Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Tightwad

Fan Control - Choose To Turn Fan On Or Off Or Allow The Bike To Control

Recommended Posts

I have been approached about the idea of a manual fan control that would allow you to:

  • Turn the fan on early
  • turn the fan off (to reduce power draw)
  • allow normal mode

Another feature requested would be indicator lights that would show:

  • What status is selected
  • If the fan is turned off but the bike wants it on (blinking LED etc)...could even be audible alarm

What I am trying to determine is if there is interest in this on a wider scale. I have never felt the need to change how my fan operates but i spend little time in heavy traffic and I don't do track days or other cases that are different. My bike rarely runs hot although I have considered a manual "on" switch for the summer in the past.

Another outstanding question is....self powered or bike powered. I could personally go either way...the default operaton (even with the unit off) would be for the fan to operate as normal....so no harm if the battery dies on a self powered unit.

Feedback?

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's no davantage to turning a fan on earlier than it would be turned on by the stock temp. switch, and there's absolutely no advantage to turning it off before the temp. switch would. It does not use any more power than the bike can easily supply. Cooling fans on every vehicle, moto or auto, have been controlled by thermal switches with near 100% reliability.

Self powered makes no sense, the bike battery is perfectly capable of operating the fan under all circumstances. If your battery is incapable of operating the fan then it's likely the bike is not running, or is about to stop running.

This would seem to be a verry complicated way of doing something that is already done with perfect simplicity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I could see the want to turn the fan on early for those people who do get stuck in traffic and want the fan constantly running instead of clicking on and off as it may. Otherwise no.

I know that there are some systems that are tandem with an electric water pump, so that when you turn the ignition off, it will keep the pump and fan running for a determined amount of time. But I could only really see that in a track bike.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fan on early in traffic is the only thing I'm after but too lazy to sort it at the moment...

On the power draw - the VFR uses a shunt reg, the alternator runs full tilt all the time and excess power is drawn off by the RR as heat - running more farkles is beneficial to the system as it reduces the load on the RR...

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did this as a DIY mod last year, but not for power draw issues. I used a single pole, double throw switch and wired it in with the thermo switch. I use it to get ahead of the temperature curve and keep the engine from building as much heat when I know I'm going to be idling or riding very slowly. Then when I get going I can switch it off a while and then when things stabilize switch it back to normal mode. If I do get in to the 230+ degree range, as soon as I get moving at 30 to 35 mph I switch the fan off and the temp comes down more rapidly without the fan fighting the airflow. I had purchased a VTR fan blade to make that swap, but having installed this switch I'm not sure I will - this works very well - better than I expected. Since I installed this I've had no temperature issues at all.

What was suggested in the OP, an indicator light, would be very helpful. I tried to source a waterproof rocker switch that was illuminated, but couldn't fine one small enough to fit on my 6th gen where I wanted it. I'm accustomed to keeping up on switch configs, but on one occasion I forgot what "mode" it was in, and some sort of indicator, maybe a red and green LED (red = "no fan" and green = "fan operating" or similar) on the cockpit panel or something would be quite helpful. I positioned the switch on the left inner upper cowl panel next to the tank - though that's where the front ABS pump resides on a 6th gen, and getting a switch in there was tight. For non-ABS bikes there would be plenty of room in that location.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm going with a thermoswitch with a slightly lower temperature, and a manual override for in traffic. First I've got to take my U/S thermoswitch out, verify it's 16mm with 1.5 mm thread, and then off to the autoparts store. I've already got the manual override switch, which is just as well seeing the thermoswitch died shortly after (because of??) fitting the manual switch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did this as a DIY mod last year, but not for power draw issues. I used a single pole, double throw switch and wired it in with the thermo switch. I use it to get ahead of the temperature curve and keep the engine from building as much heat when I know I'm going to be idling or riding very slowly. Then when I get going I can switch it off a while and then when things stabilize switch it back to normal mode. If I do get in to the 230+ degree range, as soon as I get moving at 30 to 35 mph I switch the fan off and the temp comes down more rapidly without the fan fighting the airflow. I had purchased a VTR fan blade to make that swap, but having installed this switch I'm not sure I will - this works very well - better than I expected. Since I installed this I've had no temperature issues at all.

