Yet Another Brake Pedal Issue After Bls Block Install.

[marriedman]

Everything was going along so well. Slow going, but well enough. After getting my wheels back on the bike I got to try out my lower blocks I installed. The gear shift and brake really needed to be adjusted. Shifting arm of course was a piece of cake. I lowered the brake pedal as low as I could and of course it wasn't far enough.

So I go back to VeeferCanuk's thread here:http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/34097-bls-footpeg-block-install/?p=408490

The part specifically that started this whole damnedable mess was trying to figure out how to take off the nut that Veefer circled in red here:

If you go to the bottom of the brake pedal, there is that gold square. How the F#@K do i get that thing off? I go to the service manual - it just says to take the whole goddamned off without saying how! I find there is a cotter pin on the opposite side, but I mangled it trying to get it out and it broke leaving half of it in the hole. Then I figure I'll take the rearset off. The sonofabitch muthafricken heat shield bolts are soft as butter and strip out on the first attempt to loosen them. I finally get both of them off, but I'll have to buy new ones. Now that it is loose, I find the entire fucking thing is attached somehow via a cable or hose.

I JUST WANT TO ADJUST MY GODDAMED BRAKE PEDAL.

Now I am down at least another week while I wait for the stupid bolts to put back into the heat shield. I am to the point I am about to bend the goddamned pedal. Do they make an adjustable pedal? I normally don't like doing mods that are not reversible, and bending the pedal would be one of them.

Sorry for my language, but I literally just came inside from dealing with that damn thing. My blood pressure is through the roof. I have no patience and no goddamned skill when it comes to mechanical objects and it frustrates me to no end.

[Veefer800Canuck]

The cotter pin is the key. You have to find something small to drive it out.

Sorry it broke on ya.

Once you get the cotter pin out, the pin with the gold square on it will slide right out, and the Omega shaped bracket can be threaded off the brake rod, allowing you to remove the nut above it.

Good luck. Breathe deep and try again tomorrow when you blood pressure is back on scale.

Remember, it's an inanimate object, and it is not trying to foil you for kicks. It's just following physics and natural law. You just need to overcome those obstacles and the part will obey you.

[Cogswell]

I feel the same way when it comes to my GF . . . This indeed is a PITA, but you do not need to remove anything to make this work. I put mine on my 6th gen, but it should work the same on your '99. Back the adjusting nut off, then begin turning the master cylinder actuation rod (the hex is right at the rubber boot) until it comes out of the turnbuckle - the black triangular shaped piece it threads though that has the "gold square" attached to it. As you do this the brake pedal is going to go higher and higher. Don't worry about that for now. Once the threaded rod is out of the turnbuckle, flip the turnbuckle down and you'll have the master cylinder push rod hanging down. For the next step you're going to need a Dremel or equivalent with a small cutoff wheel. I cut off only about 1 1/2 threads from the rod, as I wanted to leave enough for it to go back to stock if I wanted to. You can run the locknut down the shaft to clean up the end if it gets a little buggered from cutting with the Dremel. >BE CAREFUL< - the cutoff wheel is going to want to "walk off" the threaded rod and gouge anything near by, so work slowly and carefully holding to Dremel with both hands. Take your time. Once that's done, thread the rod back through the turnbuckle and adjust to taste. Leave the heat shield, rear set and everything else in place.

Now that you have that done, you still have the issue of the spring that actuates the brake light switch. Once your pedal is adjusted you'll find out that your brake light is on continuously. To fix that, I went to the hardware store and picked up the smallest split ring I could find - like the one your car keys are on. This one is tiny - maybe 1/4" + in diameter. Thread it through the hole in the brake pedal, hook the spring to it and you're good to go.

But first, I strongly recommend you go inside, have a - maybe two in this case to cool off. Take a stab at it tomorrow. Usually when I'm in this frame of mind is when I really get it fouled up and them I'm p.o.'ed at myself. You can do it - it just takes a little time.

[marriedman]

Beer in hand and watching Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. Eh, the kids are still awake after the fireworks. Kind of hard to be mad while watching Chitty. I went online to buy the bolts that got stripped. Ron Ayers shipping cost more than the damn bolts. Going back to the Chitty Chitty on the tube.

Thanks all for the more detailed instructions.

[timmythecop]

Beer in hand and watching Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.

did you ever realize that the toymaker is Benny Hill?

[mello dude]

I went online to buy the bolts that got stripped. Ron Ayers shipping cost more than the damn bolts.

The whole bike is put together with a ton of 6mm x 1.0 bolts. Get familiar with the Lowes hardware as they have a good selection of Grade 8.8 and 10.8 metric fasteners that will work out for non critical mount up stuff. Beats buying at the stealership or online all the time.

