest redsars]

I am replacing my CCTs this weekend, and am confused as to how to use the key. Do you just slide it in to lock the tensioner, or do you have to twist it to retract the tensioner ? These step by step guides are great !

[Auspanglish]

I am replacing my CCTs this weekend, and am confused as to how to use the key. Do you just slide it in to lock the tensioner, or do you have to twist it to retract the tensioner ? These step by step guides are great !

In my case, the internal slot (not the "larger" hole you see on the surface when you remove the cover bolt) into which the longer thinner part of the key fits, wasn't in line with the X shaped recesses which stop the key from turning, I pushed the key in as far as it would go and discovered the longer thinner part would engage with the internal slot enough to be able to turn the key those 45º required to be able to get the key all the way in, and when this happens, the square "head" of the key sits in the locking recesses and this is the position you're looking for.

There is no need to apply much force to the key. Apparently it is easy to bend the key so don't use excessive force. It's dead easy, slip the key in, turn it that quarter turn if your inner slot isn't alligned with the outer locking recesses and finish fitting the key all the way in so it locks in place.

You don't twist it any more than those 45º (if yours isn't alligned) to retract anything... the tensioner shaft is already retracted.

Careful not to lose the bolts in the engine bay and when reassembling, swab on some fresh oil to the gasket (it's metal) so it sticks to the tensioner body and doesn't get dislodged while you're trying to get the thing back into place through the tight gap... if you disconnect a few vacume tubes and electrical connectors you'll have more hand room but it's still tricky not to lose a bolt... it takes steady hands.

I unfortunately suffered the same fate as vfrqqq who describes the tensioning of the spring... mine unwound completely... holding the locking tab when releasing the key proved to be impossible in my case... the shaft wanted out and my fingers aren't all that strong... I was groping around for a pair of lockable thin-nosed pliers.. should have used them in the first place... I highly recommend this as then you can work from OEM tension, giving it one full turn or 1.5 turns more and you know for sure it's got more load on the spring... I, like vfrqqq, was unsure as to how many turns to give the thing... you get 4 until you have to work the shaft out again, just like the man says... I gave mine 5.5 turns... oh, another thing vfrqqq doesn't mention is that you have to put the circlip back in place there around step 7... before removing the key and sticking the screwdriver in to retract the shaft for refitting the part on the bike... you will realize it's necessary if you have your wits about you...

I wacked it back on the bike but it still makes the CCT noise... I worked on the front one... now to try the rear one...

I just finshed doing this just now... will get photos up and more comments when I'm done...

[Auspanglish]

BTW, where do you get the key?

New CCT's come with a new but very small key. Otherwise, you can fabricate your own per dimensions listed in the service manual.

I get along really well with the local stealers 8although I almost never buy anything there and have only used their mechanics once some 4 years ago), and a friend of mine recently got a job in the workshop reception... so I dropped in and just asked if they had a spare key... they have to have hundreds of them lying around... easy as pie!!

[Auspanglish]

Well just did the second one, the rear one... way easy access and as always, the second time you do something you were previously unfamilar with, the easier it is.... although this time I used locking pliers on the tab, this one was much greasier and slipped out of my hands like a fish and the bloody key jumped out and... BUGGER!! Same boat, same fish... this time 6 full turns...

Bike still makes the CCT noise on giving her a good fistfull of throttle and letting off completely all sudden like...

I guess I'll do it again Sam tomorrow and give them both a couple of turns more and see if there's any luck... if not, will have to fork out the dough. (Muttley mumble "rasafrasarasafrasa).

[robwalmsley]

its been very informative and helpfull reading this maintenance guide when my 4 th gen starts rattling ill know what to do.

[Guest redsars]

I am replacing my CCTs this weekend, and am confused as to how to use the key. Do you just slide it in to lock the tensioner, or do you have to twist it to retract the tensioner ? These step by step guides are great !

Well mine are done...changed front and rear. Getting that airbox off was the most difficult part, the rest quite straightforward. The horrible rattle has disappeared so i will keep my fingers crossed that my problem is fixed....now I just need to find the time to do the valves !

Thanks to the contributions on this thread, helped me immensely.

[spud786]

I am replacing my CCTs this weekend, and am confused as to how to use the key. Do you just slide it in to lock the tensioner, or do you have to twist it to retract the tensioner ? These step by step guides are great !

