Member Contributer MaxSwell Posted April 2, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 2, 2013 The dealer did both of mine. Is there a way to tell if they are correct, since I have no stock measurement to compare to? the difference is too small to really matter. It's splitting hairs. 2mm one way or the other, it's nothing really. now 10mm does make a noticeable difference. Fabulous. That is just what I want to hear. My brain just cannot imagine the spatial relationships described above. I'd blame my age but it may be all the concussions. I'm going to stop thinking about it and get back to dreaming of T-Mac this year. Yeah, that's more like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer huntinggunns Posted April 2, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 2, 2013 Gary, just because my OCD will not let me sleep until I know exactly what the difference is, just ask Steve, I had to measure the bearings when I got home. I just pulled out both sets and this is what I came up with for total height. This is in thousandths of an inch. I always convert when I work on stuff as I do not have a nifty metric set of calipers, just my faithful old pair of SAE calipers. All Balls Upper: .600 Lower: .675 OE Upper: .580 Lower: .665 So, this means that the lower triple is .010 further down with the all balls than the OE and the upper bridge is .020 higher that OE. Veefer is right, less than 1mm difference is just not enough to care about but because I have a serious case of OCD, I really want to know what the difference is in relation to keeping the forks at the same height as recommended in the service manual. What would you add to that measurement to keep them at the set height. I suck at trig and algebra btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V4 Rosso Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 You have to substract 0.020" from the height mentioned in the service manual. But why you should not bother with it is because there are a lot of other things that change geometry quite a bit more than raising or lowering the forks by 0.020". Like preload, amount of fuel, changes in rider weight (gear) or luggage to name a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted April 2, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 2, 2013 You have to substract 0.020" from the height mentioned in the service manual. But why you should not bother with it is because there are a lot of other things that change geometry quite a bit more than raising or lowering the forks by 0.020". Like preload, amount of fuel, changes in rider weight (gear) or luggage to name a few. +1 Now the dust cover not fitting correctly that's whole different matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 A few raindrops on the windscreen will compress the forks 0.020" NEXT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer huntinggunns Posted April 3, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 3, 2013 A few raindrops on the windscreen will compress the forks 0.020" NEXT! That means a whole bunch of rain drops will compress the tubes 0.040? A LOT of this conversation with Gary is just pointless banter. Haven't seen him in a while and I like to talk with engineers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 By all means Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted April 3, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 3, 2013 I will just keep mine dropped 12-14mm and not worry about the 0.020" which is less of an impact than tire wear... You have to substract 0.020" from the height mentioned in the service manual.But why you should not bother with it is because there are a lot of other things that change geometry quite a bit more than raising or lowering the forks by 0.020". Like preload, amount of fuel, changes in rider weight (gear) or luggage to name a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2thdr Posted April 3, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 3, 2013 Do you ever have problems dragging header pipes, center stand, etc? I guess your talking about 1/2-3/4" right? I will just keep mine dropped 12-14mm and not worry about the 0.020" which is less of an impact than tire wear... You have to substract 0.020" from the height mentioned in the service manual.But why you should not bother with it is because there are a lot of other things that change geometry quite a bit more than raising or lowering the forks by 0.020". Like preload, amount of fuel, changes in rider weight (gear) or luggage to name a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted April 3, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 3, 2013 I did when the rear shock was stock and the fork height was factory, the bike would G out in some banked turns and drag the header on the right on the right and the centerstand on the left. With the rear raised about as much as the front is dropped and proper spring/valve rates on both ends the bike drags nothing hard. You can find a balance point with front/rear ride height by raising the rear as much as possible (with washers above the shock mount or by lengthening the shock if you have that option). Once you raise the rear your chicken strips will be on the front only (if you are getting the bike over to the edge of the rear tire) or at least very heavily biased to the front. Then you start to drop your front on the forks incrementally ( 3-5 mm to start then 2-3mm each time you lower it) until your front tire starts to wear to the edge...that is when I know I have my bike balanced front to rear the way that I like it. I think you could do the same without raising the rear but would need to be concious of the potential to scrape hard parts if you start with stock springs and rear ride height. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2thdr Posted April 3, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 3, 2013 Thanks for that info. Just had my stock forks resprung and revalved by JDM, and F4i shock resprung and revalved. My first test ride weekend in AR was successful, with really no complaints. Most of the corners in Arkansas seem to be not very banked, so I don't really worry about dragging parts, but I have seen photos of the roads where Tmac is held and so the question. My challenge in raising the rear is my short inseam. I'm afraid if I drop the front only, I will not have the bike balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted April 3, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 3, 2013 Now that you have your JDM suspension installed (and I am assuming the sag set correctly) how do your tires look front to rear? With the new springs even if you are vertically challenged I think you drop the front a bit and when you do you can probably fit at least a thin washer above your shock mount. The banked turns in the TMac ride area actually help prevent hard parts dragging and work to help you increase speeds while not having to lean as far. Sometimes on the high speed stuff (Richard B Russel for example) this can result in enough speed being carried to compress the suspension and drag parts. take a look at your tires and see if you are balanced front to rear. and btw, there is no right or wrong answer, some people prefer to ride the front harder and some the rear tire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gswanson Posted April 3, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 3, 2013 I agree with Rosso about subtracting the .020. I also agree with Veefer800 that it is not enough to worry about. Without knowing the actual bearing thicknesses, I just wanted to understand and be sure of what I was reading here. I didn't want it to turn into an argument or pissing contest. Just trying to get the facts, maam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted April 4, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 4, 2013 I measured earlier today and my forks are 30mm below FSM setting, I have 71mm showing above the top triple compared with 41mm recommended. After I install the new shock lateer this week I will check the rear ride compared with stock and see if I can raise my front up maybe 5-8mm. to stay OT, I have stock steering head bearings...waiting to install my all balls until I switch to USD forks in the winter,these looked good so I just packed with new grease and it feels really smooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wera803 Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 I measured earlier today and my forks are 30mm below FSM setting, I have 71mm showing above the top triple compared with 41mm recommended. After I install the new shock lateer this week I will check the rear ride compared with stock and see if I can raise my front up maybe 5-8mm. to stay OT, I have stock steering head bearings...waiting to install my all balls until I switch to USD forks in the winter,these looked good so I just packed with new grease and it feels really smooth. Holy F@#$! 