What was suggested in the OP, an indicator light, would be very helpful. I tried to source a waterproof rocker switch that was illuminated, but couldn't fine one small enough to fit on my 6th gen where I wanted it. I'm accustomed to keeping up on switch configs, but on one occasion I forgot what "mode" it was in, and some sort of indicator, maybe a red and green LED (red = "no fan" and green = "fan operating" or similar) on the cockpit panel or something would be quite helpful. I positioned the switch on the left inner upper cowl panel next to the tank - though that's where the front ABS pump resides on a 6th gen, and getting a switch in there was tight. For non-ABS bikes there would be plenty of room in that location.

I did a similar if not the same mod to mine so I can turn it on early sitting in traffic. The hotter she gets the hotter everything else gets (frame etc) and makes it take waaaaaaaay longer to cool back down. I don't really see the point in being able to turn it off, that sounds like a recipie for over cooking engines when you inevitable forget you turned it off or bumped the switch without knowing. An indicator of some sort would be nice to know when you have the switch turned on but I didn't see the need and just used a simple switch I had laying around that would handle 30A (maybe 20A, don't remember now, I figured if it got hot I needed a better switch, no issues so far).

To shorten up this statement a bit, I think a Tightwad fan override kit would be a good addition to your current arsenal of VFR farkles and sell well as much as VFR's run hotter than the sun!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My "mental failure mode" with this wasn't by leaving it off, but rather by leaving it on. I was running along at 70 mph and the temp kept hanging around 220 and wouldn't come down. Climbing hills it headed toward 230 and I was thinking 'WTF is going wrong . . . am I having a thermostat failure?? I'm going more than fast enough to cool this thing off." Then it suddenly hit me - I had left the fan running. :blush: No need to call me an idiot - I spent the next few hours doing that over and over. :laugh: It just took once though to teach me my lesson.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My "mental failure mode" with this wasn't by leaving it off, but rather by leaving it on. I was running along at 70 mph and the temp kept hanging around 220 and wouldn't come down. Climbing hills it headed toward 230 and I was thinking 'WTF is going wrong . . . am I having a thermostat failure?? I'm going more than fast enough to cool this thing off." Then it suddenly hit me - I had left the fan running. :blush: No need to call me an idiot - I spent the next few hours doing that over and over. :laugh: It just took once though to teach me my lesson.

+1 I would have to have a idiot light to remind me its ON ...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really?

Leaving the fan on will block airflow that much?

Find that hard to believe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really?

Leaving the fan on will block airflow that much?

Find that hard to believe.

I found it makes a huge difference. I noticed in stop light traffic, if you get the fan to started and start in motion, the fan pretty much cancels natural airflow. By turning the fan off at speeds above 25=30 mph, the cooling system works much better. I made a module that uses a freq counter to trigger a relay to kill the fan once speed is above 25-30 mph.

I also have found that running a little richer mixture in gears 1-4 goes a long way in keeping things cool. I also think a series reg helps also, less heat generated.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really?

Leaving the fan on will block airflow that much?

Find that hard to believe.

I found it makes a huge difference. I noticed in stop light traffic, if you get the fan to started and start in motion, the fan pretty much cancels natural airflow. By turning the fan off at speeds above 25=30 mph, the cooling system works much better. I made a module that uses a freq counter to trigger a relay to kill the fan once speed is above 25-30 mph.

I also have found that running a little richer mixture in gears 1-4 goes a long way in keeping things cool. I also think a series reg helps also, less heat generated.+1

+1 great idea .......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Am I correct in assuming that the fan pushes against normal airflow, then? I noticed that my fan pushes rather than pulls air. I had wondered if that was normal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes - the fan moves air from the outside of the fairing through to the area in front of the engine. IMO the auto-shutoff at around 30 mph or so would be trick feature and big plus for such a kit.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's no davantage to turning a fan on earlier than it would be turned on by the stock temp. switch, and there's absolutely no advantage to turning it off before the temp. switch would. It does not use any more power than the bike can easily supply. Cooling fans on every vehicle, moto or auto, have been controlled by thermal switches with near 100% reliability.

Self powered makes no sense, the bike battery is perfectly capable of operating the fan under all circumstances. If your battery is incapable of operating the fan then it's likely the bike is not running, or is about to stop running.

This would seem to be a verry complicated way of doing something that is already done with perfect simplicity.

This guy has never driven a vfr,

Fan on early in traffic is the only thing I'm after but too lazy to sort it at the moment...

