Q2 vs PP/PR2 Combo

[kebrider]

I am 450 miles (one day) into my comparo of the Q2 vs the PP/PR2 combo. I ran the Dragon 4 times yesterday and straffed 28 and the Cherohala for some more controlled testing (It's a crap job but someone has to do it;). I put the Michelin combo on the Girl's Versys and she is in love and it really improved the Kawi. When she is done with those I will put the Q2s on her bike so I will have two bikes worth of data to compare back-to-back. The Cycle Hill changer stays busy! I give the Q2s 5 weeks on the VFR (about 1600 miles a month) while the Girl's Michelins will probably go 4 months. She is a little easier on tires but she is by no means slow.

One of the traits of the Q2s and the PP/PR2 is they really seem to compliment the suspension. They really improve the ride, both in terms of suppleness and suspension control. That is really about all they have in common as the Q2s have superior mechanical grip and shorter shoulders which means I have to live with chicken strips. The Michelin PR2 goes right to the edge on my VFR. I drag the pegs frequently with the Q2s and still have 1/4" or better strips while with the PR2 on the rear I go right to the edge and there is no strip even after a medium pace ride. Doesn't really mean much as I am sure the Michelin has a similar contact patch but I can feel the Michelins squirm when pushed where I never feel anything but G's with the Q2s.

Switchblade has the Pilot Pures on his VFR and he gets up and down the Dragon pretty good so I suspect we will hook and see where the Q2s compare to those. I followed him on some worn 023s last summer and i was moving around a lot while he was on rails. I suspect the Q2s will be more controlled.

I used to care what tires cost but I have reached a point where I just don't have to care about anything but the experience. SInce I get to ride some of the best roads in the world virtually anytime I please i figure one way to give something back to humanity is to pass on tire performance data. Tires are a subjective topic and there is no one tire for everyone. If you like what you use and you feel comfortable paying what they cost then you win, it's that simple.

It should take me about three months to complete my Michelin/Dunlop comparison if the weather holds out. After that the winner will take on the next challenger. Rosso Corsas or Pilot Pures maybe?

KEB

[kebrider]

800 mile update. The Q2 rear is almost shot on the sides, pretty near out of tread on the leading edge of the outer grooves on both sides with significant cupping on the trailing edge. Lots of twisties here in East TN. Will be lucky to get 1300 miles. They may be toast tomorrow. A set of tires a month is wretched excess and I have been riding the other bike half the time.

Pilot Road 2's up next, ordering a 2 rear, power front tomorrow night.

KEB

[kebrider]

Here are the Q2's after 1730 miles (rear) and 2670 miles (front) and one day at TMAC:

The front actually had some life left at the edge and the middle but the sides are treadless. The rear looks like it has tread on the sides but the leading edged of the tread was to the cord. The tires gripped with absolutely no slip right up to the last turn into the garage. Way better than any Dunlop product I had ever used. These would be my first choice if I was taking the VFR to the track.

I put the Power/Road 2 combo on Thursday night and ran them like they were the Q2s over the foothills and the dragon and I slid the rear on 3 different occasions, one a sloppy downshift going into a corner, and twice gassing it out of tight turns. I suspect the Q2s let me be very sloppy and the Michelins needed some break in.

As the week wore on the Michelins worked great, steered perfect and never gave a hint of grip loss. I suspect I adapted to the tires and they finished wearing in but I am very pleased with their grip. I would say the Q2s have more overall grip but I already have 900+ miles on the Michelins and they look much better than the Dunlops looked at 800 miles.

I like the P/R2 combo and they steer great. Have them on the girl's Versys as well and they work fantastic on that bike. I will probably try the new Bridgestone S20s next just because they are new and I like trying new tires.

[jeremy556]

Here are the Q2's after 1730 miles (rear) and 2670 miles (front) and one day at TMAC:

The front actually had some life left at the edge and the middle but the sides are treadless. The rear looks like it has tread on the sides but the leading edged of the tread was to the cord. The tires gripped with absolutely no slip right up to the last turn into the garage. Way better than any Dunlop product I had ever used. These would be my first choice if I was taking the VFR to the track.

