Member Contributer Oh6PearlVFR Posted October 30, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted October 30, 2011 Well - looks like my electrical woes will continue. So - I installed a VFRness two weeks ago and that seemed to help but to be sure I installed a Ricks R/R last week. I've only rode the bike to the shop and back since and yesterday brought it home with my new tires on it. Took it out today and 15 miles into the trip I lost power riding down the road. The speedo and all dash lights went out except the clock. My throttle choked and then died out completely. Got it to the side of the road and my volt meter read 10, 9, 8, 7, 6 when I turned the key on. I borrowed a set of jumpers and got it jumped off a buddy. Cranked right up, took off the cables and about 30 seconds later (volt meter at 10) I got a huge pop, bike shut down, and then a bunch of smoke from underneath the tank. Smoke got bad enough that I thought the bike was on fire and almost called the fire dept, but it died out after about 10-15 seconds. I towed it back to the house and pulled off the plastics expecting my new VFRness and everything to be smoked but it all looks great. If I didn't know any better I wouldn't have guessed anything was wrong with it at all. SO, any ideas on where to start on this? New battery, new VFRness, new R/R - I mean could the stator really cause all those problems if it went bad or was going bad and went? Thanks for any help you can offer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted October 30, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted October 30, 2011 That sounds like a serious short!! The super-low voltages sound like the battery being asked to deliver maximum amps. Only the heavy gauge starter wire from the battery to the starter motor could cause that amount of current to be demanded without a fuse blowing somewhere first. Most likely this cable has eventually melted and that's the source of smoke from under the tank. It's located on the left-hand side of the bike between the frame and the motor. Time to take a look at it as I have a suspicion it has worn down past the insulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted October 31, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted October 31, 2011 Hmm just thinking - this wire is only charged when the starter relay is engaged (duh). That complicates things a bit - the starter relay would need to have failed first for this to happen. Might need to check at the relay first. Easy enough - pull the battery then the starter relay and make sure there are no problems in this area. This is the only circuit that is not fused, and the only one likely to drag a battery down to 6 volts in a hurry, generate craploads of heat and then melt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum CEO HispanicSlammer Posted October 31, 2011 Forum CEO Share Posted October 31, 2011 Sounds like to me a burned up stator phase, if you have a mulitmeter unhook the rr and test the stator wires all three to ground should be NO continuity if there is on any of them the thing is cooked, if thats ok then ohm out each of the yellow wires to the other 2 should be 0.1-1.0 ohms if they are out of range it needs to be replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted October 31, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted October 31, 2011 Sounds like to me a burned up stator phase, if you have a mulitmeter unhook the rr and test the stator wires all three to ground should be NO continuity if there is on any of them the thing is cooked, if thats ok then ohm out each of the yellow wires to the other 2 should be 0.1-1.0 ohms if they are out of range it needs to be replaced. Even with the smoking and popping? It seems really excessive for a stator short since shorting out the stator is what the regulator does when it regulates. I mean, voltage drops and bike cutting out sure, but the smoke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Oh6PearlVFR Posted October 31, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 31, 2011 Kaldek is helping me out on chat so I'm uploading this pic of the starter line where the 30 amp fuse used to be - it's now a 20 amp along side the VFRness cable Obviously melted and you can see bare wire hanging out of the smaller clip into the starter motor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Oh6PearlVFR Posted October 31, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 31, 2011 Here is the starter wire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted October 31, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted October 31, 2011 None of those wires go to the starter motor - that just looks like the Main Fuse B wires melted. Common problem but unlikely to cause sudden drop to 7 volts, especially since you say your voltmeter is connected directly to the battery terminals and activated by a relay. Your VFRness also should be bypassing this problem as it has added an extra path between the regulator and the battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum CEO HispanicSlammer Posted October 31, 2011 Forum CEO Share Posted October 31, 2011 Sorry half asleep, I missed the pop part and only read the part where everything looked good. OH yea that main bus fuse it seems to be a problem with that model. I thought the vfrness bypasses that? So I dont know. Most guys just go and get a heavy gauge fuse and replace that whole assembly, its a pinned topic in the 6th gen forum. The issue with the 6th gen is NOT vtec its the wire harness! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted October 31, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted October 31, 2011 Alright folks looks like it's not the starter, or stator, or regulator. The original main Fuse B line from the regulator to the battery is suspect though - as we've pulled the fuse from that and the bike is running. Oh6Pearl will come along and post more info soon for sure, but it looks like the original Main Fuse B line has fried. I'm not an expert on how electrons like to flow, but if the original wire frayed and shorted to the frame then it's possible that the short was able to pull electrons from both side of the wire - one from its own connection to the battery and the other from the VFRness connection to the battery. It could have been upwards of 60 amps for a second or two, which would seriously cook it but possibly not blow either fuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightwad Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Ouch...that looks nasty. If that wire was indeed bypassing it's fuse and contacting the frame the VFRness was totally out of the circuit and thus it's fuse was intact etc. I would replace that fuse holder with a 12 gauge (or another OEM one) and continue your testing...strange that it would have come into contact with anything...look for burns on hardware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Oh6PearlVFR Posted October 31, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 31, 2011 Okay - so Kaldek is the MAN - thank you so much for walking me through that stuff Stator is testing out fine, starter works and the bike fired up at 13.5 volts. Ran to 14.5 and idles fine After eliminating the original Fuse from line B - everything seems to be working okay. Time will tell. Looks like that charging line could have touched the frame and shorted out the whole system while I was riding - I guess. I really don't know otherwise. Harness looks okay from what I can see and the fuses are all intact, all lights and functions working on the bike. What a weird set of circumstances and I'm glad I was able to keep it upright and get off the road. I will continue testing to see if anything changes and any suggestions are welcomed! Thanks again Kaldek, you are a lifesaver! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightwad Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I am glad everything else checks out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted October 31, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted October 31, 2011 It's moments like these that all the pain I put myself through in my own garage are worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Here is the starter wire This was a common occurrence on the 02-05 VFR's and what mine looked like but bike was still working fine when I replaced this with a Radio Shack 10 ga fuse holder. Don't know if you or someone else did the work, but it's fairly easy to mis-routed a wire will all that replacement of wires/harnesses and have one rub through and ground out on the framework somewhere. Carefully check the routing of all the new pieces. Good luck. BR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Oh6PearlVFR Posted November 1, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 1, 2011 Thanks again for all the tips and info I've talked to my insurance agent and they are having an adjuster meet with a local motorcycle shop to go through the wiring and make sure that there is no further damage done to the wiring harness etc. I am interested to see myself but it does look like the fuse holder line will need to be replaced at a minimum. Cranked the bike again today and rode it around the block a little bit to see if I could smell anything and nothing so far! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Oh6PearlVFR Posted November 1, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 1, 2011 Gremlin or Ground issue I have a major problem houston! Repeated symptoms at 15 minutes of run time. It's going to the shop tomorrow but I'm lost on this one. Why wouldn't a fuse blow or I be getting an F1 error code from the ECU? THIS SUCKS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted November 2, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted November 2, 2011 Gremlin or Ground issue I have a major problem houston! Repeated symptoms at 15 minutes of run time. It's going to the shop tomorrow but I'm lost on this one. Why wouldn't a fuse blow or I be getting an F1 error code from the ECU? THIS SUCKS Heat is building up and causing high resistance somewhere. You getting any more smoke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted November 2, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted November 2, 2011 Alright folks looks like it's not the starter, or stator, or regulator. The original main Fuse B line from the regulator to the battery is suspect though - as we've pulled the fuse from that and the bike is running. Oh6Pearl will come along and post more info soon for sure, but it looks like the original Main Fuse B line has fried. I'm not an expert on how electrons like to flow, but if the original wire frayed and shorted to the frame then it's possible that the short was able to pull electrons from both side of the wire - one from its own connection to the battery and the other from the VFRness connection to the battery. It could have been upwards of 60 amps for a second or two, which would seriously cook it but possibly not blow either fuse. Are we talking whole flow or electron flow. Electronic talk. Looks like a over or under charge, knowing the VFR it could have been BOTH .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Oh6PearlVFR Posted November 2, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 2, 2011 Yes to smoke again - 15 minutes with no problems and then WaPow - smoke coming from under the tank Took the bike apart again - I checked all the grounds etc. I just don't see anything I sent a msg to Tightwad - I need to verify some connections on my VFRness. Although it's plug and play simple enough - for some reason I have one wire that terminates in one harness and doesn't pick up in another. It's possible I got the ness with the two connections backwards? I don't know - I'm reaching on everything - I just don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Oh6PearlVFR Posted November 2, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 2, 2011 So the only other thing I can think of is that I recently installed a Ricks R/R - but that improved and stabalized my voltage. Here is what I was talking about with the VFRness. Two connectors - 1 with 4 male to 5 female and 1 with 5 female and 4 male Do any of you know if this is correct? Aside from that I'm so freakin lost on this! IF it's building up resistance and overheating, why aren't I losing fuses or anything else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer dutchinterceptor Posted November 2, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted November 2, 2011 My '04 had very similar symptoms that were intermittent at first but came back with a vengeance. The first time it was the wiring/connector from the R/R. The second time I witnessed the R/R itself smoking and later realized the wiring had started cooking yet again. I didn't have the VFRarness. Unfortunately, I never tracked down the source of the issue on my bike. Good luck on sorting it out. The electrical wizards here will help ya sort it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightwad Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 I answered your PM but so others can see it... The VFRness fits into the Red/Green wire connection forming a T. Nothing should be unplugged. The stator connection of course is left alone as we are only working on the output side. I am VERY curious where your smoke is coming from...what is burning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted November 2, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted November 2, 2011 Mate you gotta get that tank lifted up and your fairings off so we can trace the smoke! I would also remove the airbox so that I could see down into the V of the motor and confirm if the stator wires are the source of the smoke. This also lets you see the entire wiring harness run from the right-to-left side of the bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightwad Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 To answer another question... The purple wire on the VFRness is to feed the OEM R/R monitor wire input (black/white wire). On the OEM harness some bikes used a switched source for that wire leading to overcharging situations but others use a non-switched source. The VFRness uses a blue wire that taps into the ignition switch to know when the key is on and trigger a relay which feeds the purple wire with battery voltage. With a Rick's R/R the purple wire is no longer doing anything as everything is regulated internally...in these cases the Relay is only used to trigger a fuse panel (or in some cases a single device connected to the purple wire alone). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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