Member Contributer 2thdr Posted June 11, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 11, 2013 Castrol 03166 Actevo Xtra 10W-40 4-Stroke Motorcycle Oil Anyone ever use this stuff? Found on Amazon Prime for $58 for 3 gallons (free shipping, no tax in OK) http://www.amazon.com/Castrol-03166-Actevo-4-Stroke-Motorcycle/dp/B008MISCLQ/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1370963680&sr=8-6&keywords=motorcycle+oil Or this stuff? $10 bucks a quart, same as Mobil 1 4T http://www.amazon.com/TEXAS-TEA-Motorcycle-Stroke-10W-40/dp/B004NPO8LU/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&qid=1370964367&sr=8-17&keywords=motorcycle+oil EDIT: Above Castrol is semi-synthetic. Full synthetic Castrol is this: http://www.amazon.com/Castrol-06078-10W-40-4-Stroke-Motorcycle/dp/B008MISDH4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1370964645&sr=8-2&keywords=motorcycle+oil Much better price than Mobil 1 4T... $7.80 / quart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer luvtoleanit Posted June 11, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 11, 2013 The Castrol says "part synthetic". I wouldn't as you can get full synth Rotella for close to the same price. Never heard of the 2nd one you listed. Honestly, if you have the dough, Amsoil. If you want the cheaper option, Rotella. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2thdr Posted June 11, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 11, 2013 Used Rotella T6 full syn for quite a while and don't have any concerns with it. Was just wanting to try something different. The Castrol full syn I added to my post is only $7.80 / qt. Rotella T6 would be about $5 / qt I think at Walmart. And what is the difference between JASO MA, and MA-2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Africord Posted June 11, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 11, 2013 And what is the difference between JASO MA, and MA-2? Here's one answer... http://www.whitedogbikes.com/whitedogblog/choosing-the-right-motorbike-oil-what-does-jaso-and-jaso-ma2-mean/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2thdr Posted June 11, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 11, 2013 Good info...looks like the MA-2 is the updated version of MA put out in 2006. Interesting thing is that there is no real testing going on to claim these certifications. This website claims the only thing you can do is buy the very expensive oil trusting them more than the manufacturers of the cheap stuff. In essence they say that no way, no how is $20 / 4 litres of Rotella T6 a truly JASO MA-2 oil. Confusing to say the least... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer RollinAgain Posted June 11, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 11, 2013 I've been using the Castrol Semi-Sythetic for the past 2 years in both my bikes and have no complaints. Seems to be slightly better than Rotella in my opinion. Any major brand oil (syntheic or conventional) will be ok assuming you change it frequently enough. I personally think that the marginal benefit of full synthetic does not justify the huge increase in cost. I tend to chain oil every 4000 miles or so and change the filter on every other oil change. Rollin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rice Posted June 11, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 11, 2013 Used Rotella T6 full syn for quite a while and don't have any concerns with it. Was just wanting to try something different. ^^THIS^^ If it is fine, then the only difference you will notice by changing to something else is probably not going to be an improvement. If it wasn't oil, I'd say go exploring, but I doubt that there's anything new to be discovered here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 And what is the whitedogbikes blog's authority to know that Rotella is not as good as the expensive stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gll429 Posted June 11, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 11, 2013 baby oil!! fresh squeezed! make a sandwich with the rest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2thdr Posted June 11, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 11, 2013 And what is the whitedogbikes blog's authority to know that Rotella is not as good as the expensive stuff? That's a good question. It's unfortunate that there is not an unbiased clearing house for information about real facts of engine wear, etc. comparing all the different moto oils out there. I would think that Moto GP race teams and SBK race teams would be the most "in the know" groups out there. I took some track instruction from a small time, but successful road racer named Mike Sullivan. He swore by Silkolene oil...of course they were a sponsor of his. What is it about Silkolene Pro 4 synthetic oil that makes it worth $17 a litre? I don't know, but quite a few race teams think it is. Now, is it worth $17 a litre to me when I run my bike at 8-10k rpm for part of the day when I ride the twisty AR backroads? Probably not...I'm not running at 14-20k rpm constantly like the pros do. Would I still like that kind of protection for my engine so it will hopefully run thousands and thousands of miles? Sure! Just depends if I want to pay for it I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer luvtoleanit Posted June 11, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 11, 2013 Good info...looks like the MA-2 is the updated version of MA put out in 2006. Interesting thing is that there is no real testing going on to claim these certifications. This website claims the only thing you can do is buy the very expensive oil trusting them more