Xiac Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Does anyone know what causes this engine noise? Is it something I should be worried about?This is a 2010 with 12k miles. My previous 6th gen with 35k made the same noise, so i'm inclined to think its normal, however my paranoia or OCD won't let it go until I know what the source is. When the bike is in low RPMs you can hear the normal engine noise of course, but there is also a metallic 'tapping' sound. This usually happens when its not warmed up. After riding to work and back at idle, I no longer hear the tapping sound. Here is what it sounds like: http://youtu.be/NkE4G5Ya8vw Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interceptorrider Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 I had it on my 6th gen. It was intermittent. Always bugged me. My 7th gen has never done it a 6000+ miles. Good luck. Ride safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilprofessore Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 I have not a DCT, but this noise is not normal. It seems a chain with too much freeplay, but it can be a worse reason. Go to the dealer immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiac Posted January 27, 2013 Author Share Posted January 27, 2013 Just turned it on tonight to show a buddy, and she was purring perfectly. Any more ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 If it was a 6th gen , sounds like the cct intermittant and clattery like that. Really I dont know why Honda makes their cct's with so much free play, they are not like precision bearing sufaces, and why New cct or old, they can all rattle. Its not the chain but the cct bodies are just loosely constructed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Sounds like CCT, but for kicks. Pull in the clutch lever and see if the ticking goes away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiac Posted January 27, 2013 Author Share Posted January 27, 2013 I'm not familiar with CCT. Clutch clatter technology, cat cutting tool? Its a DCT, so no clutch lever. It was not in gear when it was making the noise. I have heard it when its in gear and on the move, but only at lower speeds ( less than 20 mph?) My 6th did it for years with no ill effects. I'm really hoping its nothing because its beyond my ability to work in the engine, and I do NOT trust my local stealership. Edit: Just found it on google, and this sounds a lot like my issue: "Almost all Honda’s have a few common shortcomings in their design, some of these include charging systems and most commonly the Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner (commonly referred to as the CCT). This tensioner is actuated by oil pressure, and while it is a great concept it is prone to failure.The most common evidence of a failing CCT is a prominent rattle or ticking noise coming from the right side of the engine on a cold start (often mistaken for a noisy valve train), and the noise will go away when the engine reaches operating temperature and oil pressure is revived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilprofessore Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 In the VFR 1200 the Cam Chain Tensioner (CCT) is not hydraulic, but fully mechanic (with a spring). Then all the speculation that at low temperature it could be noisy is not correct. Also on the Vtec the CCTs are fully mechanic and the noise is due to the chain increased length (a tipical defect of Vtec). In my opinion, a noise so clear is not normal. It is similar to Vtec when the distribution chain start to go down. If you do not like the dealer, please check every time you start-up the engine the intensity of noise and if it changes type/frequency/duration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 In the VFR 1200 the Cam Chain Tensioner (CCT) is not hydraulic, but fully mechanic (with a spring). Then all the speculation that at low temperature it could be noisy is not correct. Also on the Vtec the CCTs are fully mechanic and the noise is due to the chain increased length (a tipical defect of Vtec). In my opinion, a noise so clear is not normal. It is similar to Vtec when the distribution chain start to go down. If you do not like the dealer, please check every time you start-up the engine the intensity of noise and if it changes type/frequency/duration. Many cct's do rattle more after intial startup and resolve in some cases once warm, its not due to hydraulics, but the plunger and body is FULL of slop and play, a combo of heat and oiling of the plunger body once full warm and differnt engine harmonics, may subside noisiness in some cases, but not always. Like I said though you can install new tensioners and they can rattle right off the bat(its just the way they are). Certain motoroils, also can have more or less issues with cct noise. If you go to manual tensioners, no more noise, cause you ridded the (plunger) slop and play of the oem tensioner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiac Posted April 15, 2013 Author Share Posted April 15, 2013 Believe it or not, everyone who commented on this thread was right. It was the cam chain tensioner, and it is not a hydraulic CCT. My bike has been in the shop for over five weeks, and should be coming back home tomorrow. A portion of the delay was dealing with my 3rd party warranty and delays with them approving the claim, and then my dealer had to call up Honda to get advice on the problem and how to fix it. There was a long delay getting parts, and then the lead mechanic quit in the middle of the repairs! I have been assured that the repair quality is sound, but it doesn't leave me with warm-and-fuzzies. For anyone interested, replacing the FRONT (only) CCT was around $1,500. I will have the final numbers tomorrow. The warranty covered all but $50, and since I was almost due for a valve service, I had that done at the same time. All the exhaust valves were tight. I was told by the dealer that the CCT for the rear should be replaced as well since it was from the same batch, same oil, same stress, etc. The warranty would not cover it thought, and the cost to me would have been $1,300. I elected not to do it. My warranty expires in December, so I expect that it will fail in January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted April 15, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 15, 2013 Just curious what type of oil have you been using ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 CCT's were a Hinda problem even back in the 70's and 80's especially with their CX 500/650. Many of my dad's Hondas ended up with the noisiest can chains that I used to cringe every time he drove into our garage and I could hear the awful knashing inside their engines... Why Honda just does not give up on the types of cam chain tensioners they use all together if they can after all these years in the business, never design one that would work good long enough is really weird...........and kinda dumb too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 1500 dollars oh