I put the Power/Road 2 combo on Thursday night and ran them like they were the Q2s over the foothills and the dragon and I slid the rear on 3 different occasions, one a sloppy downshift going into a corner, and twice gassing it out of tight turns. I suspect the Q2s let me be very sloppy and the Michelins needed some break in.

As the week wore on the Michelins worked great, steered perfect and never gave a hint of grip loss. I suspect I adapted to the tires and they finished wearing in but I am very pleased with their grip. I would say the Q2s have more overall grip but I already have 900+ miles on the Michelins and they look much better than the Dunlops looked at 800 miles.

I like the P/R2 combo and they steer great. Have them on the girl's Versys as well and they work fantastic on that bike. I will probably try the new Bridgestone S20s next just because they are new and I like trying new tires.

Pilot Powers (original) front and rear. I don't think you can get any better than that on the street, and they are relatively economical these days.

I have never been anything but disappointed with a Dunlop street tire.

[kebrider]

I agree with you Jeremy. With the exception of the wear the Q2s are exponentially superior to anything Dunlop has made before and they have more outright dry grip than a power. I had close to 3K on the Q2 front which is similar to what I would expect out of a power front but unlike a power the tires steered great even with no tread.

You cannot go wrong with a Power though, as good as anyone needs on the street. I had a friend with Powers on his bike who passed me one day and did not notice that a recent rain had watered a high speed turn we were entering. He dragged knee through the turn with no drama so I have seen their wet grip as well. The only niggle I have is the fronts get dicey at the end of their life but that is typical of all tires except the Q2. I may actually try a Q2 front/Road 2 combo someday, I have the time....I think;)

One thing I found with the Michelins is I need to keep their pressures up, 36/42 or their wear increases and the tires take on every shape but round. Minor detail with the IR compressor sitting next to the bikes.

[spud786]

Do your front powers last longer than the front Q2's?

My front powers get great life, but they wear very triangular, more on the side than the center. For this reason Id never run a 2ct Power front.

Edited May 26, 2012 by spud786

[Baileyrock]

Good stuff KEB,

The Q2 is the Only none track Dunlop tire I've liked. Great tire, I just can't afford the wear rate!

I was at the ware bars on the rear at 1600 miles. Now if I lived on the Dragon I might want a little more grip, but I can go as fast as most people want on my PP/PR2 combo w/ No loss of confidence and for at least TWICE the miles of the Q2's. I don't think I've Ever lost grip with the PP/PR2 that wasn't rider or debris caused. I turned 94k miles at this years Tmac and I've run this combo for the last 40,000 miles of twisties and have yet to find a better Grip, Confidence/Life combo set of tires.

BR

[kebrider]

I ran the crap out of the Versys this past weekend and it has the PP/PR2 combo. There is an R1 out there that is probably still wondering where I went on 28. I ran around Suches yesterday with the Versys and had a blast.

There was bout $45,000 worth of Ducatis at the WPG gas station asking a lot of question about the Versys after they waved me by on 60.

Michelin makes a PR3 for adventure bikes now and I just ordered a set for the Tiger 800. Gonna try and make that bike handle as well as the Versys. Right now the Kawi will run circles around it.

KEB

[Baileyrock]

The PR3's are an outstanding Wet tire, but not as planted pushing hard in the dry as the 2's. This from my buddy who I've done over 30k miles of twisties with and went from PR2's to PR3's on a recent 4 day trip we did to that area.

BR

[kebrider]

2,070 miles on the Michelins and they have life in them still with tread showing and grip still felt. I am noticing the usual heavier steering that comes with worn tires though the majority of the wear is at the edges. The rear's leading edge of the side tread is nearing the end and the rear tire looks like a motocross tire as the trailing edge of the tread is cupped severely. All my rear tires cup. The front has decent shape with minimal peaks and valleys and the outer tread is almost to the wear bar. A casual glance and the front looks great but it is definitely worn on the sides while the center tread looks great.

These tire would be done this weekend if I use the VFR but I may delay their demise until next week as I may ride the Tiger or the Versys this weekend. Got some adventure stuff in mind.