than the manufacturers of the cheap stuff. In essence they say that no way, no how is $20 / 4 litres of Rotella T6 a truly JASO MA-2 oil. Confusing to say the least... If it's a 40 weight, as in 10w or 15w versions, I wouldn't be concerned with the JASO rating at all. The only thing I concern myself with is if it's energy conserving (a no no in wet clutches as I'm sure you know very well). As far as trust......I've always sent in lab samples to Blackstone Labs to verify any of the claims. I've done this on every bike for the past decade as well as my cages over the years. I've tested dino, semi-synth, and full synths. Mobil 1, Rotella T, Amsoil, Redline, Motul, Royal Purple, Castrol, Repsol.....to make a long story short, Amsoil has held up the best, giving the engines the best protection, and for the longest intervals, and I'm so convinced of that after testing it so many times that I run it in everything that I pay to do oil changes in, bikes, scooter, even my lawn equipment. I'm also quite fond of Rotella Synth as it's easy to locate (chinamart stocks it) although it doesn't have as long of intervals as Amsoil. Try what you like, but I wouldn't trust anyone unless they have lab sheets from a company that analyzes oil. This includes myself and my info above as the only way you'll believe it is to do it yourself. I wish I could give you my lab sheets for my bikes over the last 10 years but I always print them off, sharpie out my personal data and give it along with my maintenance records to the buyer when I sell my bikes/cages. Both my current bikes are relatively new so I won't start sending in samples for a few k yet. Ideally, to save money and time, the lab samples will give you an ideal interval to change and will tell you the quality of the oil you are using. I got to the point with my previous bikes that I only needed to change the oil once a year with a filter swap in between (with some top off oil to replace what I lost with the filter change). Amsoil was good up to 8-10k miles depending on what kind of riding I was doing. If I did a track day I'd change it sooner. Cost/performance, you are going to really a have a hard time beating Rotella T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2thdr Posted June 11, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 11, 2013 Thanks for sharing that information Leanit...as you have found out, experience wins out over all the press and talk anyone can muster (including unsubstantiated opinions!). Lab testing is the only way to be sure if your oil has maintained grade after X number of miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer carlgustav Posted June 11, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 11, 2013 I too appreciate the lab info shared. I am curious tho, as to how well Mobil 1 did in your experience 'leanit'? Reason being that's what I run in my VFR and XR. My RSV presently has Amsoil in her on the advice of a friend, but I felt no real 'seat of the pants' improvement over the M1 that I had in her previously, and I believe that Amsoil is more $$ than Mobil 1? Thx, ACE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted June 11, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 11, 2013 The only thing I concern myself with is if it's energy conserving (a no no in wet clutches as I'm sure you know very well). Negative... Technically speaking Energy Conserving oil can not defeat a wet clutch in good working order... whats confusing the issue is the fact that all motorcycle wet clutches will reach a point in their life and start to slip... no one complains about clutch slip when new... but on about the 27K range is when enough contaminants build up to point where the clutch begins to loose its grip during WFO (Wide Fooking Open)throttle only... in error you can blame the oil but its really the clutch... I've been using mostly 30wt oils certified Energy Conserving since 98 in Mr.RC45 with no clutch slipping due to oil being certified 10% slipperier than non EC oil... and it's a bike with a tall first gear good for 90mph that's known to incinerate clutch plates... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soichiro Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Nearly all oil is excellent in todays world. Service classification is the main thing. API, american petrolum institute service grade. AS bls said energy conserving oil isnt what makes the clutch slip. IT IS FRICTION MODIFIERS THAT CAN MAKE CLUTCH SLIPPAGE. It certainly wont help if your clutch has a good number of miles. Also remember the W in say 10w-40 is not weight. The W means winter. Semi synthetic doesnt mean half and half. It can be 99% dino and 1% synthetic, and be called semi syn. IMHO if someone uses a certain oil and there engine doesnt blow up they consider it good. I am guilty too. If it works it is human nature to continue using it. As stated above the only real ananlysis is to send the oil to a lab, and tear the engine down to measure wear. I tell my customers to use a good brand and stick with it, it's that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted June 11, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 11, 2013 Castrol 03166 Actevo Xtra 10W-40 4-Stroke Motorcycle Oil Anyone ever use this stuff? Found on Amazon Prime for $58 for 3 gallons (free shipping, no tax in OK) Knowing what your buying thats in the oil versus the cost is the only way to make a good judgement... Castrol Actevo 10W40 MC specific versus 100% synthetic Mobil 1 0 40 car oil MOLY:...........................................0....................................................72 PHOSPHOROUS:......................768..................................................808 ZINC:....................................... 