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Front end conversion - was yours worth it ??


Renevator

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BR / zRoyz, You both mention being able to use the stock VFR wheel/rotor combo with the F4i forks and zRoys you are using the F4i caliper/master cylinder with that combo. Does that mean that the VFR calipers will not work with the F4i forks? I found a few sets of '02 F4 front ends for sale and thought I might look into this mod, but I would prefer to keep the stock brakes on my '09 w/linked braking intact. (I pressume they need to be F4i, not plain F4?)
You can't keep the link brakes with F4i forks because the LHS 6th gen caliper mount has the link brake mastercylinder for rear brake & the mount on that fork leg for that system is completely different, you can't really use the 6th gen lower with the F4i because of the compression adjustment adjuster is on the lower F4i fork leg & the reason to upgrade the 6th gen forks with F4i is to gain remote rebound/compression adjustment they have & the 6th gen doesn't. To keep the link brakes & improve the standard forks there are kits aval to add rebound remote adjustment but honestly if you get your 6th gen forks valving & sring rate set up well the only real worth while upgrade is USD forks. Bellow is my 6th gen with CBR1000RR forks, I have sice installed my Ohlins CBR1000RR forks because the 25mm valving they have suits it better than the 30mm Ohlins cartridge kit in the forks in picture (the forks in picture are now installed on my CBR1000RR as the 30mm cartridges suit that bike better). The difference they make with handling & braking is like drinking your fav beer ice cold to the standard forks drinking it boiling hot. These are Ohlins forks on my CBR that are now on above & above now on CBR, the reason for swap is the 30mm valving is for heavy braking & high front end loading, the VFR doesn't load the front end anywhere near as much as a sportbike. post-2353-0-36060000-1327413279.jpg
show off....I want your Ohlins......

*Renevator*....Where are you located at? I have locations on two R1 front ends as I am not going that direction and staying with the f4i fe. The front ends are complete and pretty reasonable. One is nicer than the other, but more $$

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If you've made a change, would you be so kind as to tell me what the change was, and how you feel about the results. I'm hoping to be able to do a simple conversion...

Hi to all.

For what can worth my experience, in these days i'm in progress with the substitution of my 1998 VFR 800 front fork with parts coming from a 1995 CBR 600.

Is a simple work why is possible the tubes substitution only, maintaining the original VFR external case, that means no CBS brake system modification.

With just same kind of work required for the fork seals substitution, installing the CBR tubes you will have the useful compression setting on the fork taps and a longer spring setting.

The mod will be completed by a linear spring rate kit instead the progressive OEM equipment.

All parts dimensions are parfectly the same except for the tubes lenght (CBR's are bit longer than VFR's), but this just means a different ledge from the upper triple.

This is an entry-level conversion kind; obviously a front end swap with an upside-down fork can be much performing, but much more expensive, because if your idea is an USD fork, is better to choose a full setting model and not a simple "inverted" fork with no possibilities of settings.

Ciao, Luigi.

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*Renevator*....Where are you located at? I have locations on two R1 front ends as I am not going that direction and staying with the f4i fe. The front ends are complete and pretty reasonable. One is nicer than the other, but more $$

I'm in the UK, but it's vaguely possible I could get stuff sent over from the US by a work connection. Not quite ready yet, as I've only just started thinking about this whole front end revamp, but always willing to hear of a bargain. Cheers.

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  • 4 weeks later...
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O, I'm a bit more informed now, having read various "Frankenviffer" threads - there are some amazing conversions out there, and some of you guys sure do know your stuff. I'm still very tempted to do a USD conversion, and from what I can tell the R1 (Prob 1998/2000 model) forks are only about 5mm shorter that the stock VFR750FR forks, so shouldn't give me loads of problems by changing the way the bike sits, well, no more than the easiest of USD set ups would anyway. I'm going to need to sort out the Triple Tree, wheels, rotors, calipers etc, but one thing I wanted to check with those that have such a conversion (Parker, your opinions would be very much appreciated), is have you sacrificed road riding ability in any way. I've read on some conversions that folk reckon they've lost a fair bit of turning circle (obviously this depends on what config they've used) and they have also noticed a slower turning rate, which I find a bit confusing as I'd expect the use of slightly shorter forks, thereby making the steering angle smoewhat sharper, to have made the bike turn quicker ??

