Member Contributer KevininAtlanta Posted March 31, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted March 31, 2013 Has anyone replaced the ball bearings in the steering head with tapered roller bearings? There is an article on this topic in the current issue of Cycle World. Apparently, the roller bearings create a smoother turn of the forks and longer life span. My ball bearings don't need to be replaced at 29,0000 miles, but I'd like to have plan for when they do. ALL BALLS was the bearing manufacturer mentioned in this article and the pricing is approximately $30-40. Kevin in Atlanta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NakedViffer Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Very common modification around here, I'm about to install my first set in the next few day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer YoshiHNS Posted March 31, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted March 31, 2013 Think there are a handful or dozen threads about it. Pretty much the recommended change. They add a little bit of height to the forks, so you should lower the triples down the forks 3-4mm to retain the same steering feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 And don't tighten them as much as ROUND roller bearings. If you do, you'll have a low speed weave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted March 31, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted March 31, 2013 ALL BALLS used there bearing for years great people .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2thdr Posted April 1, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 1, 2013 Just did it a couple weeks ago with the expert help of huntinggunns...no low speed shake now and smoothest steering I've had since owning the bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MaxSwell Posted April 1, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 1, 2013 I've put them in both of my machines; old gal at 80,000 mi, the youngster at 30,000. Fabulous results. Don't leave home without them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspanglish Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 They add a little bit of height to the forks, so you should lower the triples down the forks 3-4mm to retain the same steering feel. I've read on here several times people who debate this rise in height as not being so. Can we get a consensus on this? I lower my triples anyway so it doesn't bother me either way but it would be good to knock the issue on the head once and for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MaxSwell Posted April 1, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 1, 2013 They add a little bit of height to the forks, so you should lower the triples down the forks 3-4mm to retain the same steering feel. I've read on here several times people who debate this rise in height as not being so. Can we get a consensus on this? I lower my triples anyway so it doesn't bother me either way but it would be good to knock the issue on the head once and for all. What is this height thing. I know nothing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2thdr Posted April 1, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 1, 2013 The discrepancy comes from the fact the bearing races for the roller bearings that are press fit into the frame are a few millimeters taller than the stock ball bearing races. This effectively moves the triples higher in relation to the frame necessitating the lowering of the triples on the fork tubes to compensate. I think Bailyrock may be the one that actually measured the difference. Huntinggunns can correct me if I am wrong in describing the "higher / lower" terms, but I think I have it right. Once you see this process done, it is self-explanitory... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer huntinggunns Posted April 1, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 1, 2013 The discrepancy comes from the fact the bearing races for the roller bearings that are press fit into the frame are a few millimeters taller than the stock ball bearing races. This effectively moves the triples higher in relation to the frame necessitating the lowering of the triples on the fork tubes to compensate. I think Bailyrock may be the one that actually measured the difference. Huntinggunns can correct me if I am wrong in describing the "higher / lower" terms, but I think I have it right. Once you see this process done, it is self-explanitory... You got it Steve. The all balls are a taller bearing set. When the triple is placed through the frame tube the bearing causes the triple to set about 2 mm lower than normal. Therefore, you have to raise the forks up a couple mm to compensate for this. Sent from my crazy hand held thingy using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer FJ12Ryder Posted April 1, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 1, 2013 I changed out mine and like the difference, but then the old ones were really notched. I don't know what the difference in height is but 4 millimeters is a little more than 1/8" so you may not even notice the difference. And don't be too sure yours don't need to be replaced at 29,000 miles, mine had 31,000 miles and were severely pitted, but the front end is heavy enough that you really don't notice it until you pull the front tire off and check the feel then. You may notice a bit of vagueness and lack of steadyness in a corner, but it occurs so slowly over time that you may not notice the change. After you do it, it's like "Wow!! I can't believe they were that bad!". I bought mine from a bearing house because I had heard that All Balls uses Chinese bearings and the price wasn't much different. It's not that big of a job, if you're comfortable with hand tools and bearing replacement. The front end comes completely apart so it's not a ten minute job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2thdr Posted April 1, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 1, 2013 As a witness to someone with the know-how, it is obvious that done correctly it is a job that can take some time and attention to detail in setting the fork tubes before (and during) torquing them down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NakedViffer Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 I'll try and remember to get a measurement when I do mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gswanson Posted April 1, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 1, 2013 OK, let's see if I got this straight. The All Balls races are each 2mm thicker than the stock races. This will displace the upper and lower triple trees an equal 2mm, up and down, from their original, stock locations. So, if you measured