966..................................................976 Viscosity @ 212F................. 15.24..................................................14.3 Cost................................$58 3 Gal...................$22 5 quart jug Walmart http://www.walmart.com/search/search-ng.do?ic=16_0&Find=Find&search_query=mobil+1&Find=Find&search_constraint=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer luvtoleanit Posted June 11, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 11, 2013 Nearly all oil is excellent in todays world. Service classification is the main thing. API, american petrolum institute service grade. AS bls said energy conserving oil isnt what makes the clutch slip. IT IS FRICTION MODIFIERS THAT CAN MAKE CLUTCH SLIPPAGE. It certainly wont help if your clutch has a good number of miles. Also remember the W in say 10w-40 is not weight. The W means winter. Semi synthetic doesnt mean half and half. It can be 99% dino and 1% synthetic, and be called semi syn. IMHO if someone uses a certain oil and there engine doesnt blow up they consider it good. I am guilty too. If it works it is human nature to continue using it. As stated above the only real ananlysis is to send the oil to a lab, and tear the engine down to measure wear. I tell my customers to use a good brand and stick with it, it's that simple. Those friction modifiers are ever present in energy conserving oil which is why I skip it altogether. But your point, was what, I was trying to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2thdr Posted June 12, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 12, 2013 Castrol 03166 Actevo Xtra 10W-40 4-Stroke Motorcycle Oil Anyone ever use this stuff? Found on Amazon Prime for $58 for 3 gallons (free shipping, no tax in OK) Knowing what your buying thats in the oil versus the cost is the only way to make a good judgement... Castrol Actevo 10W40 MC specific versus 100% synthetic Mobil 1 0 40 car oil MOLY:...........................................0....................................................72 PHOSPHOROUS:......................768..................................................808 ZINC:....................................... 966..................................................976 Viscosity @ 212F................. 15.24..................................................14.3 Cost................................$58 3 Gal...................$22 5 quart jug Walmart http://www.walmart.com/search/search-ng.do?ic=16_0&Find=Find&search_query=mobil+1&Find=Find&search_constraint=0 So, from this info it looks like it is desirable to have the Moly-free Castrol, but the Mobil 1 is less viscous at operating temp. Larry I thought you were very concerned with viscosity at starting temps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soichiro Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 IIRC moly (molybdenum) is no good for wet clutches. BLS, correct me if thats wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted June 12, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 12, 2013 So, from this info it looks like it is desirable to have the Moly-free Castrol, but the Mobil 1 is less viscous at operating temp. Larry I thought you were very concerned with viscosity at starting temps? Moly is an anti wear additive and in the interest of longevity Moly is more desirable than Moly free... I'm very concerned with viscosity at start temps... thats why I using 0-30 Mobil 1 in Mr.RC45 and thats why I recommend Mobil 0-40 for you because between 10-40 5-40 and 0-40 the 0-40 will reach your bearings first during critical start up where most of the engine wear occurs... Oil Type......Viscosity @ 75° F start up... Viscosity @ 212° F operating temps Straight 30.......250.................10 10W-30............100.................10 0W-30..............56.................10 Straight 10........30..................6 IIRC moly (molybdenum) is no good for wet clutches. BLS, correct me if thats wrong. Moly (molybdenum) is an anti wear additive and will not defeat a wet clutch in good working order the proof of that is in Honda HP4 oil with 80 PPM Moly... if Moly were no good then Honda's engineers would have called for its removal from the companies own line of oil... I don't know who or were the Moly myth started... Moly content of some of the major oils... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 under 200 ppm of moly, is a non event with any oil, but there are mc oils like motul and Redline which have 500 ppm moly or more Claiming Jaso MA, and this is were border line clutch issues can arise. I also dont know if there are variances in Moly application, to where it wont readily cause issue in the clutch with MC oils, verses a Moly in a car oil. I have had mild slippage deveope on another bike with redline car oil. Ive never tried their MC oil. But 100ppm or 200 ppm of moly is REALLY nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted June 12, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 12, 2013 Those friction modifiers are ever present in energy conserving oil which is why I skip it altogether. But your point, was what, I was trying to say. Friction Modifiers are Antiwear: These are perhaps the most- discussed additives, which serve to protect the engine from metal-to-metal wear. Common antiwear additives are phosphorous and zinc. Other antiwear additives include friction modifiers like molybdenum disulphide (or moly). are we going to say yes Phosphorous and Zinc and no to Moly??