Another Oil Thread...ooooooh Noooooo

[soichiro]

BLS is right on the money about clutch plate glaze.

As he stated riders with many years under their belt de-glazed at least the friction plates, as part of normal maintenance and kept rolling.

I raced mx for 2 decades and this was a very common practice. As long as the thickness is in spec all will be good.

BLS, you are also right about moly in some of hondas own oil. Honda oil is offered with or without moly. I should of known that.

I actually use honda gn-4 dino oil and honda auto filter. I'm a honda auto tech so I get the filters for $5 or so. I have used the honda auto filter since my 2nd oil change and now have 70k plus miles. It must be fine, lol.

I have taken a honda bike filter and a honda hybrid filter apart and ck,ed specs. They are identical in nearly everyway except color.

I can"t remeMber why honda oil is offered with or without moly.

ARE WE REALLY STILL TALKING ABOUT OIL!!!!!!!!!! HOW DID I GET SUCKED IN AGAIN, LOL, LITERALLY!

[Cogswell]

Oil threads are the equivalent of a car accident in the opposite lanes of the freeway. Everyone slows down to look, even though they know they shouldn't. We just can't help ourselves.

[TimC]

I think when people are as passionate about their motorcycles as we are, that we're always searching for the best (and most cost effective) way to treat our bikes right. Especially since many of us put thousands of miles on them per year and keep them several years. It would be different if we were punks who expected to trash our Gixxers within a couple seasons.

We care too much about our bikes to abuse them or even to let them suffer from poor maintenance, so we're continually interested in getting the best information possible to make them run well and last forever.

[BusyLittleShop]

Differnet clutches on different bikes , clutch strength varies(even brand new). Depending on how slick the oil is, can cause issues, with particular model.

One time on my drz I was running redline oil, I thought i was imagining things on straight Flat cruising at 60 mph, felt like clutch would slightly release and recatch at times. It was so mild I thought it was in me head(2 weeks of this). I finally took it to a big uphill mountain and burned through the gears, hit top gear and slip slip, yeah its the clutch.

Dumped the redline, installed a known good clutch oil(rotella) and went back and restested , no more issue. Should I spend $200 on a Reinforced beefed up clutch to run redline, or just use a Known good clutch oil.

I know the easy answer.

Both Red Line and Rotella have only 10% of the suspect additives...

your DRZ clutch was not engineered to operate within a slim 10% margin

of slipping... so understanding how robust Suzuki designed the clutch

a owner should always take the easy route and service the clutch

plates before dumping perfectly good oil...

[Switchblade]

What about Slick 50.

Sorry had to go there.

[rangemaster]

Not to go to far off topic but I tried Larry's (BLS) advice to try the M1 0W-30 in my 4th gen for the last two winters here and was very pleased with its performance. I'm about ready to do the summer oil change and was going to use the old reliable Rotella 10-40 syn but based on Larry's endorsement of the M1 0W-40 will probably try that. Air temps on the way to work are 65-70F and 95-100+F on the way home. Maybe Larry will respond if that is a good match or not.

[2thdr]

Not to go to far off topic but I tried Larry's (BLS) advice to try the M1 0W-30 in my 4th gen for the last two winters here and was very pleased with its performance. I'm about ready to do the summer oil change and was going to use the old reliable Rotella 10-40 syn but based on Larry's endorsement of the M1 0W-40 will probably try that. Air temps on the way to work are 65-70F and 95-100+F on the way home. Maybe Larry will respond if that is a good match or not.

Have you shopped for the Mobil 1 0W-40 at Walmart or other yet? Is it readily available and how much are they getting for it?

[YoshiHNS]

I don't get it. Every time I go change the oil it's dirty. I'm pretty sure I put clean oil in there. I think someone keeps putting junk in my oil to make it dirty and make my bike not run as well. It's very annoying having to keep putting clean oil in there to make everything feel right.

[rangemaster]

I don't get it. Every time I go change the oil it's dirty. I'm pretty sure I put clean oil in there. I think someone keeps putting junk in my oil to make it dirty and make my bike not run as well. It's very annoying having to keep putting clean oil in there to make everything feel right.

LOL - That's one reason I'm happy with the 0w-30 M1, with about 3500 miles on it of winter commuting it still looks almost new.

[soichiro]

I don't get it. Every time I go change the oil it's dirty. I'm pretty sure I put clean oil in there. I think someone keeps putting junk in my oil to make it dirty and make my bike not run as well. It's very annoying having to keep putting clean oil in there to make everything feel right.