On the power draw - the VFR uses a shunt reg, the alternator runs full tilt all the time and excess power is drawn off by the RR as heat - running more farkles is beneficial to the system as it reduces the load on the RR...

this guy knows what he's talking about. thumbs up buddy.

I did this as a DIY mod last year, but not for power draw issues. I used a single pole, double throw switch and wired it in with the thermo switch. I use it to get ahead of the temperature curve and keep the engine from building as much heat when I know I'm going to be idling or riding very slowly. Then when I get going I can switch it off a while and then when things stabilize switch it back to normal mode. If I do get in to the 230+ degree range, as soon as I get moving at 30 to 35 mph I switch the fan off and the temp comes down more rapidly without the fan fighting the airflow. I had purchased a VTR fan blade to make that swap, but having installed this switch I'm not sure I will - this works very well - better than I expected. Since I installed this I've had no temperature issues at all.

What was suggested in the OP, an indicator light, would be very helpful. I tried to source a waterproof rocker switch that was illuminated, but couldn't fine one small enough to fit on my 6th gen where I wanted it. I'm accustomed to keeping up on switch configs, but on one occasion I forgot what "mode" it was in, and some sort of indicator, maybe a red and green LED (red = "no fan" and green = "fan operating" or similar) on the cockpit panel or something would be quite helpful. I positioned the switch on the left inner upper cowl panel next to the tank - though that's where the front ABS pump resides on a 6th gen, and getting a switch in there was tight. For non-ABS bikes there would be plenty of room in that location.

You are good where you are at. I tried the vtr fan blade and while it works great if you are moving at 25 mph or more, it is incappable of cooling the bike off while stuck in traffic. blowing hot, stagnant, engine compartment air across the radiator will not drop temps.

I did this as a DIY mod last year, but not for power draw issues. I used a single pole, double throw switch and wired it in with the thermo switch. I use it to get ahead of the temperature curve and keep the engine from building as much heat when I know I'm going to be idling or riding very slowly. Then when I get going I can switch it off a while and then when things stabilize switch it back to normal mode. If I do get in to the 230+ degree range, as soon as I get moving at 30 to 35 mph I switch the fan off and the temp comes down more rapidly without the fan fighting the airflow. I had purchased a VTR fan blade to make that swap, but having installed this switch I'm not sure I will - this works very well - better than I expected. Since I installed this I've had no temperature issues at all.

What was suggested in the OP, an indicator light, would be very helpful. I tried to source a waterproof rocker switch that was illuminated, but couldn't fine one small enough to fit on my 6th gen where I wanted it. I'm accustomed to keeping up on switch configs, but on one occasion I forgot what "mode" it was in, and some sort of indicator, maybe a red and green LED (red = "no fan" and green = "fan operating" or similar) on the cockpit panel or something would be quite helpful. I positioned the switch on the left inner upper cowl panel next to the tank - though that's where the front ABS pump resides on a 6th gen, and getting a switch in there was tight. For non-ABS bikes there would be plenty of room in that location.

I did a similar if not the same mod to mine so I can turn it on early sitting in traffic. The hotter she gets the hotter everything else gets (frame etc) and makes it take waaaaaaaay longer to cool back down. I don't really see the point in being able to turn it off, that sounds like a recipie for over cooking engines when you inevitable forget you turned it off or bumped the switch without knowing. An indicator of some sort would be nice to know when you have the switch turned on but I didn't see the need and just used a simple switch I had laying around that would handle 30A (maybe 20A, don't remember now, I figured if it got hot I needed a better switch, no issues so far).

To shorten up this statement a bit, I think a Tightwad fan override kit would be a good addition to your current arsenal of VFR farkles and sell well as much as VFR's run hotter than the sun!

You need to be able to cut the fan off for when you pull on the highway. If your fan is running and you're moving at 70 mph, your bike will heat up, as the fan is fighting the incoming forward airflow.

My "mental failure mode" with this wasn't by leaving it off, but rather by leaving it on. I was running along at 70 mph and the temp kept hanging around 220 and wouldn't come down. Climbing hills it headed toward 230 and I was thinking 'WTF is going wrong . . . am I having a thermostat failure?? I'm going more than fast enough to cool this thing off." Then it suddenly hit me - I had left the fan running. :blush: No need to call me an idiot - I spent the next few hours doing that over and over. :laugh: It just took once though to teach me my lesson.

+1 I would have to have a idiot light to remind me its ON ...