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted June 12, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 12, 2013 under 200 ppm of moly, is a non event with any oil, but there are mc oils like motul and Redline which have 500 ppm moly or more Claiming Jaso MA, and this is were border line clutch issues can arise. I also dont know if there are variances in Moly application, to where it wont readily cause issue in the clutch with MC oils, verses a Moly in a car oil. I have had mild slippage deveope on another bike with redline car oil. Ive never tried their MC oil. But 100ppm or 200 ppm of moly is REALLY nothing. No one complains about Clutch slip when the bike is new... its around the 27K mark that I start hearing complaints from customers... I advise them to keep the oil and service the clutch... Clutch plates don't wear out rather they start to slip because they get glazed over and contaminated... It's a fact that all motorcycle wet clutches will reach a point in their life and begin slipping... the first signs happen during WFO throttle (Wide Fooking Open)... Don't be surprised if you tear a part the clutch pack and note that the plate thickness is well within specifications listed in the shop manual... What you will notice is the glazed appearance on the surface on the friction plates... You can ante up $240.00 in new clutch parts or you have the option of investing in some sweat equity... deglazing clutch plates ain't nothing new... no sir... back in the 70s it use to be part of every savvy rider's maintenance plan... and for some reason that all change during the 90s... why fix what you can buy new is the what you hear now a days... but if your interested in making your clutch bite good as new then roll up your sleeves and read on... if not get back on the couch... Inspect the friction plates for glazing... make sure you have plenty of material to work with... the VFR manual states clutch thickness in thousands of an inch... I don't a manual handy or I'd list the numbers First removed the contaminants with something like Acetone... then lay each plate over a 600 grit black dry emory paper and rotate in a circle... you're just busting the glaze... don't get carried away remove too much material... You should end up with a friction plate looks dull like a new one as opposed to a shinny glazed one... recheck thickness... Next check the pressure plates for bluing caused by localized heat... make sure they are not warped... the manual does not state a thickness range... now removed the contaminants with something like Acetone and wire wheeled them to erased the blue and also to generally scuff up the surface... you should end up with a dull surface free of Blue marks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Differnet clutches on different bikes , clutch strength varies(even brand new). Depending on how slick the oil is, can cause issues, with particular model. One time on my drz I was running redline oil, I thought i was imagining things on straight Flat cruising at 60 mph, felt like clutch would slightly release and recatch at times. It was so mild I thought it was in me head(2 weeks of this). I finally took it to a big uphill mountain and burned through the gears, hit top gear and slip slip, yeah its the clutch. Dumped the redline, installed a known good clutch oil(rotella) and went back and restested , no more issue. Should I spend $200 on a Reinforced beefed up clutch to run redline, or just use a Known good clutch oil. I know the easy answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 I think I've used mostly safe choices for oil and filters in my VFR. I bought it from the original owner at 2.5 years old and 4200 miles. That was almost 7 years and 64k miles ago, and she's still running strong. Also, to date I've noticed zero clutch slippage. I'm not sure if that's unusual at 68k miles, but I'm happy regardless. I change my oil every 3000 to 4000 miles (and a bit longer when running full synthetic). Here is a list of the oils I've used in that time, pretty much chronologically: -Valvoline conventional 10W-40 -Valvoline DuraBlend (synthetic/conventional) 10W-40 -Mobil 1 10W-40 Racing 4T -Mobil 1 High Mileage 10W-40 -Mobil 1 15W-50 -Rotella T 15W-40 (conventional) As for oil filters, I change it every time I change my oil. I buy good filters now, and usually buy a couple at a time - especially if they're on sale. Here is a list of the filters I've used: -Fram PH6607 (cheap but was effective - will never use again now that I know it's the worst option) -Wal-Mart SuperTech ST7137 (was made by Champion, but is no longer available) -Bosch 3300 (apparently made by Champion) -Purolator PureONE PL14612 -Mobil M1-108 (also apparently made by Champion) -K&N KN-204 I am absolutely no expert on motor oils, but what I have used has not seemed to hurt my VFR - even the conventional automobile oil I used for a couple years. Going forward I'm more likely to use full synthetic most of the time, as I don't mind the higher cost. When using cheaper conventional or blended oil, however, I simply change it out sooner, and use a good filter each time no matter what oil I'm running. NOTE: On the advice of a couple fellow VFRD members, I used the slightly heavier oils listed above in an attempt to alleviate front cam chain tensioner noise. It seems to work once the bike has been at its normally operating temperature for a few minutes. The front CCT has been clacking for quite awhile now. It usually doesn't bother me much (thanks to ear plugs), but sometimes it's very annoying. Though I haven't had a mechanical problem (breakdown) due to the front CCT, I am planning to finally fix it this off-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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