I'm not looking at geting a track set up here, and in saying that I guess it makes it obvious that I'm only really looking at a USD set up as a bit of a vanity project, as a properly sorted F4i conversion would probably do all I need and can justify. What I want to acheive (as well as enjoying the process of personalising my VFR of course) is a more compliant, taughter front end without loosing any of the wonderful VFR ride quality. I'm teaming the front up with my Maxton shock, so the rear is sorted. If I forget the USD appeal, I could just get some VTR1000 forks, and CBR600/900 calipers, and get the forks rebuilt by Maxton to my weight etc, but I'd be looking at the best part of £800, so I'm trying to see if a USD set up will be acheivable for less. I've asked, but the work Maxton did on my std VFR forks isn't transferable to the VTR forks, which is a shame. What I don't want to do is end up with a worse handling bike than the one I've got of course, and I know for sure going the VTR/Maxton intenals route would guarantee me the right results, but that ol' USD bling factor is very appealing, and if I get it sorted I can always improve it some more with Maxton internals at a later date, whan money allows.

Any feedback you coud give me on, er feedback (pardon the pun), would be much appreciated. I'm no 'zRoyZ' rider, but I can still appreciate what a great bike he's created for someone with the right skill, and as I said I'm not looking for a track tool, just an improved road tool that takes nothing away from the VFR ease, either in instabilty, turning abilty or ride comfort etc. If a USD conversion gives me a much better sport/track tool that's a bit of a pain in everyday, easy town riding, I guess I'd be wiser to stick to the std fork config mod. I know it's all subjective, but any comments would help.

Cheers

Rene

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Renevator my thoughts on your last post.

I'm of the opinion good suspension isn't just for track days or fast riders (corner monkeys) but for everyone, yes in this day & age money is tight & allot of riders use there bikes only as a toy & those that are married have to justify the outlay just to have a bike in the garage. But frankly that is the wrong attitude, your far better off buying a cheaper bike so you have the funds to have the suspension modified to suit YOU. In the wash up your going to be far safer, your confidence/skills will grow without you even knowing & in the end when the need arises you will be a faster rider with a higher margin of safety than if you own a bike with much more hp that cost allot more money.

Parker made a comment about the R1 setup change to his 4th gen "I gain more time & use the brakes less" now his skill level didn't just change over night, what did change was the suspension on his bike nothing else. He is using the brakes less which means his corner entry has increase, yet if he needs to use the brakes harder like before suspension upgrade now he will stop quicker. That alone means one thing a higher level of safety, larger margin for error. I mean lets be honest we all make mistakes sometimes, some of those mistakes cause damage & pain, if you can increase the chance of recovery from said mistakes that has to be worth it's weight in gold.

You will always have the money factor involved so really people should modify there suspension for the best possible outcome within there budget because any upgrade is better than none. I note in your post some have said they lost this & that, well concentrating on USD conversions the only thing you lose is some turning cycle which only effects U turns, big deal how often do we do U turns in tight places & if you do just prepare like stop back your bike at an angle, then proceed forward to complete the U turn. Turn in etc is all part of set up like bike geometry, tyre profile, spring rate & valving, if people aren't happy then you need to address these factors. There are to many that do a fork conversion but forget the forks there using weren't designed for the bike there riding so you need to have valving/spring rate set up to suit the bike. More so with sportsbike forks on the vfr as I have mentioned the vfr doesn't load the front end anything like the forces a sportsbike does so to adapt to use with vfr you need modifications & not doing so is like baking a cake & not putting icing on it.

If my budget only allowed a purpose built aftermarket rear shock but meant I had to keep the standard forks with the correct spring rate & valving to match then that would be what I would do, but with the standard forks I would be changing out the fork oil every 5000kms to help keep response at the best level possible. The oil does contaminate quickly with the standard forks, I have pulled them apart at 2000kms & the oil was more contaminated than my R1 forks at 10000kms.

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Renevator my thoughts on your last post.

I'm of the opinion good suspension isn't just for track days or fast riders (corner monkeys) but for everyone, yes in this day & age money is tight & allot of riders use there bikes only as a toy & those that are married have to justify the outlay just to have a bike in the garage. But frankly that is the wrong attitude, your far better off buying a cheaper bike so you have the funds to have the suspension modified to suit YOU. In the wash up your going to be far safer, your confidence/skills will grow without you even knowing & in the end when the need arises you will be a faster rider with a higher margin of safety than if you own a bike with much more hp that cost allot more money.

Agreed!!!!!!!!!! :smile:

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I know somewhere Seb has a picture with a bunch of different forks standing next to each other for a fork height comparison. IIRC, there were two different R1 forks (06 & 00), a CBR fork (04) and maybe a VFR fork. Will go look it up somewhere.

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I know somewhere Seb has a picture with a bunch of different forks standing next to each other for a fork height comparison. IIRC, there were two different R1 forks (06 & 00), a CBR fork (04) and maybe a VFR fork. Will go look it up somewhere.

What what

forklineup.jpg

00-01 R1... 05 R1...06-07 CBR1kRR... 04-05 CBR1kRR "Nohlins Edition"

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Seb & Yoshi - many thanks for that, v helpfull.

zRoYz - apologies for not responding to your post earlier - seem to have had a very interrupted week.

Well, you've hot the nail right on the head there. The reason I've decided to spend the effort & time in a front end and rest of the bike rebuild on the VFR, is as a result of being honest with myself about the bike, and me. As we all do, I've hankered after a change in bike for a while, but I had to recognise my delusions of wealth, and admit I wasn't going to be in a position of affording anything much better than the VFR for quite some time. Of course, I could sell it ann add a little more cash to whatever I got for it, to buy something else, but I'd still only be looking at a £2000-£2500 bike, and for my money there's nothing better than my current VFR for that sort of cash. I've realised I'd need to spend at least £4000 to get anything significantly better, and even then, I'm not so sure. So after much deliberation, and as I said, a reasonably large dose of honesty with myself, I realised I still had a bike that was capable of offering me everything I could expect from a bike, well, at least with my current abilities anyway. So I thought, why not just spend that extra £1000 on the VFR, and make it something very personal and completely suited to me. It's been something of a cathartic decision to take my bike off the road. I probably shouldn't mention it on such a hallowed VFR forum, for fear of being ostracised, but over the last year or so I've utterly abused my bike, in so much as I've done sweet f.a to it, but still expected it to get me to work & back everyday - through all weathers and seasons. It's a honda, so it did just that. Jesus these bikes are well put together. I can blame circumstances, life, work family obligations etc, but in the end it was entirely down to me that my beautifull VFR was beginning to show it's age, but thank god I finally came to my senses and realised I needed to address my lack of commitment. Hense the question at the beginning of this post, and the very interesting & exciting journey I'm now on in my quest to rebuild this bike into my very personal VFR. Which is more than I can say for the next 12 months I'm likely to spend commuting by bus & car (though I should thank my lovely wife for allowing me to use her car :-))

Of course I'm not going to be doing anything original - reading about the many wonderful Frankenviffers here prioves that - but I'm aiming to make the bike mine, and sod the residuals, if you know what I mean.

So, back to the suspension - sorry, got carried away there.

I understand your point entirely about Parker and his confidence change in having the R1 front end you built. It's an odd thing isn't it, that when your confidence increases, along with your skill, you can do so much more with so much less. I think that applies to all manner of disciplines. How many notes did Count Basie leave out, and how wonderful did it sound :musik20:

Yes, I have made mistakes on the road, mostly when I've been riding out of my skill level, though I do try to be aware of what I'm doing as much as I can, so I can also see your point that having the best set up possible to correct those errors is the wisest route.

I'm sure the f4i conversion would probably serve my skill level, but if the rebuild plan goes, er, to plan, I'm likely to end up with a bike that's a keeper for quite a few years, so I reckon going that extra mile in doing a USD conversion will be money well spent. It seems now that with a well thought out conversion I'd be trading off very litle and gaining so much, so thansk forall your advice. With a fair bit of study I'm pretty sure I can do the spannering, but I'm going to need the expertise of an expert to revalve any USD forks I fit, both to the VFR & my requirements, and I've got a couple of good options over here in the UK to get that done. I have however just ordered Andrew Trevitt's suspension tuning book (can't remember the guy who recommended it here, but thank you whoever you were) in an effort to educate myself better on all aspect of this weird suspension science, and along with the help of guys like yourself on this terrific forum, I'm hoping I'll end up with a nicely sorted VFR. Incidentally, in the initial quote I had form one suspension expert, he told me that R1 forks are more costly to service than Showas, as fitted to Aprilia's and Fireblades. I did wonder if I could make some Aprilia Showas work, but they are an odd size in relation to Triple Tree possibilities, so not so east to make fit, and maybe that's reflected in the fact that they seem to be a bit cheaper as used ebay items, than say CBR1000 or R1 forks. Anyway, I've got my eyes peeled on a few other forums for some choice unwanted USD fornt ends, so fingers crossed I get something sorted before the end of summer - got a fair bit elase to do, including a nice paint job, if I can teach myself to spray as well...doh! little ambitious, but what the hell :-)

Cheers

Rene

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Did this Suzuki TL1000R Front end on the wife's Gen 3.

DSCN0512.jpg

Is better in the corners than stock the best I can tell. The biggest plus was in the breaking.

That bike is gorgeous! :ohmy:

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RC51 forks on a 1999 VFR800. No, I would not switch back.

The longer trail due to the RC51 triples different offset makes the bike steer slower (all else being equal) but on my bike, the front end is slightly lower than stock, and the rear end, I raised up, plus the handlebars are wider for more leverage, so it pretty much cancels that effect right out.

The brakes are absolutely stupid, and the ride quality and adjustability are far better than the standard VFR boingers. I added an Ohlins rear shock, courtesy of a VFRd member, and the transformation is complete.

I did the same conversion and +1 to Veefer's comments. Offset of the new triples should not be disregarded as it is going to have the single biggest impact on trail which determines turn in. Lowering the front and raising the rear gives a different effective steering angle which can mostly offset the increased trail. I'm happy enough with the conversion and would do it again for the reasons Veefer stated. Good luck!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Did anybody did the front end conversion on an ABS VFR? Preserving the ABS is what's keeping me from atempting the upgrade. From what i've seen on this topic all the modified bikes were non ABS. CBS can be dropped ... I guess, but I'm not willing to do the same for ABS which saved my butt several times.

Thanks!

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The best front end solution for me would still be something a person could just plug-and-play, instead of all the fiddling and fabricating around with different triple clamps, figuring out new steering stops, axle spacers...etc..etc..etc......Unless I end up retiring early with a lot of money won from a big lottery and a fantastic garage to work in filled with all the tools I dreamed of....it's just not gonna happen with my 4th gen....If I do come across lots of money and time on my hands soon, I will most likely just buy myself an RC45 or a Desmosedici instead.....!

Beck

95 VFR

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Did anybody did the front end conversion on an ABS VFR? Preserving the ABS is what's keeping me from atempting the upgrade. From what i've seen on this topic all the modified bikes were non ABS. CBS can be dropped ... I guess, but I'm not willing to do the same for ABS which saved my butt several times.

Thanks!

You'll note that more than just the forks are involved with these swaps.

ABS cannot be preserved for the same reason as the requirement to get rid of the linked braking setup: the new forks do not have the proper mounting bosses or proper wheel offset to retain the original brake calipers. Those calipers are needed for both linked brakes and ABS.

Given that the new forks are generally from a bike with better brakes, the trade-off between better brakes and linked/ABS brakes is usually considered part of the advantage.

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Just for the record my riding style is fast into a corner less throttle out due to lean angle so I need to trust the front end, it's not always the fastest way around a corner but it's what I enjoy the most.

Wow, totally the opposite to how I ride, which is slow in fast out. I've always felt more comfortable doing that. Doesn't mean I'm right or fast though!

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Just for the record my riding style is fast into a corner less throttle out due to lean angle so I need to trust the front end, it's not always the fastest way around a corner but it's what I enjoy the most.

Wow, totally the opposite to how I ride, which is slow in fast out. I've always felt more comfortable doing that. Doesn't mean I'm right or fast though!

