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Can We Reduce Engine Braking?


Guest ohlarikd

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Guest redlad

Hey guys and gals im new to the site and have a bit of a prob with my cam chain tensioner problem is ITS NOT THERE well not as shown in the pics anyone know where else it could be or what else i can do to get that nasty rattle out of my bike i have pulled throttle body off and everything and nothing had a friend come over and he cant figure it out either

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Hey guys and gals im new to the site and have a bit of a prob with my cam chain tensioner problem is ITS NOT THERE well not as shown in the pics anyone know where else it could be or what else i can do to get that nasty rattle out of my bike i have pulled throttle body off and everything and nothing had a friend come over and he cant figure it out either

What year is your MC ? There are shop manuals for most years on this forum.

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/76-cam-chain-tensioner-without-throttle-body-removal/page-3?hl=%2Bcam+%2Btentioner#entry659853

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Guest ohlarikd

Did you try Mohawks suggestion a few posts up?

I am not sure if you are directing this at me or not. My bike is still apart because I have been waiting for the vacuum sync tool which should arrive tomorrow. Once I get it all together, I will mess with the Idle to see if I can reduce this - I think it will work as it makes sense on paper.

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Yes it was directed at you.

First off, you don't need your bike apart to do the throttle body / starter valve sync. The only thing you should have to do is prop the tank up and maybe the seat and some plastics. I've done it on a handful of bikes and have never had to do any sort of disassembly where I couldn't immediately take the bike out for a spin.

Second, Mohawks suggestion will determine if messing with the idle and trying to leave them open is going to do anything or not. Much easier than messing with things on an unfamiliar bike and possibly getting into a predicament.

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Guest ohlarikd

Yes it was directed at you.

First off, you don't need your bike apart to do the throttle body / starter valve sync. The only thing you should have to do is prop the tank up and maybe the seat and some plastics. I've done it on a handful of bikes and have never had to do any sort of disassembly where I couldn't immediately take the bike out for a spin.

Second, Mohawks suggestion will determine if messing with the idle and trying to leave them open is going to do anything or not. Much easier than messing with things on an unfamiliar bike and possibly getting into a predicament.

The air box/intake has to come off. Everything is under that - no other way. It's easy, no big deal, but its been apart like that since last week... just waiting.

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Guest ohlarikd

Ok - TBs SYNCED. Idle at 1600 instead of 1200. The bike is awesome! Truthfully, its probably just the increased idle since I can see that it opens up the air tract at 0% throttle a little bit more, reducing vacuum a noticeable amount. I had no idea that is how it could work until I started this adventure. Perhaps the newly synced valves are part of it, but it was probably ok before I started mucking with those.

When I first messed with the starter valves willy nilly in my rush to mess with stuff, the IDLE ended up at 2000, which explained why I had almost ZERO engine braking.

I will mess around with IDLE settings and see what effects it has on the engine braking. I only had time tonight for a quick shakedown run down the street. Anyway, things are looking UP!

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Ok - TBs SYNCED. Idle at 1600 instead of 1200. The bike is awesome! Truthfully, its probably just the increased idle since I can see that it opens up the air tract at 0% throttle a little bit more, reducing vacuum a noticeable amount. I had no idea that is how it could work until I started this adventure. Perhaps the newly synced valves are part of it, but it was probably ok before I started mucking with those.

When I first messed with the starter valves willy nilly in my rush to mess with stuff, the IDLE ended up at 2000, which explained why I had almost ZERO engine braking.

I will mess around with IDLE settings and see what effects it has on the engine braking. I only had time tonight for a quick shakedown run down the street. Anyway, things are looking UP!

Great.

So now I understand that your engine braking was perhaps more than mine and others' due to low idle.

My idle is set at 1600 or whatever the RPM gauge tells me 1600 is and I never saw it as an issue. I might have too if my idle was lower. Who knows.

Any way, enjoy your "new" ride :beer:

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Guest ohlarikd

Great.

So now I understand that your engine braking was perhaps more than mine and others' due to low idle.

My idle is set at 1600 or whatever the RPM gauge tells me 1600 is and I never saw it as an issue. I might have too if my idle was lower. Who knows.

Any way, enjoy your "new" ride :beer:

The user manual says IDLE should be set to 1200 RPM. For me, that is producing more engine braking than I prefer. Bumping to 1600 really made a difference. I will set back to 1200 and see if the old symptoms come back, or if it was out of sync starter valves. A starter valve or two can be more closed than the others and make more pronounced braking, but I doubt it was initially out that much. They really can't move unless you mean too, and the bike only had 5600 miles on it.

And yes, I think I will go have a beer! Thanks

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the IDLE ended up at 2000, which explained why I had almost ZERO engine braking.

That'll do it. :laugh:

Had an issue with the throttle linkage on my other bike. First it just seemed extra peppy that day.

Then in the slower twisty bits, I realized it wasn't going down to idle speed when I let off the throttle.

Not so good. :rolleyes:

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I think some of you guys are misunderstanding me. I know I can adjust my riding technique. Its no big deal. I merely asked in the beginning if we could reduce engine braking more to MY liking. I like less engine braking. Is that so horrible? Some of you are quick to pass judgement like I don't know what I am doing. Everyone has preferences in how a bike feels. I like less, you may like it just the way it is. Why is this such a debate?

Yeah your right but heck man remember where you are at . Its good to try to improve your VFR, this is almost as bad as the dreaded oil thread but hey you almost got everybody involved.

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Ok - TBs SYNCED. Idle at 1600 instead of 1200. The bike is awesome! Truthfully, its probably just the increased idle since I can see that it opens up the air tract at 0% throttle a little bit more, reducing vacuum a noticeable amount. I had no idea that is how it could work until I started this adventure. Perhaps the newly synced valves are part of it, but it was probably ok before I started mucking with those.

When I first messed with the starter valves willy nilly in my rush to mess with stuff, the IDLE ended up at 2000, which explained why I had almost ZERO engine braking.

I will mess around with IDLE settings and see what effects it has on the engine braking. I only had time tonight for a quick shakedown run down the street. Anyway, things are looking UP!

Ok - TBs SYNCED. Idle at 1600 instead of 1200. The bike is awesome! Truthfully, its probably just the increased idle since I can see that it opens up the air tract at 0% throttle a little bit more, reducing vacuum a noticeable amount. I had no idea that is how it could work until I started this adventure. Perhaps the newly synced valves are part of it, but it was probably ok before I started mucking with those.

When I first messed with the starter valves willy nilly in my rush to mess with stuff, the IDLE ended up at 2000, which explained why I had almost ZERO engine braking.

I will mess around with IDLE settings and see what effects it has on the engine braking. I only had time tonight for a quick shakedown run down the street. Anyway, things are looking UP!

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Good to know my videos are still out there helping folks even though I've moved onto BMWs...

Anyway, the engine braking was one of my FAVOURITE things about my VFR. I used to love slamming it down a gear from high revs and just letting the bike slow me down while roaring its head off. *Especially* in traffic! The sound of a VFR with aftermarket pipes on the overrun is something I will miss forever.

Even after ten years, my 2002 VFR800 still turned heads with its fat baby-eight exhaust note. If only the fuel injection wasn't so wonky...

Also worth pointing out that I believe Ducati controls engine braking in the new Panigale motor by keeping the valves open on the overrun (I think it was exhaust valves). Doesn't help with the VFR of course, but people have solutions to the problem out there.

I'm with you, I love the engine-breake too, won't trade it for any other bike because of that.

And my wife keeps shouting: You brake far too late to be normal! :beer:

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Good to know my videos are still out there helping folks even though I've moved onto BMWs...

Anyway, the engine braking was one of my FAVOURITE things about my VFR. I used to love slamming it down a gear from high revs and just letting the bike slow me down while roaring its head off. *Especially* in traffic! The sound of a VFR with aftermarket pipes on the overrun is something I will miss forever.

Even after ten years, my 2002 VFR800 still turned heads with its fat baby-eight exhaust note. If only the fuel injection wasn't so wonky...

Also worth pointing out that I believe Ducati controls engine braking in the new Panigale motor by keeping the valves open on the overrun (I think it was exhaust valves). Doesn't help with the VFR of course, but people have solutions to the problem out there.

I'm with you, I love the engine-breake too, won't trade it for any other bike because of that.