Of course, sometimes there is no choice but to use OEM.

[Higgin]

Beer in hand and watching Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. Eh, the kids are still awake after the fireworks. Kind of hard to be mad while watching Chitty. I went online to buy the bolts that got stripped. Ron Ayers shipping cost more than the damn bolts. Going back to the Chitty Chitty on the tube.

Thanks all for the more detailed instructions.

Wow! I have not seen that movies since I was probably 8 years old! I had totally forgot about it, but I now reember liking it a lot when I was young. Hope you get the brake pedal figured out; I'll probably be back to look through this thred in a month or two as this is the next mod my bike needs. Once I got my corbin and heli-bars on, the pegs just are too high up now on long rides. The corbin seems at least a couple inches lower than the stock seat.

[marriedman]

Beer in hand and watching Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.

did you ever realize that the toymaker is Benny Hill?

hehe, oh yeah. I love Benny Hill. I have several of his DVD's. Plus movie trivia is kinda my thing. I used to be a manager at Blockbuster.

Mello - I have gone to Lowes several times and they never seem to have the crap I want. Either that or I am just one blind SOB.

[marriedman]

LOCTITE! I shit you not, there was red Loctite on the cotter pin. I had better light today than last night and I could see inside the second set of holes that there a was dried red coat on it. Who in hell puts loctite on a cotter pin?! I'll tell you who does, the stupid fricken PO of this bike. I have hated this kid since the first time I took my bikes fairings off. I ended up using a very small punch and hammer to tap it out very very tediously. But I got it out.

After that, I got the bottom of the brake rode cut off and the pedal adjusted right where I want it. I actually did a nice job with the Dremel too. Surprised me!

Now that you have that done, you still have the issue of the spring that actuates the brake light switch. Once your pedal is adjusted you'll find out that your brake light is on continuously. To fix that, I went to the hardware store and picked up the smallest split ring I could find - like the one your car keys are on. This one is tiny - maybe 1/4" + in diameter. Thread it through the hole in the brake pedal, hook the spring to it and you're good to go.

What about the return spring? Does that need to be lengthened?

Also a new thing - my rear brake is now dragging. When spinning the wheel you can hear it "shish shish shish". Is there an adjustment for that as well?

[AndyB]

I used a round ring like a key ring but smaller to attach my brake light switch to the pedal after I lowered it.

With your rear brake dragging, make sure that there is still space between the bottom of the bolt you just shortened and the brake pedal. When I first lowered mine, I turned the bolt too far and it kept the pedal from fully returning.

[Cogswell]

LOCTITE! I shit you not, there was red Loctite on the cotter pin. I had better light today than last night and I could see inside the second set of holes that there a was dried red coat on it. Who in hell puts loctite on a cotter pin?! I'll tell you who does, the stupid fricken PO of this bike. I have hated this kid since the first time I took my bikes fairings off. I ended up using a very small punch and hammer to tap it out very very tediously. But I got it out.

After that, I got the bottom of the brake rode cut off and the pedal adjusted right where I want it. I actually did a nice job with the Dremel too. Surprised me!

Now that you have that done, you still have the issue of the spring that actuates the brake light switch. Once your pedal is adjusted you'll find out that your brake light is on continuously. To fix that, I went to the hardware store and picked up the smallest split ring I could find - like the one your car keys are on. This one is tiny - maybe 1/4" + in diameter. Thread it through the hole in the brake pedal, hook the spring to it and you're good to go.

What about the return spring? Does that need to be lengthened?

Also a new thing - my rear brake is now dragging. When spinning the wheel you can hear it "shish shish shish". Is there an adjustment for that as well?

Adjust the pedal up a little bit. If the brake stops dragging, then you didn't remove enough from the master cylinder rod (it's bottoming out) and you will need to trim it a bit more. If the brake still drags after backing off the adjustment then you have another problem. It it still does, the way you described it 'shish, shish, shish', makes it sound as though the rotor may be warped causing it to alternately contact the pads and then not.

As for the spring length, that is what the small ring is for - it gives it just enough extra length to allow the switch to be in the off position with the pedal adjusted further down. It keeps the spring from being over stretched and allows you to return the whole thing back to stock easily if you want to remove the blocks when you sell the bike.

Given your feelings about the P.O. , swapping this bike for another sounds like a distinct possibility . . .

[marriedman]

Adjust the pedal up a little bit. If the brake stops dragging, then you didn't remove enough from the master cylinder rod (it's bottoming out) and you will need to trim it a bit more. If the brake still drags after backing off the adjustment then you have another problem. It it still does, the way you described it 'shish, shish, shish', makes it sound as though the rotor may be warped causing it to alternately contact the pads and then not.

As for the spring length, that is what the small ring is for - it gives it just enough extra length to allow the switch to be in the off position with the pedal adjusted further down. It keeps the spring from being over stretched and allows you to return the whole thing back to stock easily if you want to remove the blocks when you sell the bike.

Given your feelings about the P.O. , swapping this bike for another sounds like a distinct possibility . . .

Are you kidding me?! After all the work I have put into this bike it has become to much a part of me - I feel the same way about this bike as I would an abused puppy!

PROGRESS! I got the smallest "O" keyring I could find. It's just a weeeeeee bit too big I think. I really have to press hard on the brake to get the light to activate. However, I don't think it will be too big of an issue since I always use both front and rear in tandem.

BEGIN EDIT - Just in case anyone comes across this thread during a search; This was the end of the lower block issue. Everything after this is related to an issue that just happened to manifest at the same time. - END EDIT

I wanted to test it out, so I took a squid ride around the block (literally a 4x4 house block). At first it was definitely rubbing. I made the circle back to my house and turned off the bike and put it up on the centerstand. I spun the rear wheel and I didn't hear the rubbing sound.

Just to be thorough, I spun the front wheel. WTF? It's rubbing now! I take the front pads out push the pistons out and spray brake cleaner and wipe down the outside of the pistons and inside of the calipers. Put it all back together and go for a spin. Get back and it's still doing it!

I am thinking it has something to do with me actuating the brakes so much while I was working on the lever, maybe? I'm going to search around a bit and see what I can find on the forums, but if it is something simple and anyone knows the answer off the top of your head, let me know!

Edited July 9, 2013 by marriedman

[Cogswell]

Are you kidding me?! After all the work I have put into this bike it has become to much a part of me - I feel the same way about this bike as I would an abused puppy!

PROGRESS! I got the smallest "O" keyring I could find. It's just a weeeeeee bit too big I think. I really have to press hard on the brake to get the light to activate. However, I don't think it will be too big of an issue since I always use both front and rear in tandem.

I wanted to test it out, so I took a squid ride around the block (literally a 4x4 house block). At first it was definitely rubbing. I made the circle back to my house and turned off the bike and put it up on the centerstand. I spun the rear wheel and I didn't hear the rubbing sound.

Just to be thorough, I spun the front wheel. WTF? It's rubbing now! I take the front pads out push the pistons out and spray brake cleaner and wipe down the outside of the pistons and inside of the calipers. Put it all back together and go for a spin. Get back and it's still doing it!

I am thinking it has something to do with me actuating the brakes so much while I was working on the lever, maybe? I'm going to search around a bit and see what I can find on the forums, but if it is something simple and anyone knows the answer off the top of your head, let me know!

Glad to hear you've got true commitment!

The switch should (unless the P.O. removed it) have an adjustment nut on it - you should be able to adjust it up or down to get it to actuate just as you would like.

As for the rear / front rotors, it's normal for them to have just a very slight amount of drag, but it shouldn't be enough to slow the wheel materially if you spin it. If you can spin the front wheel and have it make 4 or 5 revolutions and you don't feel any pulsation in the lever, you should be fine. The sure way to check the rotors is with a dial indicator, which most people don't have. My guess is they're probably fine.

[marriedman]

I think I have figured it out. After I had cleaned the inside of the calipers and the sides of the pistons, I put everything back together. Still had the rubbing sound. So now I took off the right side caliper and spun the wheel. The noise persists. Put the right caliper back on and remove the left caliper. Spins freely and quietly. So I take out the pads and check the pistons to make sure they are going all the way back as far as they should. They are. I check the slide pin to make sure it isn't catching on it, it could use a fresh coat of grease, but still not that bad. I look inside the caliper again really well... moving back and forth and up and down. Then I see it. The rotor is actually rubbing on the caliper. Its not the pads at all.

Quoting from another thread:

Make sure they mask off the rotor mounting surfaces, and also the back side of the rear rim where it contacts the hub.

If they don't, you're gonna be a sad camper trying to get the cured powder off!!!!

RULE: if the factory left it bare, it must remain bare. Make sure the monkey in the back of the shop knows, you can tell the guys at the front desk all you want, and it gets lost in translation when the spray monkey gets ahold of it.

Don't Ask Me How I Know!!!

As soon as I saw that shiny rubbed off area on the caliper, Veefers words popped into my head. I just naturally assumed this latest thing was related to the lowering blocks. I had my rims coated at the same time as the lowering blocks were installed and they were coated silver (which is what the naked metal looks like. I gave it a cursory glance when I got them, but maybe there is some powder coat still on there?

Tomorrow I will pull the front wheel off again and take the rotors off again and check and see if I need to dremel sand the rotor mounting spots.

[Veefer800Canuck]

On the back of your factory tool pouch, there is a 0.7mm feeler gauge.

This is for setting the minimum clearance from your brake caliper to the rotor.

Read the relevant pages in the FSM for the procedure, it's been a long time since my bike had standard forks and LBS, so I haven't done it in awhile.

[mello dude]

I think I have figured it out. After I had cleaned the inside of the calipers and the sides of the pistons, I put everything back together. Still had the rubbing sound. So now I took off the right side caliper and spun the wheel. The noise persists. Put the right caliper back on and remove the left caliper. Spins freely and quietly. So I take out the pads and check the pistons to make sure they are going all the way back as far as they should. They are. I check the slide pin to make sure it isn't catching on it, it could use a fresh coat of grease, but still not that bad. I look inside the caliper again really well... moving back and forth and up and down. Then I see it. The rotor is actually rubbing on the caliper. Its not the pads at all.

Quoting from another thread:

Make sure they mask off the rotor mounting surfaces, and also the back side of the rear rim where it contacts the hub.

If they don't, you're gonna be a sad camper trying to get the cured powder off!!!!

RULE: if the factory left it bare, it must remain bare. Make sure the monkey in the back of the shop knows, you can tell the guys at the front desk all you want, and it gets lost in translation when the spray monkey gets ahold of it.

Don't Ask Me How I Know!!!

Tomorrow I will pull the front wheel off again and take the rotors off again and check and see if I need to dremel sand the rotor mounting spots.

The rotor mount area on the wheel is a machined surface, and it's probly not a good idea to hit it with a Dremel.

-Veefer got me curious, and the service manual mentions the clearance between the caliper brackets and the rotor at 7mm min.

-Where on the caliper is the rotor hitting? Having a brain fart on picturing it. PIc?

- Do you have the left and right collars in the wheel mixed up? Remember I painted the right one red?

- The wheel mounting procedure is important to follow, tighten the left side pinch bolts first, there could be clearance problems if you do it wrong.

- Um, really dont like to debug by forum, I'm more a see it, touch it, smell it guy to figure stuff out.

[HispanicSlammer]

Did you remove the front wheel? If so maybe you got the axle spacers in wrong? they go into the slot between the front wheel bearings and space the wheel away from the forks. if they are backwards, missing or switched it could be the cause of your brake caliper rubbing.

[marriedman]

The rotor mount area on the wheel is a machined surface, and it's probly not a good idea to hit it with a Dremel.

-Veefer got me curious, and the service manual mentions the clearance between the caliper brackets and the rotor at 7mm min.

-Where on the caliper is the rotor hitting? Having a brain fart on picturing it. PIc?

- Do you have the left and right collars in the wheel mixed up? Remember I painted the right one red?

- The wheel mounting procedure is important to follow, tighten the left side pinch bolts first, there could be clearance problems if you do it wrong.

- Um, really dont like to debug by forum, I'm more a see it, touch it, smell it guy to figure stuff out.

A Dremel with a fine sandpaper would still be too agressive?

Tonight when I get home from work, I will take pictures.

I thought I had followed the instructions for putting the whole thing back together, but now I am doubting myself. I had forgot you painted the right one red, I need to do that.

I think I did the right side first now that you mention is.

Did you remove the front wheel? If so maybe you got the axle spacers in wrong? they go into the slot between the front wheel bearings and space the wheel away from the forks. if they are backwards, missing or switched it could be the cause of your brake caliper rubbing.

Yes, I removed the wheel to have it powder coated. I thought I had this part right, but the fact that you and mello both mention it now has me doubting myself. I am going to pull the wheel off and make doubley sure that I follow the proper steps of reassembly. I don't want to pull off the rotors if I don't have to!

[marriedman]

- The wheel mounting procedure is important to follow, tighten the left side pinch bolts first, there could be clearance problems if you do it wrong.

I decided to start almost over.

• I took the axle back out, wheel off, and pads out of the calipers.
• I bought a a dremel attachment kit ($11.50 on sale at Sears FYI)
• I bought high temp grease (Silaramic)
• Got out my buffing wheel.

Every bolt that I took out got cleaned with the brass bruss on the threads and buffing wheel on the head. The slide pin from the calipers also got cleaned and buffed. I took a long brush attachment and cleaned off as much brake powder from the inside of the calipers as I could reach. Per the instructions of the grease I put it on the back of the pads, the groove for the front of the pads, and of course the slide pin.