THe main purpose of the key is after you wind up the cct for replacement, it will lock it so it doesnt uncoil. You dont have to use it removing a cct , but you can and it will lock it while removing,

[Auspanglish]

FUnny thing... while working away on the rear one... and listening after tensing the rear CTT... lo and behold it would appear the noise my VTEc's been making is due to a bung exhaust seal on one of the two joints just inside of the roight foot... header pipes I believe... rattling like a rattle snake at idel and 3000 RPM and when backing off a fistful of gas... got a set of locakble BF Pliers on there and noise disappears... currently using a metal radiator hose collar fixer thingy to keep it stable...

These things hard to swap out?? Any special tips from anyone to save finding things out the hard way??

Lucky number 19:

Probably getting into an even bigger can of worms... never worked on the exhaust before...

[Auspanglish]

I have the answer to VFRQQQs question (and mine)... as to how much preload the spring gets out of the factory...

The official Honda answer is "NONE"... this means that the 4 turns required to retract the pusher piston all the way in ONCE is how the CCT comes OEM, either on the bike or out of the box...

Once placed in the motor and the key removes it extends all it can up against the guide...

So you guessed rather well there... giving it one full turn more is not going too far... I gave it 2 full turns more... I don't think that's overdoing it either... it's a very flimsy spring, so I doubt 50% more will cause premature wear anywhere...

It was Honda Montesa the Official Honda Distributor in Spain who answered my quiery.

This time thanks are in order... but they should get their act together with the recalls...

[Auspanglish]

BTW, this thread is worth thumbtacking/pinning... don't ya think?? BR... HS... Bueller???

[Guest Devochka]

Great thread! Thank you for taking the time to take such clear pics and posting it!

It's good to read this thread, my 2003 VTECker has some 60,000 km on the clock and I'm only just starting to hear the odd CCT noise on letting off the throttle after giving it lots of gas... "blipping the throttle" so to speak. I know the sound oh too well from an old 1971 Toyota Hiace I had way back when... must've changed the CCT 3 times... in one year.

If you're needing to replace the CCTs 3 times a year, wouldn't that mean that something else is amiss (loose chain?) and you would have to fix that?

I've been told that I need to replace my CCTs but also more likely, need to replace the chains (front and back to be sure). Apart from giving the CCTs a go, is there any other test I could do to see whether its just the CCTs that are worn, or the chains are dodgey too?

The more you ride with dodgey CCTs, are you more likely to ruin/stretch the chains? Or is it just the fear of the chains skipping a tooth and stuffing up your engine the main worry?

(Sorry for all the questions! I'm very n00bish and trying to get my head around this before I fork out big bucks to get it fixed).

Edited March 16, 2013 by Devochka

[spud786]

Great thread! Thank you for taking the time to take such clear pics and posting it!

It's good to read this thread, my 2003 VTECker has some 60,000 km on the clock and I'm only just starting to hear the odd CCT noise on letting off the throttle after giving it lots of gas... "blipping the throttle" so to speak. I know the sound oh too well from an old 1971 Toyota Hiace I had way back when... must've changed the CCT 3 times... in one year.

If you're needing to replace the CCTs 3 times a year, wouldn't that mean that something else is amiss (loose chain?) and you would have to fix that?

I've been told that I need to replace my CCTs but also more likely, need to replace the chains (front and back to be sure). Apart from giving the CCTs a go, is there any other test I could do to see whether its just the CCTs that are worn, or the chains are dodgey too?

The more you ride with dodgey CCTs, are you more likely to ruin/stretch the chains? Or is it just the fear of the chains skipping a tooth and stuffing up your engine the main worry?

(Sorry for all the questions! I'm very n00bish and trying to get my head around this before I fork out big bucks to get it fixed).

The honda ccts are just a pore excuse for not a precision made item, the plunger fits loosley in the body, they can rattle brand new or down the road. Its nothing to do with the chain, its the cct plunger in its body that rattles. Some may think its the chain buts its not.

Edited March 16, 2013 by spud786

[Auspanglish]

The honda ccts are just a pore excuse for not a precision made item, the plunger fits loosley in the body, they can rattle brand new or down the road. Its nothing to do with the chain, its the cct plunger in its body that rattles. Some may think its the chain buts its not.

I thought OEM items were precision made ones... at least you claim their stators are.