LOL, good one.

I have customers ask all the time, "WHAT DID MY OIL LOOK LIKE"?

Same answer everytime, BLACK!!!!!

Of course i'm talking honda autos. Bike oil at 3k miles looks nothing like car oil at 3k miles. Both are still very much darker than when it was poured out of the bottle.

[BusyLittleShop]

Oil threads are the equivalent of a car accident in the opposite lanes of the freeway. Everyone slows down to look, even though they know they shouldn't. We just can't help ourselves.

Oil threads can get so bad that the NSA has stopped listening to them...

[BusyLittleShop]

Not to go to far off topic but I tried Larry's (BLS) advice to try the M1 0W-30 in my 4th gen for the last two winters here and was very pleased with its performance. I'm about ready to do the summer oil change and was going to use the old reliable Rotella 10-40 syn but based on Larry's endorsement of the M1 0W-40 will probably try that. Air temps on the way to work are 65-70F and 95-100+F on the way home. Maybe Larry will respond if that is a good match or not.

Good news thanks for posting... I'm going to start my own Oil Thread to funnel everyone's mileage and oil choice experience...

Zero weight oil is like a new and improved tire... it keeps our bikes

current which is good for us... so either 0 30 or 0 40 will be a good

match... the 30 will flow faster through your engine than the 40 and

anytime you flow more oil past the bearings means greater metal to

metal separation and the quicker the heat draw... it works this way

because pressure and flow are inverse proportional... lubrication is a

property of the fluid not force...

Also remember the W in say 10w-40 is not weight. The W means winter.

Many think that the “W” in 10W-40 means “winter”but its not true...

Quote SAE J300 p.2:

"Two series of viscosity grades are defined in Table (1): (a) those

containing the letter W and (b) those without. Single viscosity grade

oils with the letter W are defined by maximum low temperature cranking

and pumping viscosities and a minimum kinematic viscosity at 100C.

Single grade oils without the letter W are based on a set of minimum

and maximum kinematic viscosities at 100C and a minimum high shear

rate viscosity at 150C. The shear rate will depend on the test method.

Multigrade grade oils are defined by both of these criteria."

So the W is just a designation of one type of testing vs another and if you personally

asked them if it stands for "winter" and they flatly said "no".

[luvtoleanit]

BSL, thoughts?

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/motor-oil/4-stroke/formula-4-stroke-powersports-0w-40/?page=%2fstorefront%2faff.aspx

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/motor-oil/gasoline/sae-0w-30-signature-series-100-percent-synthetic-motor-oil/

[TimC]

I don't get it. Every time I go change the oil it's dirty. I'm pretty sure I put clean oil in there. I think someone keeps putting junk in my oil to make it dirty and make my bike not run as well. It's very annoying having to keep putting clean oil in there to make everything feel right.

LOL, good one.

I have customers ask all the time, "WHAT DID MY OIL LOOK LIKE"?

Same answer everytime, BLACK!!!!!

Of course i'm talking honda autos. Bike oil at 3k miles looks nothing like car oil at 3k miles. Both are still very much darker than when it was poured out of the bottle.

I've considered buying some cheap standard grade oil and a cheap filter for an oil change, running it for a couple hours or a day, then replacing it with the normal good stuff as I normally do. The goal would be to see if running a quick oil change would clean up the my bike's innards for awhile, leaving the good stuff to do its job in more pristine conditions - and maybe last longer, too, since (theoretically anyway) the engine would be cleaner after an oil flush.

Has anyone ever done this, and would it even work the way I'm thinking? Or maybe I'd need to flush it 2x-3x to really clean up the insides. I think it sounds kind of crazy, but I've thought of trying it on more than one occasion.

The irony of motorcycle oil changes is that, while it can be pain and rather expensive (depending on what oil and filter you buy), I would love to have to do them more often, as it would mean I'm riding a lot! A few years ago when I was averaging 11k miles per year, I was doing 3-4 oil changes per year, now it's more like 2 changes per year. I hoping to need to do at least 3 this year.

[Rice]

I must be on the lunatic fringe of this debate.

I put Mobil 1 full syn once every 7K miles, which works out to once every 2 years the way I ride.

No issues to report to date.

Of course, a more... 'scientific' approach to oil will probably help the engine last practically for ever.Do I need it to last for ever? Probably not.