And my wife keeps shouting: You brake far too late to be normal! :beer:

Yeah mine does too and she shouts ' WHAT IF YOUR BRAKES FAIL" you want be able to stop in time.

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  • 2 months later...
Guest ohlarikd

Well, I put the IDLE back to 1200. For some reason, [when I set the Idle to 1800] the bike would hang at 3000 RPMs in I think 2nd or 3rd with no throttle input. I guess that little extra air, the fuel mapping, the ECU, FI, etc. all conspire to just not like a 1800 Idle.

So - I put it back down to stock 1200 and it rides perfectly now. Well it rides as it was designed. So my 12 page thread turns out to be what everyone told me - a waste of time! :)

I can take a beating. At least I know now and can let things be.

Edited by ohlarikd
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Wow, 12 pages of posts just to realize that 1200 RPM idle is too low and provides a lot of engine braking. I realized that on the ride home after buying my bike. The previous owner had the idle set to 1100 RPM and letting off the throttle was pretty abrupt. As soon I got in the garage I set the idle to 1400 RPM have have been as happy as a clam since.

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Guest ohlarikd

Wow, 12 pages of posts just to realize that 1200 RPM idle is too low and provides a lot of engine braking. I realized that on the ride home after buying my bike. The previous owner had the idle set to 1100 RPM and letting off the throttle was pretty abrupt. As soon I got in the garage I set the idle to 1400 RPM have have been as happy as a clam since.

To be fair, the user manual says to set it to 1200. I still think its too low, but then I think I set it too high at 1800.

I edited my statement above. Perhaps it wasn't clear. When Idle is high at 1800, I get the strange 3000 rpm hanging problem. It will just motor along at 3000 rpm down the road with no throttle input. So too high I guess.

Edited by ohlarikd
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Sorry, I didn't mean that to sound like I was busting your chops, ohlarkid. I wasn't. I was just amazed to see a thread on the subject with so many posts.

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Well, I put the IDLE back to 1200. For some reason, [when I set the Idle to 1800] the bike would hang at 3000 RPMs in I think 2nd or 3rd with no throttle input. I guess that little extra air, the fuel mapping, the ECU, FI, etc. all conspire to just not like a 1800 Idle.

So - I put it back down to stock 1200 and it rides perfectly now. Well it rides as it was designed. So my 12 page thread turns out to be what everyone told me - a waste of time! :)

I can take a beating. At least I know now and can let things be.

I actually read through your thread - and was curious what your end result would be. Good job on following it through to the end!! I'd also like to say good job on not flaming the members that sometimes appeared to have "less than encouraging comments" to throw at you - your diplomatic skills are clearly a strong attribute.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have always adjusted the idle to 1400 on all 3 VFR800s I have had.. remember, the manual says 1200+/-100.. so I'm only a smidgen over that spec.. The weak charging system on these bikes also benefits from this slight increase, compensating for low charge at idle when fan comes on.

I must say though, my recent substitution of the OEM exhaust for Laser Extremes really backed the engine braking off considerably, to the point where I have had to conscientiously adjust my braking habits to avoid blowing corner entry.. had a few heart in mouth experiences at first.

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Well, I put the IDLE back to 1200. For some reason, [when I set the Idle to 1800] the bike would hang at 3000 RPMs in I think 2nd or 3rd with no throttle input. I guess that little extra air, the fuel mapping, the ECU, FI, etc. all conspire to just not like a 1800 Idle.

So - I put it back down to stock 1200 and it rides perfectly now. Well it rides as it was designed. So my 12 page thread turns out to be what everyone told me - a waste of time! :)

I can take a beating. At least I know now and can let things be.

Little question, did you remove valve-pairing and flapper?

In short, did you remove the CO2-maffia rubbish that kills the real handling of the bike?

As idle and low speed problems are typical a problem of Valve-pairing-system (that you want to remove/kill) and Flapper (that you also want to kill).

When you do that, you end up with a new bike that rides a 1000x times better then stock.

And fun part, it costs only 5 cents to do it in a screw (flapper vacume-tube close) and 5 cents pairing (marbles to block it.)

This crap is on all new bikes, not just the VFR's. Remove the CO2 maffia crap and it runs far better then anything you tried so far :cheerleader:

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