Your way is the safest way for riding on the road, the only draw back is you tend to wear out rear tyres faster using power to fling the bike round the apex & out of the corner. I picked up the habit from track riding to go into a corner fairly hot so you have allot more lean angle so you can't use as much throttle at the apex due to smaller tyre patch on the road, so you have to wait longer to apply max throttle out of the corner when bike is more upright. I don't know why but a get a buzz when the foot pegs on the VFR scrap but tend to use my boot toe slider as the gauge so I don't keep wearing out pegs. I have cut my leg a few times working on the bike walking around it when the pegs grind on the edge & become sharp. What I like most about the VFR is the stability & there is so much grip with modern tyres on there side walls you can scrap out a VFR so easy, but you do have to be careful because it is so easy that you don't go to far & hit something with no give & lose rear wheel traction. Was following friend that just went to far & his bike spun on the center stand like a top while he was sliding across the road.

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Did anybody did the front end conversion on an ABS VFR? Preserving the ABS is what's keeping me from atempting the upgrade. From what i've seen on this topic all the modified bikes were non ABS. CBS can be dropped ... I guess, but I'm not willing to do the same for ABS which saved my butt several times.

Thanks!

You'll note that more than just the forks are involved with these swaps.

ABS cannot be preserved for the same reason as the requirement to get rid of the linked braking setup: the new forks do not have the proper mounting bosses or proper wheel offset to retain the original brake calipers. Those calipers are needed for both linked brakes and ABS.

Given that the new forks are generally from a bike with better brakes, the trade-off between better brakes and linked/ABS brakes is usually considered part of the advantage.

Thanks for info. I can't complain much about brakes - I can use better pads if I'll need. My concern was, by changing suspension forks, to keep the ABS. Since I'll upgrade the rear I was thinking to do the same with the front ... bad luck :unsure:

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  • 4 weeks later...

I'm a bit late replying to this, but ...

VFR fork tubes will fit into Firestorm sliders, using the VFR springs and cartridges. So for a low cost upgrade, Firestorm sliders, front wheel spindle and mudguard, VFR fork tubes with your Maxton internals, 4 pot Nissin calipers from a Firestorm, Fireblade or CBR6 and a suitable master cylinder.

I got my Firestorm forks cheap because they were bent, and I already had a 14mm master cylinder (off a Speed Triple iirc), so my conversion came in at about £75

IMG_2805.jpg

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I had my standard forks upgraded by HK in Holland. Using CBR600F4 innards, one fork tube handles the compression, the other rebound. The springs are Eibach (I think) and valving was done by HK based on my weight, my riding style and types of roads we have here in Turkey. I removed my forks and sent them to my buddy in Holland, who took them to HK so the exact details like spring rate, oil weight etc escape me which I'm terribly embarrassed to say. Here are the pictures:

Guess who made them :-)

I got me some fancy adjusters (compression on the left, rebound on the right)

I'd love to get upsidedownies and upgrade the brakes as well, but I don't want to loose the ABS like Ciprinakos. The roads in Turkey are slippery (lots of dust owing to ongoing constructions as well as low qualtiy asphalt) so I want the safety net of ABS. But then I also installed a Torocharger to my bike so I'm not the most coherent thinking man in VFRD.

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Druid & Arrow

Thanks for the input - not too late as I've not even started on the bike rebuild yet - been organising our garden, rebulding shed, preparing to install a summerhouse so my wife has an art studio to balance the enormous amnount of time I will spend in the garage doing this VFR refurb :tour: .

I've had some interesting input from variosu sources, and have narrowed it all down to the following forks: R1 (00-01), Fireblade 929/954, CBR600F4i, or Aprilia Falco Showa's, which would mean getting an engineer to make me a spindle to combine the Honda & Aprilia Triple Tree, frame interface difference. Yeah, not so narrow, I know. I will probably be swayed by the combination that gives me the closest trail to std (rake of course being fixed). I've not done all the calculations yet, but hope to soon. Mind you, I did have a suggestion to just keep the Maxton adjusted std forks, make a bracket to take some CBR900 calipers and spend the dosh on some lightweight wheels :ohmy: - now that's just annoying, as it makes sense, and now I want it all :laugh:

Thanks againg all for your comments - i'm learning day by day.

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