I usually just reach down an feel if its sucking or blowing. Easy with summer gloves, but with winter gloves on I have to rely on my voltage gauge.

At highway speeds I will be running 14.1 volts fan off and 14.0 volts fan on. The fan barely draws any power once its running, but you can see a decent voltage drop as it spools up, thats usually how I check whether its on or off if I am stumped.

Really?

Leaving the fan on will block airflow that much?

Find that hard to believe.

Yes its true

Tightwad can we get a switch to reverse the fan direction for when we're moving 25 mph and up, and normal direction below 25 mph.

I will be the first to buy that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know about "that much", but I do believe running the fan at speed will degrade cooling.(actually I don't know much at all, so be careful)

On my 5th Gen, I have a simple switch to turn on the fan early when confronted with low speed or traffic situations. It seems to work well. Nothing fancy. I have tried cooling system additives touted as heat reducers, but really did not see any improvement. This year my mechanic recommended top shelf "automotive" coolant and the temp.s are holding better than ever. My thermostat seems to open right at the 220 mark, if and when things start heating up. Depends a lot on ambient temps, terrain, duration, etc.

Running at decent speeds in 6-8000 RPM range temps drop or hold around 180.

GoVFR

Ride Safe

Really?

Leaving the fan on will block airflow that much?

Find that hard to believe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes - the fan moves air from the outside of the fairing through to the area in front of the engine. IMO the auto-shutoff at around 30 mph or so would be trick feature and big plus for such a kit.

This is confusing to me. My fan blows air from underneath the fairing to the outside of the fairing. It pushes air through the radiator rather than pulling air through the radiator. If I am reading your description correctly, it is going in the wrong direction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have made this mod a while ago & is great in summer city's heavy traffic. You can see it (if you try a little harder) on the left side of the (black plastic) dashboard with a small LED on op of it: http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/gallery/image/61725-new-clutch/

The 12V LED shows/remind me if the switch/blower is on or off. The switch is small and on the low power side of the relay so no or low chances of cooking the switch.

This was placed before I swapped the blade wit a VTR's. With the VTR blade in place it was very seldom for me to use the switch anymore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes - the fan moves air from the outside of the fairing through to the area in front of the engine. IMO the auto-shutoff at around 30 mph or so would be trick feature and big plus for such a kit.

This is confusing to me. My fan blows air from underneath the fairing to the outside of the fairing. It pushes air through the radiator rather than pulling air through the radiator. If I am reading your description correctly, it is going in the wrong direction.

Ah not the 'wrong' direction, but rather the 'opposite' direction of the natural flow during riding.

Brian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good point CandyRed, didn't think about the times I get on the highway right after getting outta heavy traffic. Of course, if she's still too hot @ 70, maybe more speed is required.............. :goofy::comp13:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A conmutator to change fan rotation direction with led indicator (thanks to holleros)

wwXA7.jpg

Edited by Arri
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A conmutator to change fan rotation direction with led indicator (thanks to holleros)

wwXA7.jpg

My first 'speed switch' actually reversed the fan, but I found it didn't lower the temp any faster then 'fan off' above 25-30 mph since the fan blade design is maximized for one direction. I also found that if the fans running and you flop the polarity without a pause, it pisses the motor off for no real reason.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A conmutator to change fan rotation direction with led indicator (thanks to holleros)

wwXA7.jpg

The power/current draw will fry up your switch. Not sure how much is the amperage of the blower's motor but for sure the switch from the picture won't last for long. Not to mention that the blade-s made to have better efficiency in one direction only.

Variable rot/min don't thing is an efficient idea.

My thought is on lower set temp for the temp switch, manual override for on position and, if so much like, a VTR blade.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a manual override on my 4th. gen. And also had it on my previous, a 3rd. gen. Simply to prevent it getting too hot in stop-go traffic. Never had any issues with the fan getting proper power at idle. Like others have said, other things will start to flicker and sputter before the fan becomes a problem, and it's a sign of charging/batt issues elsewhere.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know why everyone seems to think that the fan draws so much current. It really doesn't use a lot of power. The fan only uses a fraction of what the highbeams do. When I kick on the fan, it momentarily draws a good deal of current as it gets up to speed, and then stabilizes as a 0.10 drop in voltage.

The idea that reversing the fan direction at speed doesn't work because the blades aren't optimized for that direction does make sense though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy.