Trackbike Build - From Scratch

[MVinOZ]

I have bought a 2002 VFR800. Big deal, you've probably all got them...

This is mine:

 

 

 

I didn't take it apart, I have no experience with them & there are a few vital parts missing.

I am very good at Lego however

(That, BTW, is the best smiley I've ever seen.)

Some googling tells me all those parts, plus the slightly important missing parts, add up to about 260kg

Something will need to be done about that. The bike will be a trackbike, so light weight is the name of the game, also low budget! Mostly low budget. Minimal engineering would be ideal, I don't have anything too advanced, nor could I really be bothered. Bolt on parts are good.

(What have people got these down too without carbon fibre washers & titanium lug nuts?)

The subframe has to go. Or go on a diet. The linked brakes need to go. PAIR needs to go, but I think that is sorted. SSSA should stay, despit being heavier than a regular swingarm (low cost remember). The front end needs to be replaced, Ideally with a USD R1/R6 front end, with Radially mounted Goldspot calipers & matching Radial M/C...

Hehe... Where was I? Oh yes, budget will proabably dictate an F4i front end if I can find one cheap enough, or even a Thundercat front end... I will be looking for cheap parts at all time of course.

The (IIRC) 2001 master cylinder from the R1 is a cast Brembo unit, I run it on my TRX with the non-radial Goldspot calipers, from my research they should be functionally the same as the radial mounted version, same piston part numbers you see ;)

Ok, down to brass tacks: I am missing an ECU, rear wheel, exhaust headers & various other small bits & pieces, I intend to buy these as cheaply as possible as I go, starting with the most important, which I'd say would be the ECU, then headers. Ironically, I have found a cheap ($40) VTR1000 subframe which may work. The best laid plans hey... Or in this case barely thought out ones.

Step 1. Clean shed. This happens rarely. Don't ask.

Step 2. Move this:

(if anyone knows a source for headstem bearings that don't exist because the inner dimension is impossibly close to the outer dimension to work, I'm all ears!)

Step 3. Add Engine

& that's it for now. I need to do the valve shims on the engine, add a clutch cover gasket, then start cleaning the engine & swingarm & do a stocktake. Ideally I'll find an american ECU while this is happening & sell off some superflous parts to pay for it.

[Mohawk]

Well if its going on track, I'd ditch the SSSA & get a CBR954 unit, as you need the rear wheel this will save you money & weight as well as improving the handling !

Build your own alloy subframe as a single seater & buy a cheap fibreglass 250 tail unit. Do whatever needs doing to get a good frontend.

Ditch the Vtec if possible, you can swap the valve parts on the vtec valves for the non vtec ones to get a simple 4 valves per cylinder all the time. Get a PC3 or PC5 to sort the fuelling. Make a set of headers, or look for Erion or TBR headers secondhand.

The motor weighs approx 75Kg & there is not much you can do about that :( With some diligent purchasing you should be able to get the dry weight down to around 150Kg.

Ditch the airbox & tank & make an airbox & fuel cell for the track, again will save alot of weight & get you a bigger airbox for better track performance, build it with ramair under the headstock !

That will keep you going for a while :)

[Rush2112]

Well if its going on track, I'd ditch the SSSA & get a CBR954 unit, as you need the rear wheel this will save you money & weight as well as improving the handling !

Will a CBR929 swing arm and wheel work on a 5th gen? What are the differences between a 929 & 954?

[mk2davis]

I've only needed https://www.allballsracing.com/ for my bearings, regardless of vintage. They are far from a secret, you may have contacted them already.

How's your plastic?

[CornerCarver]

If you want to run the 6G motor WITHOUT Vtec (as recommended by Mohawk) I believe that I have stumbled across a simple way to make that happen while mounting a 5G engine in a 6G Bike (frame, instruments wiring harness everything other than engine is 6G).

Let me know if you are interested but you will have to play with your fuel maps and it seems like a lot of work for questionable results.

[kaldek]

If you want to run the 6G motor WITHOUT Vtec (as recommended by Mohawk) I believe that I have stumbled across a simple way to make that happen while mounting a 5G engine in a 6G Bike (frame, instruments wiring harness everything other than engine is 6G).

Don't go there - the 6th-gen coils on the 5th-gen motor are a total pain in the ass. I think it's MiniCarver who is doing it at the moment and we've had a bunch of discussions about the issues.

Some googling tells me all those parts, plus the slightly important missing parts, add up to about 260kg

Nah. Dry weight for a 2002 was 212kg. If you eradicate the exhaust (8-10kg) and stock subframe (about the same), you're under 200kg dry.

PAIR needs to go, but I think that is sorted.

Yup, it's already blocked off with those anodized plates on top of the rocker covers. Airbox will need a small rubber cap over the PAIR hose hole too (rear left of airbox) to complete the job.

[YoshiHNS]

If you want to get extreme, ditch all the steel hardware for aluminum, except for the important ones. Of course, that's pretty much the last possible step that will suck the most money out of your pocket.

I think I've seen the R1 swingarm done on a 4th gen.

[MVinOZ]

On 8/31/2013 at 1:53 AM, mk2davis said:

I've only needed https://www.allballsracing.com/ for my bearings, regardless of vintage. They are far from a secret, you may have contacted them already.

How's your plastic?

I'll check out All Balls, thanks for the lead. Plastics are missing except left & right hand main fairing, not a priority at this point. Will probably get some Chinese fibreglass when the time is right.

On 9/1/2013 at 9:13 AM, kaldek said:

On 8/31/2013 at 7:50 AM, CornerCarver said:

If you want to run the 6G motor WITHOUT Vtec (as recommended by Mohawk) I believe that I have stumbled across a simple way to make that happen while mounting a 5G engine in a 6G Bike (frame, instruments wiring harness everything other than engine is 6G).

Don't go there - the 6th-gen coils on the 5th-gen motor are a total pain in the ass. I think it's MiniCarver who is doing it at the moment and we've had a bunch of discussions about the issues.

On 8/30/2013 at 10:09 PM, MVinOZ said:

Some googling tells me all those parts, plus the slightly important missing parts, add up to about 260kg

Nah. Dry weight for a 2002 was 212kg. If you eradicate the exhaust (8-10kg) and stock subframe (about the same), you're under 200kg dry.

On 8/30/2013 at 10:09 PM, MVinOZ said:

PAIR needs to go, but I think that is sorted.

Yup, it's already blocked off with those anodized plates on top of the rocker covers. Airbox will need a small rubber cap over the PAIR hose hole too (rear left of airbox) to complete the job.

OK, 212KG is not too shabby actually. Exhaust is going, will probably stick with standard subframe for now.

On 9/1/2013 at 11:16 AM, YoshiHNS said:

If you want to get extreme, ditch all the steel hardware for aluminum, except for the important ones. Of course, that's pretty much the last possible step that will suck the most money out of your pocket.

I think I've seen the R1 swingarm done on a 4th gen.

Goal is low cost at this point, so swingarm swap is out of the question. Plus it's very distinctive, couldn't get rid of it!

Speaking of low cost, elbow grease is free, so it's time for some cleaning. Brilliant day here today, first day of spring & fathers days also.

Start with this

Add degreaser, leave, pressure wash off.

Coming along nicely, time for a beer!

Degreaser & pressure cleaner got most of it done, next step was degreaser & a brush.

Would have liked to do the same to the engine, but I need a new clutch cover gasket first. Ordered one, about $35! That's the budget blown for this week Should be here tomorrow though.

Hello fuel injection, nice to meet you. Kaldek was nioce enough to reassemble all of this for me, I just need to reinstall the injectors.

Bit dirty, but I can fix that.

Better.

Whipped the clutch cover off the install this little doohickey:

Hopefully it's in the right place, there appears to be 2 points it could be mounted. Pretty sure it's right.

I have decided to use the stock rear caliper & master cylinder for now, I'll just rebuild the caliper & use a bridge between the two inlets.

It'll need a clean first!

I found all the parts for the caliper rebuild in a box provided, so that's another thing I can do for free. Turns out I'll need inlet stub rubbers & throttle cables too, so I've chucked some excess bits up for sale in the classifieds to pay for that.

Keeping a keen eye out for an ECU & some exhausts!

Turns out there's a dirtbike wrecker just literally down the road from me with an earlier VFR up for grabs! I've got a day off tomorrow so I'll go & see what bits are left & if they can be had for reasonable prices.

Wish me luck.

[Auspanglish]

You didn't need to spend any money on a new gasket when you can make your own with any old paper bag, like the old grocery store paper bags.. The ones from IKEA are perfect and cost like 10 cents..

Tap lightly, the cover is aluminium.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=otK1GamS3wk&desktop_uri=/watch?v=otK1GamS3wk

[MVinOZ]

You didn't need to spend any money on a new gasket when you can make your own with any old paper bag, like the old grocery store paper bags.. The ones from IKEA are perfect and cost like 10 cents.. Tap lightly, the cover is aluminium. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=otK1GamS3wk&desktop_uri=/watch?v=otK1GamS3wk

True, I never thought of that! I've actually got gasket paper kicking around, but it isn't big enough for the clutch cover.

Ah well, next time.

[MVinOZ]

No progress to speak of, just taking stock & organising.