And still it rubbed.

Off comes the wheel. I grease the axle and double checked my spacers were on the correct side. (I will definitely want to paint that red like mello dude.) I Follow the reinstallation instructions to the letter. Tighten everything up the way it was supposed to be and sit in front of the wheel... I grab the tire and spin! It's still spinning... still spinning... still spinning! And no shish shish shish!

Mello nailed it. I believe that I tightened the pinch bolts at the same time and didn't seat the pads until the very last step. Oh, and the tire was on the ground... just an all around poor job the first time. So I wheel out my lady and get my gear on for the first ride since June 15th. (long story). Feels so good!

wait a minute... whats that sensation? Damn thing wobbles on deceleration between 55-45 mph! I think the front tire is not balanced correctly. Shit. I have to take the wheel off again! Screw it, I am buying Dynabeads and calling it done!

Thanks everyone for all the great help. My wife came out to help for a moment and she pointed out something to me. A year ago - seriously, only 1 year ago - I wouldn't even change the oil in my car. I have had the front end apart on this thing, the back end, read books and manuals, and spent a small fortune on tools and farkles. Ain't love strange?

[mello dude]

- The wheel mounting procedure is important to follow, tighten the left side pinch bolts first, there could be clearance problems if you do it wrong.

I decided to start almost over.

• I took the axle back out, wheel off, and pads out of the calipers.
• I bought a a dremel attachment kit ($11.50 on sale at Sears FYI)
• I bought high temp grease (Silaramic)
• Got out my buffing wheel.

Every bolt that I took out got cleaned with the brass bruss on the threads and buffing wheel on the head. The slide pin from the calipers also got cleaned and buffed. I took a long brush attachment and cleaned off as much brake powder from the inside of the calipers as I could reach. Per the instructions of the grease I put it on the back of the pads, the groove for the front of the pads, and of course the slide pin.

And still it rubbed.

Off comes the wheel. I grease the axle and double checked my spacers were on the correct side. (I will definitely want to paint that red like mello dude.) I Follow the reinstallation instructions to the letter. Tighten everything up the way it was supposed to be and sit in front of the wheel... I grab the tire and spin! It's still spinning... still spinning... still spinning! And no shish shish shish!

Mello nailed it. I believe that I tightened the pinch bolts at the same time and didn't seat the pads until the very last step. Oh, and the tire was on the ground... just an all around poor job the first time. So I wheel out my lady and get my gear on for the first ride since June 15th. (long story). Feels so good!

wait a minute... whats that sensation? Damn thing wobbles on deceleration between 55-45 mph! I think the front tire is not balanced correctly. Shit. I have to take the wheel off again! Screw it, I am buying Dynabeads and calling it done!

Thanks everyone for all the great help. My wife came out to help for a moment and she pointed out something to me. A year ago - seriously, only 1 year ago - I wouldn't even change the oil in my car. I have had the front end apart on this thing, the back end, read books and manuals, and spent a small fortune on tools and farkles. Ain't love strange?

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/75265-dyna-beads-wtf/

- Tire rotating forward in the correct direction?

sry

[marriedman]

Yeah, I have read hundreds of forum posts and reviews about them. I am going to try them and if they work; great. If not, I am only out my time.

Yeah, I am obsessive about the tire/rim rotational direction.

Thanks again mello. For not liking debugging via forum, you did a pretty good job.

[marriedman]

Given your feelings about the P.O. , swapping this bike for another sounds like a distinct possibility . . .

Are you kidding me?! After all the work I have put into this bike it has become to much a part of me - I feel the same way about this bike as I would an abused puppy!

Glad to hear you've got true commitment!

I had lunch with my wife and some of her coworkers today. She had me regale them with the saga of me working on the bike. One of the ladies said almost the exact same thing that you just did. without thinking, I said that the only bike I would even consider trading mine for would be an 07 Anniversary Edition. I kind paused and thought about it, but yeah. That would be the only bike I would swap out for.

I don't know if that calls my commitment into question, but I can say that it has nothing to do with the condition of my current ride. Shes pretty solid actually. Just the regular maintenance was not done. She should be all caught up now though. The 2007 RWB though is just so damned nice and I have been a sucker for the RWB scheme ever since I first saw the mid 80's Nighthawk in that scheme!

I think the reason I did not mention it before is because it is just outside the realm of possibility that someone with a 07 would want to swap with a 99, even if I only have 18K on my bike. So being realistic on the forum and pie-in-the-sky at lunch is two very different scenarios.