the amount of fork tube sticking up above the upper triple tree with the stock bearings and got a reading of 30mm, then when you reinstall the fork tubes with the new bearings with 2mm thicker races, you should set them at 28mm above the upper triple tree to offset the change in position of the upper tree. This acutally keeps the forks in the same position relative to the headstock, but the height definately has to be changed relative to the upper tree. You are not really moving the fork tubes up or down, just changing the stock reference number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer FJ12Ryder Posted April 1, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 1, 2013 Kind of hard to tell where to measure from since the actual triple tree will be located differently, so you would maybe have to measure the spacing from the triple tree to the steering head, and compare that after the job is done and go from there. I didn't measure mine since I'm just not that perceptive. I figured if I would change things if I could feel the difference. I couldn't so I didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gswanson Posted April 1, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 1, 2013 Measure from the same spot on the upper triple tree to the top of the fork tube, either the split line where the cap meets the tube, or the top of the for cap (not the hex nut). Just make the new measurement 2mm less than the stock measurement. Disregard if I am not understandng things properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer YoshiHNS Posted April 1, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 1, 2013 Take your stock distance from the upper triple to the fork cap. Add 2-4mm to that number when you change from ball to roller. You will have more fork tube above the triple. Subtracting it will make your steering slower. I dropped my triples down 8-9mm and the steering difference is very noticeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MaxSwell Posted April 1, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 1, 2013 The dealer did both of mine. Is there a way to tell if they are correct, since I have no stock measurement to compare to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer VcFR Posted April 1, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 1, 2013 OK, let's see if I got this straight. The All Balls races are each 2mm thicker than the stock races. This will displace the upper and lower triple trees an equal 2mm, up and down, from their original, stock locations. So, if you measured the amount of fork tube sticking up above the upper triple tree with the stock bearings and got a reading of 30mm, then when you reinstall the fork tubes with the new bearings with 2mm thicker races, you should set them at 28mm above the upper triple tree to offset the change in position of the upper tree. This acutally keeps the forks in the same position relative to the headstock, but the height definately has to be changed relative to the upper tree. You are not really moving the fork tubes up or down, just changing the stock reference number. I'm not exactly sure it is 2mm Gary. I remember reading a thread somewhere and I think Seb stated that it was about 2mm difference. I can verify that the lower triple is about 1 mm further from the headstock with the all balls than with the OE bearing set so I assume that the top bridge will be about 1mm higher with the all balls than with the OE, thus giving the 2mm additional rise to the forks. So, you are right that you are only keeping the forks in the same relationship to the headstock by adding the 2mm. I have a set of both sitiing on the shelf that I can measure up and let you know exactly what the differences are if you would like. Edit for being a retard: I just noticed that my wife is logged into VFRD on this laptop and not me. I am going to have to tell her that she is pretty smart when it comes to bearings after reading this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 The dealer did both of mine. Is there a way to tell if they are correct, since I have no stock measurement to compare to? the difference is too small to really matter. It's splitting hairs. 2mm one way or the other, it's nothing really. now 10mm does make a noticeable difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V4 Rosso Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 I would only worry about the dust seal not sitting flush with the steering head, leaving a gap for dirt to get into the bearings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspanglish Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 I would only worry about the dust seal not sitting flush with the steering head, leaving a gap for dirt to get into the bearings. Damn it... I'm going down to the garage with a set of callipers to check if there's a gap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gswanson Posted April 2, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 2, 2013 I am not trying to start any controversy here, I can sometimes be pretty thick and slow to pick up on things. Disclaimer: I have never changed my steering stem bearings. It's just that what I have read doesn't make sense to me as an engineer. I just can't see how you raise the fork tubes in the triple trees (increasing the measurement from the top tree to the top of the fork tube) to keep the fork tubes in the same relative position to the headstock if you use thicker bearings. If both upper and lower bearings are 1mm thicker than stock (thanks Fred), then when installed you have spaced the trees 2mm farther apart, equally spaced 1mm up and 1mm down from their original stock locations. If you could do this while holding the fork tubes stationary with your universal sky hook, the measurement from the top triple tree to the top of the fork tube would be 1mm less than it was with stock bearings, all other considerations being equal. I agree that raising the fork tubes (increasing the measurement from the top tree to the top of the fork tube) will quicken the steering, but keeping all things relative, if the fork tubes don't move in relation to the headstock the measurement will decrease by using thicker bearings, especially the upper bearing. Now the important question: Which muffler bearing wax is best? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer FJ12Ryder Posted April 2, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 2, 2013 I would only worry about the dust seal not sitting flush with the steering head, leaving a gap for dirt to get into the bearings. That wasn't a problem when I did mine. It sat flush just like the original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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