I've been playing out various scenarios with the build in my head, but they all take about 6 months, some longer...

Get it up & running with stock parts, then do an R1 USD front end conversion later, do the front end conversion now with F4i forks, rebuild the stock forks... etc.

The problem with doing an USD conversion right now is money, R1 front ends are going for around $1000-1200, plus a wheel. The problem with going stock is adding up all the prices of the stock parts comes in around the same! Obviously this could be done in stages, but still... We're saving for a US trip at the moment, plus some medical bills that need sorting & both the car & bike rego are due! Terrible timing

So I have hacked a new motto out of the English language: "Do it proper, take longer"

I'll start putting some cash together for the big things, get an ECU, exhaust & oil cooler in the mean time as they come up, do all the engine work that's basically free & get as much assembled as I can in the meantime.

I'll get some new vernier calipers on the weekend & get the valves & right hand crankcase cover done, then I can start putting the engine in the frame & doing little things, like disassembling & greasing the eccentric hub, working out where the wiring goes, etc.

If there's any maintenance issues that should be done while I'm at it, let me know!

Also contemplating keeping a running $ tally of the build, but I KNOW that's a bad idea!

[MVinOZ]

Hello people, long time, no see!

Some nice things are happening in my shed.

These turned up from Partzilla:

Throttle body rubbers & clamps, throttle cables, rear swingarm bolt & some assorted missing bolts.

This turned up:

I lowballed some wrecker in the US & he accepted! Hopefully it should work with one of my looms...

& I managed to snaffle this for a bargain price:

It's in really good nick, plenty of meat on the brake pads & dics & comes with the master cylinder as well!

However, it's not the front end I'm going to use. Crazy huh?

I'm going to flip this because I've found another front end already sprung for my weight, completely rebuilt forks & brake calipers, with braided lines & a proper radial Brembo master cylinder

It's expensive, but not overly... Cheaper than doing all that to this front end anyway. Cash is the next issue, I am available for small odd jobs, nothing sexual of course. That costs extra.

I've hopefully got some decat headers lined up from a local guy over here, then all I need is an oil cooler & I should be able to fire her up & start stripping down the wiring loom.

Of course I'll need to finish setting the valve clearances (how simple & elegant is that VTEC system?), which I've been lazy & avoided doing because, you know, math.

Things are happening!

[Dannytb]

Nice to see the progress so far, Mick. Let me know if you need a hand with anything, and I'll see what I can do to go and help. :-)

[spinalator]

Good work, sounds like you are having fun

[mk2davis]

I know it's not the most expensive thing, and that you'll need to do it right eventually, but it seems like you could skip the oil cooler by just running a flex tube from the in and out.

[VFR4Lee]

So by scratch, you mean starting with a basket case.

Err, several boxes mostly from the same bike.

Most builds seem to start with a wrecked or broken bike.

Someone saved you some work by taking it all apart I guess.

Keep updating as you go.

I'll stick with looking at other peoples projects, and riding.

I haven't the time, work space, or skill to do the projects.

But I can appreciate a good one.

Hmm, in a way it's like music. I like that too, but sure can't make it.

[Veefer800Canuck]

Good stuff, keep it up, can't wait to see the finished product!

[Dannytb]

I know it's not the most expensive thing, and that you'll need to do it right eventually, but it seems like you could skip the oil cooler by just running a flex tube from the in and out.

I wouldn't do that. VFR's really need the oil cooler.

[MVinOZ]

Howdy strangers!

A bit of progress, busted out the angle grinder & made some VTEC shims to check the clearances:

Start with some steel rod & notch a piece around 2.5-3mm, (thicker rather than thinner, as you can grind to spec before you remove the shim from the bar)

Before you lop this one off, start the next one

About 8 should do the trick!

A valve lapping tool is ideal for removing the shim buckets, clearances are all pretty good, got a couple to juggle around, but I have a shim kit. Might need to swap over a few of the VTEC buckets, haven't really looked at the figures yet, just measured & notated.

Picked up a 46mm socket to attack the rear hub, cush drive & eccentric. I suspect they are fine, I wanted to be sure & regrease the eccentric to be on the safe side.

The degreaser did a number on the plastic axle cap!

Never mind, I'll be getting/making a rear axle slider with paddock stand bobbins anyway, that way I can use my current paddock stand

Rear axle nut was a right bastard, but with some heat, some penetrating spray & rattle gun, after the third day, she came off!

This is what I found, not a great start

Still yet to remove the cush drive & the axle, I'm not looking forward to what I find in there... Probably need a puller at least, maybe even a shop press. At least the swingarm is off the bike & relatively portable. Cleaned all that up with a wire brush attachment on a dremel & it's soaking in penetrating fluid for now. A problem for later.