my god, the part is about $75, and all you have to do is lift the tank and remove right side panel, i dont even remove the airbox, to replace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiac Posted April 16, 2013 Author Share Posted April 16, 2013 1500 dollars oh my god, the part is about $75, and all you have to do is lift the tank and remove right side panel, i dont even remove the airbox, to replace. On a 6th gen yes, however on a 7th gen you have to remove the entire cylinder head. Just curious what type of oil have you been using ? Castrol Actevo 10W-40 (partial synthetic). I change it twice a year, since i ride year round. this turns out be about once every 4,000 - 5,000 miles. I can't rule it out, but I don't think its related to the oil. By the way, those are almost exclusively commuting miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer fotodadi Posted April 16, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 16, 2013 1500 dollars oh my god, the part is about $75, and all you have to do is lift the tank and remove right side panel, i dont even remove the airbox, to replace. On a 6th gen yes, however on a 7th gen you have to remove the entire cylinder head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 1500 dollars oh my god, the part is about $75, and all you have to do is lift the tank and remove right side panel, i dont even remove the airbox, to replace. On a 6th gen yes, however on a 7th gen you have to remove the entire cylinder head. :ohmy: ...Remove entire cylinder head??! That's just "Devo" of Honda to put that requirement on the latest VFR just to be able to fix a problem that was chronic with their last model and now maybe the latest..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crakerjac Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Dragging up an old thread... but I've heard this noise before and I always thought it was coming from the exhaust... my heart sank when I watched the video as my VFR1200 has made this noise from day one (or at least within the first couple thousand miles). @Technicolor: after you had the front CCT replaced, did the noise go away? I'm just looking for a follow-up before you sell the bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted December 3, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted December 3, 2013 Believe it or not, everyone who commented on this thread was right. It was the cam chain tensioner, and it is not a hydraulic CCT. My bike has been in the shop for over five weeks, and should be coming back home tomorrow. A portion of the delay was dealing with my 3rd party warranty and delays with them approving the claim, and then my dealer had to call up Honda to get advice on the problem and how to fix it. There was a long delay getting parts, and then the lead mechanic quit in the middle of the repairs! I have been assured that the repair quality is sound, but it doesn't leave me with warm-and-fuzzies. For anyone interested, replacing the FRONT (only) CCT was around $1,500. I will have the final numbers tomorrow. The warranty covered all but $50, and since I was almost due for a valve service, I had that done at the same time. All the exhaust valves were tight. I was told by the dealer that the CCT for the rear should be replaced as well since it was from the same batch, same oil, same stress, etc. The warranty would not cover it thought, and the cost to me would have been $1,300. I elected not to do it. My warranty expires in December, so I expect that it will fail in January. That's ridiculous ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Yeah those 3rd party warranties dont offer much but alot of hype, even though they say nationwide coverage, most dealers wont honor them, cause too hard to get paid and argue over whats needed. Usually you end up having to take the bike back to the original selling dealer, they have to honor it. BTDT Even normal conditions, it days a few days to get anything authorised Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted December 3, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted December 3, 2013 CCT's were a Hinda problem even back in the 70's and 80's especially with their CX 500/650. Many of my dad's Hondas ended up with the noisiest can chains that I used to cringe every time he drove into our garage and I could hear the awful knashing inside their engines... Why Honda just does not give up on the types of cam chain tensioners they use all together if they can after all these years in the business, never design one that would work good long enough is really weird...........and kinda dumb too! + 1 !!! -Kinda avoiding any more Honda bikes with CCTs. I dont have much patience for fixing something that shouldnt need screwing with in the first damn place. ---------Gear driven cams = perfect.. Maintenance = zero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer swimmer Posted May 13, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted May 13, 2015 My 2012 with 10k miles has started some CCT noise when started from cold. Current Amsoil 10W-30 has 3100 miles on it. Last bike was a Tiger 800 so I am very familiar with CCT noise and just accepting it. I am not entrirely sure if I should get this looked at or just leave it. I generally think the noise is harmless but if I need to take some action I'd need to do it before October when my warranty expires. Is there anyone out there who has had this noise and just decided to not worry about it? If I thought the local Honda dealer had a great service dept I'd probably be a little more inclined to have it looked at. I always do all my own maintenance so leaving the bike in someone else's hands always creates some nervousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Is there anyone out there who has had this noise and just decided to not worry about it? Gradually it will get worse, to where it does it more often, if it just does it shortly after a cold start, and goes away once warm, you just beginning, it will get worse. It not the chain rattling but the tensioner body internals from lack of oil flow. Don't fix the oil flow and noise will come back, sometimes with a brand new tensioner, almost immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer swimmer Posted May 14, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted May 14, 2015 Is there anyone out there who has had this noise and just decided to not worry about it? Gradually it will get worse, to where it does it more often, if it just does it shortly after a cold start, and goes away once warm, you just beginning, it will get worse. It not the chain rattling but the tensioner body internals from lack of oil flow. Don't fix the oil flow and noise will come back, sometimes with a brand new tensioner, almost immediately. I know about the Gen6 oil flow issue and the gasket fix but, I wasn't aware the 1200 suffered from the same issue. Haven't heard of many having this problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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