Member Contributer 2thdr Posted October 16, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted October 16, 2012 Nobody was answering my question on another thread, so I will ask it here, since there is so much passion about a similar subject. Was I stupid to use medium thread locker on my brake pad PIN fastener? Thanks to anyone that answers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer FJ12Ryder Posted October 16, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted October 16, 2012 I wouldn't say stupid, as long as you didn't get it anywhere except on the threads. Mostly unnecessary IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 You might have troubles getting that brake pad pin out next time....... I never locktite those ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MBrane Posted October 18, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted October 18, 2012 Right. Maybe someone can answer some questions for me... 1. Why does Honda specify visually very different fasteners when the "only difference" is that the ALOC ones come with factory thread-lock applied and the others don't? Have you looked at OEM ALOC fasteners and other OEM fasteners of the same size and compared them? Shouldn't they be the same fastener, just one with locking agent and the other not? 2. Are the ALOC fasteners the ONLY ones on the bike that are supposed to have threadlock on them? If not, why aren't the caliper fasteners just locktited upon assembly, like all the others? (A corollary: if the reason is "liability concerns", liability for what, exactly? What are these incessantly wheedling lawyers trying to accomplish--to sell more fasteners?) 3. Why do the ALOC fasteners have significantly higher torque values than regular OEM fasteners of the same size? Wouldn't the presence of threadlock REDUCE the suggested torque value, rather than increase it? I'm especially interested in the answer to the last one, because the only thing I can think of is that ALOC fasteners are designed to stretch significantly upon installation. I can see someone replacing the ALOC fasteners with stronger ones (a la canuck), but re-torquing already-stretched ALOC fasteners to the same (relatively high) torque value specified for new ones (and adding thread lubrication to boot!) doesn't seem like a good long-term strategy to me. [A previous thread for reference: VFRD, last year] Having just done a little Googling for other threads (!) on other boards on this topic I am astounded at the level of confidence expressed by some people about the "meaning of ALOC". It appears to be almost inverse to their actual knowledge on the subject. Obviously, "Add Loctite Or Crash" isn't a serious explanation, but how can they be so sure that ALOC means "a fastener with threadlock already applied", without any objective evidence whatsoever that that is actually the case? (I mean, apart from dozens of expert Netizens saying exactly the same thing.) Their reasoning appears to be the result of observing two things: #1, Honda has given a special name to these particular fasteners. #2, these fasteners all seem to have some sort of threadlock on them. The conclusion then drawn is that ALOC = threadlock. Hmmm. Is that really the only possible conclusion? Usual disclaimer: I'm not saying that ALOC fasteners will always fail if re-used. I know they don't, because I, like nearly everyone else in the world, have re-used them many times. Not only that, in my experience, even Honda dealers do not keep them in stock for every tire change for every bike they work on (I've tried to buy them), and last time I checked, brake calipers were not popping off bikes left and right. However, that is not the same thing as repeating over and over an explanation that is, at best, unproven and unsupported with actual knowledge and, at worst, completely false. Ciao, You're making this more complicated than it needs to be. Yes you can re-use the stock fasteners if you first check the fasteners for stretching, and if none remove all traces of the factory thread locker + add a dab of medium strength thread locker on assembly. You can probably even re-use slightly stretched fasteners many times before they actually fail, but why risk your bike/life for the price of a simple bolt when all one needs to do is some simple measuring? The stock bolts are only $8 for the set. No reason to be penny-wise, and pound-foolish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 No reason to be penny foolish either. If many other people have been reusing bolts numerous times and for 20, 40, 60,000 miles without issue, why the hell would I spend money on new bolts??? Obviously it's not a problem?? Take what you want from the internet - it's worth what you paid for it but I myself will not be buying a new caliper bolt unless I lose one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted October 20, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted October 20, 2012 Anything added to the threads of a fastener is going to have an effect on your torque reading whether locker, anti-seize compound, or plain old oil. If you're re-using the stock bolts with the factory thread lock removed (which is not easy to do!) a bit of blue Loctite certainly won't hurt, and it's lubricating properties would mean you'd need to up the torque slightly over standard to compensate for the lubricated threads. The now-merged thread has made my original comment to MBrane's February 2012 post a bit out of place. Anyway, this is backwards--you need to decrease the torque setting to compensate for lubricated threads. The problem is, there is no fool-proof formula to tell you how much to decrease the torque setting. I've heard 25%; I've heard 50%. And sure, if you can accurately measure the actual stretch on your caliper bolts, you can monitor the situation that way, rather than by pre-emptively replacing perfectly good bolts. However, you first would need to have measured the new ones to know how much they have stretched when you measure them later. Again, I'm not saying you're all going to die horrible deaths if you don't follow the Honda Workshop Manual's instruction to always use new ALOC fasteners... Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted October 20, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted October 20, 2012 Was I stupid to use medium thread locker on my brake pad PIN fastener? Well, I'll just say that I hope you can get them out again! You generally apply anti-seize to those M10x1.0 retaining pin threads, as they have a tendency to get stuck, rather than fall out... Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rice Posted October 22, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted October 22, 2012 No reason to be penny foolish either. If many other people have been reusing bolts numerous times and for 20, 40, 60,000 miles without issue, why the hell would I spend money on new bolts??? Obviously it's not a problem?? Take what you want from the internet - it's worth what you paid for it but I myself will not be buying a new caliper bolt unless I lose one! My thinking exactly. It comes down to the level of personal comfort and personally, I am quite comfortable with simply putting the original bolts back, as long as there is some locking compound left on them from the factory. If not, I'll add some and reuse the bolts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2thdr Posted October 22, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted October 22, 2012 Was I stupid to use medium thread locker on my brake pad PIN fastener? Well, I'll just say that I hope you can get them out again! You generally apply anti-seize to those M10x1.0 retaining pin threads, as they have a tendency to get stuck, rather than fall out... Ciao, This is what happens when a dentist starts doing his own motorcycle maintenance... Guess I'll take them out and clean off the blue stuff, put some anti-sieze on...thanks for the advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer VFR Capt.Bob Posted October 22, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted October 22, 2012 I've never replaced mine. I replaced the brake pad mounting bars once because they were too notched looking. 86,500 miles on the odometer. Maybe I'll replace them next time just to be safe since someone mentioned they are cheap. It's probably not the torque, as it is light, that compromises them but the heat generated coupled with the constant shear pressure applied under severe braking. I think under track or racing conditions I would replace them much more frequently. Normal street riding not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I get it , beating a dead horse, I was checking to see if this thread would ever end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenshenrik Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Just got back from a ride without Loctite on my used caliper bolts and new tires. I didn't die. Damn, the VFR is fun to ride! \m/ \m/ It's been a while now... Are you still alive? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2thdr Posted February 11, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted February 11, 2013 Don't need any advice on replacing/not replacing brake caliper fasteners, but does anyone have handy the part numbers for a 6th gen to replace the four brake caliper ALOC fasteners? These are what I came up with: 1 ea - 90132-MZ2-000 BOLT, SOCKET (8X45) for left side 1 ea - 90133-MAT-000 BOLT (8X32) for left side 2 ea - 90107-MT3-003 BOLT, FLANGE (8X32) for right side (unsure of these...couldn't tell if same size bolt for both) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thx113 Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 At least you can argue about the option. I took the rear disk off my 84 VF1000RE and discovered a PO had destroyed the threads on all 6 bolts and glued the bolts back in. I don't think using new or used bolts will make much difference to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer FJ12Ryder Posted February 14, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted February 14, 2013 Wow!! That is seriously insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thx113 Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Wow!! That is seriously insane. At least I barely rode it before pulling it down. Reason for not riding was huge fuel leak and no working front or rear brakes. The PO rode it to my house and really scrubbed in the new tyres (maybe because he could not slow down in corners?). Just finished rebuilding the rear end on that particular bike, new hagon shock and everything returned to factory spec (including replacement rear wheel and rotor). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenshenrik Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Take a look at this page: http://www.qldcorvetteclub.com.au/tech/tech_talk/bolts.htm It's pretty informative :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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