Just look at BR. HE hasn't adjusted valves in 100K miles and the bike is still going strong

[spud786]

Id really have that 0w30 or 0w40 tested, I bet its a 20 weight inside of 1000 miles. Personally 30 weights Ive seen pronounced cam lobe wear on mc engines(and this is with 5w40 Pao Full synthetic(just too light weight for pressure areas. So thats a definite no way for me.

Many run the 5w40 rotella, (thats okay its actually heavier), however my testing showed rotella 5w40 had dropped a full grade by 1200 miles in my vfr.

[rangemaster]

Not to go to far off topic but I tried Larry's (BLS) advice to try the M1 0W-30 in my 4th gen for the last two winters here and was very pleased with its performance. I'm about ready to do the summer oil change and was going to use the old reliable Rotella 10-40 syn but based on Larry's endorsement of the M1 0W-40 will probably try that. Air temps on the way to work are 65-70F and 95-100+F on the way home. Maybe Larry will respond if that is a good match or not.

Have you shopped for the Mobil 1 0W-40 at Walmart or other yet? Is it readily available and how much are they getting for it?

$22.47 for the 5 qt. jug. They had a few on the shelf. Must be popular, they were out at the first one I tried.

[BusyLittleShop]

BSL, thoughts?

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/motor-oil/4-stroke/formula-4-stroke-powersports-0w-40/?page=%2fstorefront%2faff.aspx

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/motor-oil/gasoline/sae-0w-30-signature-series-100-percent-synthetic-motor-oil/

Sorry to take so long but I've been busy prepping Mr.RC45 for Laguna Seca...

My thoughts are with the numbers... at start up you want lowest

viscosity possible for quick flow to the critical bearing thats where

the Viscosity of 58.3 is more desirable than 83.7... At operating

temps you want a viscosity of 10 because for every 1,000 rpms the

engine pumps 10psi... 2000 rpm 20psi and so on thats where the 10.4 is

more desirable than 14.7... Total base numbers are the amount of

additives... 12.6 is a more robust additive package than 10.5... and

finally a 30 will gain you more HP at the rear wheel than a 40 due to

less oil drag however either oil will meet your high mileage

expectations... its your choice...

Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C or 104ºF cSt (83.7 4-STROKE 0W-40) (58.3 Synthetic 0W-30)

Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, 212ºF cSt (14.7 4-STROKE 0W-40)(10.4 Synthetic 0W-30)

Total Base Number (10.5 4-STROKE 0W-40) (12.6 Synthetic 0W-30)

[spud786]

I dont know, Ive done full throttle runs NOT (vfr) , and the Heavy weight oils produce more top speed than the light weight ones. Only by 3 mph or so(consistantly). Testing was done with amsoil 20w50 and Motul 15w50, both consistantly out performed top speed runs verses 5w40 pure pao synthetic. Not mobil one fake synthetic.

Ive no data to support lighter weight oils produce more power once at full temps, my results say otherwise, oil has thinned out enough for friction to enter the picture.

I believe any benefit of light weight oil, is in the very early stages of start up in very cold weather, otherwise there is no real benefit.

[luvtoleanit]

That is what I thought as well but I'm trying to learn more. I've never run a 0w, always 10w or 15w for the most part and some 5W Rotella Synth as its hard to argue with $21 a gallon at Chinamart when I don't want to wait on Amsoil to ship. I'm running a 0w in the cage but the manual specifies for it and its a diesel.

[Switchblade]

I dont know, Ive done full throttle runs NOT (vfr) , and the Heavy weight oils produce more top speed than the light weight ones. Only by 3 mph or so(consistantly). Testing was done with amsoil 20w50 and Motul 15w50, both consistantly out performed top speed runs verses 5w40 pure pao synthetic. Not mobil one fake synthetic.

Ive no data to support lighter weight oils produce more power once at full temps, my results say otherwise, oil has thinned out enough for friction to enter the picture.

I believe any benefit of light weight oil, is in the very early stages of start up in very cold weather, otherwise there is no real benefit.

+1 I dont see it either ...

[jeffyjeff]

The quality of lubricants these days is so good that it probably doesn't matter what you use. I have a friend who rides a Kawisaki ZRX1200R. He commutes 100 miles round trip each day, and his bike has over 160,000 miles on it. When I asked him what oil he uses, he said, "the cheap stuff, whatever is on sale, 10W-40" Even Stan Wilson, the Brit courier who racked up over 400,000 miles on his third gen engine (twice) used off the shelf car engine oil.