30 mm drop? Is the upper fairing riding on the front fender? I think I am going to drop mine this weekend some too......probably just start with 10 mm though. Currently it is in the stock position, because of the old set-up I had. Now the springs have been changed to better suit me, the front end kind of feels like it is up in the air and just lofting around like a cruiser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer YoshiHNS Posted April 5, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 5, 2013 I think I have a 71mm drop too. But I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that I have the longer F3(?) fork tubes instead of the VFR tubes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted April 6, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 6, 2013 I found out when I sent my shock in with the fork from the new 98 that the Ohlins had 850 spring on it and was stock VFR rate and valving. Traxxion removed two droop stop bumpers and therefore extended the length of the shock by 5mm. I will install it and shim the top mount with a washer then see how high I can get it while still getting the triangle on. Then I may be able to raise the front a touch. Chris is running my old 01 with a 68mm tube height (that would be 27mm down) with no problems but last year while trying to get my old 98 to turn for me with my forks on it not Bills) I dropped it until the front tire would slide on hard G's with braking (apparently from contact with the front head)...and it still never drug the centerstand. It was bad enough that Jeremy wouldn't ride it past Killboy and he rode his 6yh gen with NO FORK SEALS?FOIL OIL!!!! my stiffer front with the softer Ohlins was handful. I should have put Bills forks back on his bike but I am stubborn. I'll let you know what I end up at for fork tube above triple measurement...I think you go 10-12 mm to start with no problem, it wont feel like a chopper anymore.. I measured earlier today and my forks are 30mm below FSM setting, I have 71mm showing above the top triple compared with 41mm recommended. After I install the new shock lateer this week I will check the rear ride compared with stock and see if I can raise my front up maybe 5-8mm. to stay OT, I have stock steering head bearings...waiting to install my all balls until I switch to USD forks in the winter,these looked good so I just packed with new grease and it feels really smooth. Holy F@#$! 30 mm drop? Is the upper fairing riding on the front fender? I think I am going to drop mine this weekend some too......probably just start with 10 mm though. Currently it is in the stock position, because of the old set-up I had. Now the springs have been changed to better suit me, the front end kind of feels like it is up in the air and just lofting around like a cruiser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer vfrcapn Posted April 6, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 6, 2013 A few raindrops on the windscreen will compress the forks 0.020" NEXT! I had one of those 2 lb. burritos for lunch today, how much should I raise the front end?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 A few raindrops on the windscreen will compress the forks 0.020" NEXT! I had one of those 2 lb. burritos for lunch today, how much should I raise the front end?? No need to. The gaseous emissions cause greater acceleration, keeping the front end higher. As a matter of fact, you might need some anit-wheelie control like the MotoGP bikes have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wera803 Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 I found out when I sent my shock in with the fork from the new 98 that the Ohlins had 850 spring on it and was stock VFR rate and valving. Traxxion removed two droop stop bumpers and therefore extended the length of the shock by 5mm. I will install it and shim the top mount with a washer then see how high I can get it while still getting the triangle on. Then I may be able to raise the front a touch. Chris is running my old 01 with a 68mm tube height (that would be 27mm down) with no problems but last year while trying to get my old 98 to turn for me with my forks on it not Bills) I dropped it until the front tire would slide on hard G's with braking (apparently from contact with the front head)...and it still never drug the centerstand. It was bad enough that Jeremy wouldn't ride it past Killboy and he rode his 6yh gen with NO FORK SEALS?FOIL OIL!!!! my stiffer front with the softer Ohlins was handful. I should have put Bills forks back on his bike but I am stubborn. I'll let you know what I end up at for fork tube above triple measurement...I think you go 10-12 mm to start with no problem, it wont feel like a chopper anymore.. I lowered the front end Friday night about 11 mm in hopes of a trial ride today. Too bad in the process I noticed one of my newly rebuilt forks leaking. So much for the "better" seals that JD put in less than 1k miles ago. Guess I will be going back to the Honda seals I had in my spare parts bin, just need to get some fork oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 check your fork tubes for fresh nicks. it may not be the seal's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wera803 Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 check your fork tubes for fresh nicks. it may not be the seal's fault. I'll check it over this weekend when I get it torn apart. I went back in my notes and found that the same fork started leaking right before I took them to JD for a rebuild. I asked him to check the bushings and replace if there were any questions. He installed new seals too, so I assume he checked out the tubes. Hopefully it is just a seal that didn't last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer FJ12Ryder Posted April 8, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 8, 2013 A good hard Arkansas stone will take down any nicks without adding scratches. Just be sure it's a fine, hard stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wera803 Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 A good hard Arkansas stone will take down any nicks without adding scratches. Just be sure it's a fine, hard stone. And where might someone get one of these stones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer FJ12Ryder Posted April 9, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 9, 2013 A good sporting goods store will carry them. Larger ones are used for sharpening knives, but they should have a small selection of small stones too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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