I have been playing around with the R1 front end, bit of info in this thread: http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/66526-r1-usd-fork-swap/

So I won't go over it twice!

The VFR & R1 have the same bottom bearing dimensions, 55mm OD, 33mm ID & 17mm high (R1 is the same top & bottom) & the stems lengths are similar, so I figured if I can find the right top bearing, the swap is pretty straight forward.

I could only find a bearing that was 12mm high, but the race heights are 5.45 for the VFR ball bearing & 9.0mm for the chinese tapered roller bearing.

Bearing heights overall with their respective bits, pretty close.

[Switchblade]

Wow not good, it's a good thing you disassemble the rear drive.

[MVinOZ]

Long story short, it works!

Happy days!

I had to drive the top bearing home by tightening the nut, not ideal, but I suspect that more about the shitty chinese bearing than anything else. The headstem will need to go in & out a few more time while I work on the bump stops & I don't think the bearing will hold up, but I have a spare.

You can see the marks here

Speaking of bump stops, you'll probably notice I removed them!

It's a work in progress, but I think I might be getting OCD... I decided to remove the cast marks while I was there & the top triple will be getting the same treatment. Could be a slippery slope!

I found an exhaust on eBay, it's bent but it's a 98 or 99 model no cat. So I had a bid & won it for... $1. Plus $25 freight. Might be scrap metal, but I'll see if I can make it work. It didn't some with rear down pipes, but I found some in the states for $14. Plus $38 shipping! Still, if I can make it work, that a whole de-cat exhaust for under $100. Might have to get into the freight business, they must be making a killing.

I also spent a bit of time today researching wheels, car wheels specifically! More on that later.

[Yokel]

Fun read, like the progress! Good luck!

[MVinOZ]

Wow not good, it's a good thing you disassemble the rear drive.

I haven't actually got it apart yet... I considered putting it back together & ignoring it, but that ain't right.

I am on the lookout for a shop press, I'll be able to do headstem bearings then, too.

Between working out the offset, spacers & the bead problems, I've pretty much given up on the car wheel idea. I might re-visit it in the future, right now I'm just waiting for a reasonably priced rear wheel to come up.

[Switchblade]

Wow not good, it's a good thing you disassemble the rear drive.

I haven't actually got it apart yet... I considered putting it back together & ignoring it, but that ain't right.

I am on the lookout for a shop press, I'll be able to do headstem bearings then, too.

Between working out the offset, spacers & the bead problems, I've pretty much given up on the car wheel idea. I might re-visit it in the future, right now I'm just waiting for a reasonably priced rear wheel to come up.

Yeah, but you got the 46mm nut removed ..

[MVinOZ]

On 11/30/2013 at 1:45 PM, Switchblade said:

Yeah, but you got the 46mm nut removed ..

Quite true! I thought that would be the hard part...

After a bit of head scratching I got to work.

 

It was 33 degress Celsius here today & I'm Australian, so I was working in shorts, thongs & a singlet. I don't think I _actually_ caught on fire, but I came pretty close. (Ah, hang on... thong, no, not that sort, the other sort. Flip flops? Not sure what you guys call them...)

After about an hour or so of angle grinding, all those cutting discs & some upset neighbors, I had this:

I cut it down to about 600mm long, rounded off all the sharp edges & stuck it in this shop press I bought yesterday

Like so.

Using a shop press for the first time is a pretty nerve wracking experience, the first thing I did was press in a pitbike headstem I had lying around & then I played around pressing out some bearings. It's only a 6 ton press, but they sure let go with a bang!

Everything is lined up, I put a thin sheet of aluminium (or is that aluminum? ) between the axle & the block, just in case.

Movement at the station...

 

 

Bit of a bang, & she's off.

 

 

 

 

Of course, when it let go, my L shaped pieces of steel also fell off the bench... & straight toward my thonged foot.

Now, oddly enough, (because I'm Australian, remember), I wasn't drunk at this point, so I was able to move my foot out of the way before it got sliced off, but it was a close call! Safety first kids...

This is why I'm glad I went to the effort:

None of the cush drive rubbers were connected, they look to be in OK shape though. I will replace anyway, plus the axle will be easier to remove next time.

Speaking of the axle, it appears to have rusted itself to the cush drive where the splines are & at the cush drive bearing:

I cleaned it up with the wire brush attachment on the bench grinder, there is a lot of pitting, but I think I can save it. (Pic is before) The actual axle bearing surfaces are fine, no rust there. I'm curious to know how Kaldek treated it when he did the bearings so I can avoid this in the future. A good polish & plenty of grease should do the job, hopefully.