In my three years membership on this forum, I haven't once read of a VFR being worn out, bellowing blue smoke, or consuming oil between changes. Riders who love their bikes enough to read up and learn about them do not abuse them. Regular maintenance is far more effective than which oil we choose. I am happy to see that there are a lot of riders passionate about that!

[Rice]

The quality of lubricants these days is so good that it probably doesn't matter what you use. I have a friend who rides a Kawisaki ZRX1200R. He commutes 100 miles round trip each day, and his bike has over 160,000 miles on it. When I asked him what oil he uses, he said, "the cheap stuff, whatever is on sale, 10W-40" Even Stan Wilson, the Brit courier who racked up over 400,000 miles on his third gen engine (twice) used off the shelf car engine oil.

In my three years membership on this forum, I haven't once read of a VFR being worn out, bellowing blue smoke, or consuming oil between changes. Riders who love their bikes enough to read up and learn about them do not abuse them. Regular maintenance is far more effective than which oil we choose. I am happy to see that there are a lot of riders passionate about that!

^^^Exactly^^^

[Baileyrock]

I dont know, Ive done full throttle runs NOT (vfr) , and the Heavy weight oils produce more top speed than the light weight ones. Only by 3 mph or so(consistantly). Testing was done with amsoil 20w50 and Motul 15w50, both consistantly out performed top speed runs verses 5w40 pure pao synthetic. Not mobil one fake synthetic.

Ive no data to support lighter weight oils produce more power once at full temps, my results say otherwise, oil has thinned out enough for friction to enter the picture.

I believe any benefit of light weight oil, is in the very early stages of start up in very cold weather, otherwise there is no real benefit.

Actually you would be hard pressed to find any data supporting your position anywhere.

In fact ask any Professional Race team of any type and you find most if not all of them all using Zero weight oils in every part of their race vehicle whether a bike, boat, or Formula 1 team.

Why, less internal friction Always equals more Power!!!

I don't really think they run it for Cold Start concerns.

BTW heavier weight oil of the same brand and type will never produce more power or speed over a light weight oil of the same type, that would be against physics!

[BusyLittleShop]

Actually you would be hard pressed to find any data supporting your position anywhere.

In fact ask any Professional Race team of any type and you find most if not all of them all using Zero weight oils in every part of their race vehicle whether a bike, boat, or Formula 1 team.

Why, less internal friction Always equals more Power!!!

I don't really think they run it for Cold Start concerns.

BTW heavier weight oil of the same brand and type will never produce more power or speed over a light weight oil of the same type, that would be against physics!

True... the law of physics says less internal friction equals more RWHP and that fact is verifiable on

a dyno like Sport RIder learned in their experiment... 30wt is 2.7 to 3.3 HP in a bottle versus 40wt...

Quote Sport RIder...

Dyno Test

Some oil manufacturers and their representatives claim that using

their product will result in more horsepower. These are special

ultra-lightweight-viscosity racing synthetic oils that are said to

reduce the parasitic drag that oil has on an engine's internal

reciprocating components. We decided to put these claims to the

test-an actual dynamometer test. Two of the full synthetic oils in

this test make these horsepower claims on their labels: Maxima Maxum

Ultra (in 0W-30 and 5W-30) and Motul Factory Line 300V (in 5W-30). We

took two open-class sportbikes-a Suzuki GSX-R1000 and a Yamaha

YZF-R1-and ran them with common off-the-shelf Valvoline 10W-40

automobile mineral oil to set a baseline dyno run. That oil was

drained and replaced with the 0W-30 Maxum Ultra in the Suzuki, and the

5W-30 Motul 300V in the Yamaha. After about 15 miles of running to get

the oil fully circulated through the engine, the bikes were then

dynoed again.

Lo and behold, both the Suzuki and Yamaha posted horsepower gains.

While not an earth-shattering boost in power, the gains were far

beyond common run variations, and weren't restricted to the very top

end. The GSX-R1000 posted an increase of 3.3 horsepower on top, with

some noticeable midrange gains as well; even more interesting was that

the power steadily increased for several dyno runs (as the coolant

temp increased). The Yamaha responded nearly as well, with a 2.7

horsepower boost on top. It should also be noted that while riding

both bikes, there was a noticeable ease in shifting with the synthetic

oils compared to the automobile mineral oil. Pretty impressive for

just changing oil, in our opinion.