So I ordered a set of the Bridgestone S20s last night as I will probably stick to my set of tires a month for the next couple of months. Back to back to back with the Q2, Mich, and S20s should provide excellent data for a real world comparison of sport rubber in the mountains.

So far, if outright dry performance is the criteria then I would take the Q2s due to their superior grip and better turning when worn. The Michelins are a very close performance match with better wet grip (presumed, not actually tested) with superior wear costing about 11 cents/mile while the Q2s cost about 13 cents/mile. Both tires are great. If the Michelins still feel good on their next morning Dragon run then I will rate them even higher.

[Baileyrock]

More great info KEB!

I do notice the front feel go away as the PP/PR2 combo nears the end of their life. You have a Much twister and desirable area to ride than mine and are on the edge more, but I'm not complaining as my area is pretty darn good.

Will be interested in your S20 feedback too!

BR

[johnmark101]

I am a bit fussy about tires, especially on my CBR 600. Nothing I have tried so far performs as well as the Dunlop Q2. The feel and grip they provide is outstanding. Yes......the rear is gone in about 1800 miles, the front lasts about 2600.......so it does get expensive. But I have been getting them for around 220 bucks a set. Absolutely love these tires for spirited riding. Very planted at deep lean angles, good handling charactaristcs and superb grip. The only tire I will use on my CBR......until someone comes up with something better. Currently have a set on the VFR as well. I see a lot of guys using them as track day tires, but for that I usually go with a DOT race tire like the Bridgestone R-10.

I bought a Kawasaki Ninja 1000 which came with Bridgestone BT-016's, and may switch to sport touring tires for that bike since it will be my long haul partner, and will not be ridden quite so agressively.

[kebrider]

Love trying new tires. Biggest two surprises i ever had where the Diablo Corsas when they came out about ten years ago and the Q2s. I normally dislike Dunlops but the Q2s shocked me when I tried them. I remember the first ride on the Q2s not thinking too much of them as they turned in just OK and they had a weird "wiggle" at low speed on rough pavement...then I lit it up on my favorite sport road and could not believe the level of grip and how smooth they were.

Something you don't hear a lot of regarding street tires is how they impact your bike's suspension. Michelins and Pirellis have always been great with my bikes as they have soft carcasses that seem to act as an extension of the suspension. Dunlop used to suck in this area but the Q2 exceeds anything I have ever used. At 36/42 pressures the Dunlops absorb rough pavement without any hint of course deflection or tire deformation. I can feel the Pilots flex in bumpy turns and I have to make minor course corrections. The Q2s just go exactly where you point em every time. Plus they wheelie way better as the rear hooks up perfect, don't even have to tug the bars, just let off then pin it in first gear for a perfect power up...no clutch needed.

I budget for a new set of rubber every month in the riding season and of course I change my own so that reduces cost. I am to the point where I don't trust a tire that has taken 2,000 miles of abuse that my nearly 800 pounds of leaning doles out. I don't use the brakes nearly as much as I use the side of the tires to scrub speed when setting up and finishing a turn, in fact I have over 17K on the front brake pads and they still look OK, so I really do use them up fast.

I just put the Michelins on during TMAC and if I had not ridden another bike for a weekend then I would have already changed them out as they have about one good day left in them. When I hit wear bar they are gone or if they slip a couple of times they are gone. Two of the last three sets of tires I have run have lost their grip even though they had tread left. I had a Bridgestone rep tell me their street tires have more heat cycles in them than we will ever use up but that is BS.

Heading out in the morning for another 400 miles of mountain roads. Was going to take the Tiger but ever since I raised the rear of the VFR I can't get enough. Like having a new bike..

Later

[Duc2V4]

This is really good to hear. On my Duc I have the Q2's and I just put a set of PR2's on the VFR this week. Right now I use the VFR predominantly for commuting with a little play time on the side, so the PR2 combo should be just the ticket. So far they feel really good, a lot different than the SportMax 2's that were on it when I bought the bike.

I have not had a chance to take the Duc on a real "test ride" due to some weird high idle issue I've been trying to iron out but the small rides I've taken seem to prove the Q2's are a good choice.

Cheers

[kebrider]

Great tires all around. On the street the difference in performance is infinitesimally small while the wear rate is at least 25% better with the Michelins and even more if you don't ride too aggressively when commuting.

[kebrider]

The PR2/PP combo is done at 2,463 miles. The rear actually looks OK, wearbars on the side and solid center tread, while the front is roached. The center of the front looks almost new, the tread is that deep, but the sides are worn smooth.

Both tires no longer have any grip even when hot as if the tires had one too many heat cycles. Felt like someone oiled my tires. Kinda fun drifting through the sweepers on the foothills but I missed the original grip. The bike developed some steering "features" as the tires passed 2000 miles.

Put on the S20s tonight.

KEB

[CornerCarver]

Then I will be checking for the update after this weekend on the S20s. Read good things about them.

[Guest]

Seeing that you live in Knoxvegas, I am sure you see the same issues I do with dual compounds tires.

When I run a 2CT after 1K miles the sides are gone and I still have the new tire nubs in the center.

That is why I always stick to the original Pilot Powers.

They wear evenly and I can usually get close to 2500 miles out of a set.

[kebrider]

Seeing that you live in Knoxvegas, I am sure you see the same issues I do with dual compounds tires.

When I run a 2CT after 1K miles the sides are gone and I still have the new tire nubs in the center.

That is why I always stick to the original Pilot Powers.

They wear evenly and I can usually get close to 2500 miles out of a set.

I should get a picture of the Power front up later tonight. It looks like a typical dual compound with easily half of its center tread left. The last 4 front tires have all worn the sides first (this area does that) but the only tire that stayed grippy the entire life was the Dunlop Q2s. The Michelins I took off last night feel like plastic just like the Bridgestones do after about 1,800 to 2,000 miles.

It's fun to try a new tire but the "old" Pilot Power is a great street tire with excellent grip and wear. The PR2 rear is impressive but if the front wears first I would lean to just running powers on both ends because I change both at the same time any more.

KEB

[johnmark101]

Said it before and will say it again.......for outright performance the Q2 is easily my favorite tire. They don't last very long, but none of the performance tires do.

I am switching to Road 2's on my Ninja 1000 because I don't plan on riding that bike too aggressively. Might do the same on my VFR. I expect the road 2's will be an excellent tire that wuill provide near sport tire grip levels and better longevity, plus very good wet performance. But my CBR 600, which I ride pretty hard in the twisties will always get the Q2. They keep their profile as they wear, never cup or wear unevenly, and provide superior grip to the end.

For anyone who wants the best outright street performance tire I say you have to try a set and see for yourself.

[kebrider]

Said it before and will say it again.......for outright performance the Q2 is easily my favorite tire. They don't last very long, but none of the performance tires do.

I am switching to Road 2's on my Ninja 1000 because I don't plan on riding that bike too aggressively. Might do the same on my VFR. I expect the road 2's will be an excellent tire that wuill provide near sport tire grip levels and better longevity, plus very good wet performance. But my CBR 600, which I ride pretty hard in the twisties will always get the Q2. They keep their profile as they wear, never cup or wear unevenly, and provide superior grip to the end.

For anyone who wants the best outright street performance tire I say you have to try a set and see for yourself.

Straight up have to agree. Not the value represented by the Michelin's durability but if you value outright performance the Q2 could be the best value out there.

[ninjadoc]

How is the s20 holding up?

[wera803]

How is the s20 holding up?

His review as of 3 days ago..........

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/71976-s20-tire-review-700-miles/

[ninjadoc]

dang :( i thought i saw that in another forum, problem on being on too many

[PACIFICMAN]

I had a set of brand new Q1's on my "02 when I got it. I liked them very much. I then used Michelin PP's, PP 2ct's and some mixed track day "race" take offs. I preferred the Dunlop to the Michelin in feel. Wear wise I find them similar. After reading this it seems the Q2's wear more quickly than Q1's, correct? I am about to replace my tires and I leaning towards Q1's. I commute and track the bike, but I am not a real Hot Shoe rider.