Jump to content

5th gen "coil on plug" setup.


Ranger77

Recommended Posts

  • Member Contributer
18 hours ago, VFROZ said:

And these are the ones.

 

Thank you much! Snagged a decent looking "tested" set on fleabay for $25 shipped. I will be doing this mod as a part of the refresh on my '98. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

So I got the ‘08 CBR coils fitted but had to cut the skirt off the boot to get it all the way in. 

 

I pulled the boot off and placed it over a suitable socket, then ran a Stanley blade over it. 

 

B7B58500-7D83-44A9-9E24-D8EEA0863928.thumb.jpeg.8b58c696d71eb3adb9482ddf776a531e.jpegF676D4D6-76BA-487C-9B67-6AABCB541A11.thumb.jpeg.2bb42e7645b1f49182a02d9e4e4897ca.jpeg

 

You could take a bit more off than I did. About half the skirt is right. 

 

B64027C0-7324-4FD6-9AF3-B2E3616108FF.thumb.jpeg.59e0b8de34964f5e48e11b7a045a9099.jpeg

 

Coil sitting all the way down in the hole...

 

Now time to crimp on the new Denso connectors.

 

EDIT: at first I soldered the crimps in because I didn’t have the correct tool to do it properly. This was less than ideal as sometimes the solder worked its way into the front of the crimp and made it difficult for the coil pins to plug in cleanly, making the connection poor. A local electrician gave me a tutorial on how to install these crimps and helpfully lent me his crimp tool. Big thanks to Brands Hatch performance for their amazing help and human approach. Also, excellent prices on the Denso connectors! 

 

The underlined text text is the wrong way to do this. After that follows the right way in ‭bold italics

 

My crimping plier was too big (the spades are tiny) so I had to do it with long nose pliers instead. I know, a bit ghetto, but it works. 

 

 

 

After long nose pliers crimping. 

 

 

 

The next bit has no photos as I did some soldering ... WITH A BLOWTORCH! Soldering iron didn’t have enough heat to melt the tin or heat crimp. Instead, I put a mini torch on the very edge of the crimp (the end that plugs into the coil) and fed the solder through the crimped end. Heat sucks up the solder through capillary action so very nice bond. Discolours the crimp a bit but no big deal. 

 

This is is what the correct crimp pliers looks like with the crimp in correct jaw. 

 

9B64D43A-42CC-482C-A7B2-9A1ECCB44320.thumb.jpeg.55c7b780730ea326109564d7f9127dad.jpeg

 

9B598675-8FF8-4558-BDBB-4DFCBA3E8A56.thumb.jpeg.a0742871f4fc6881d8e0b5dfdf5d8be2.jpeg

 

BE4D6620-EBAF-4A24-AE1D-6600385739E0.thumb.jpeg.0e16115ddedca205713b6cf85c04024f.jpeg

 

Strip enough insulation away to fold the wire over once. This gives the crimp a bit more to bite on and the loop at the front creates a sort of anchor to keep the wire from slipping out

 

About this much is enough:

 

7B385E0B-2879-47D1-8936-5200E294DE6B.thumb.jpeg.e23616bd57034d813397e387f863d321.jpeg

 

Wire folded over once and rubber grommets threaded on before crimping: 

 

0A9D30B3-A574-43FB-8AB5-3EF33E973DCC.thumb.jpeg.36b32de902f795036361f168ca47effe.jpeg

 

Wire placed in crimp with the folded over loop just hanging over the front a bit to make an anchor:

 

2163E192-AEF7-4450-A0B8-BC3495F52855.thumb.jpeg.da188836ed5df855513370f84a4adb49.jpeg

 

Crimped in the biggest jaw:

 

94E4DD2A-C309-4FD6-8ED4-56C1C41BEE55.thumb.jpeg.b6c3d902324723f94ac2a7f6d3f3a2a5.jpeg

 

Then crimped again in the next one along: 

 

B94AD4BB-4E19-4E9D-A8CF-B136295A2ECA.thumb.jpeg.37ba800c5d1291430741352a67eae13a.jpeg

 

And finally crimped a third time in the smallest jaw: 

 

3E0FC9E5-7A9E-43BE-9373-A69ACC1005CD.thumb.jpeg.a307de9ecc26e8d1cd22b1be25cce409.jpeg

 

It forms two beautiful folds on the wire just like OEM. Now work the rubber grommet between the crimp and wire. 

 

1E6DDADC-1B1C-412A-8AA2-400AB0CCF693.thumb.jpeg.b06c6697e26f88e0b46bfb5f9981c7ff.jpeg

 

Crimp the rubber grommet on using the insulation jaw on the plier. The grommet serves both to waterproof the connection and also to absorb vibration. ‬

 

C60F4737-4060-4F4A-8274-B58F1826C0BF.thumb.jpeg.fcb6a58394215f5bedf038b098e448b3.jpeg

 

Crimp finished and ready to install into connector. It just clicks into place when pushed in. 

 

8BA0C7D8-D981-42D7-8CC6-325272569967.thumb.jpeg.131678f3b76cbc11771a9e3a32424522.jpeg

 

This is is what the waterproof seal looks like when installed. OEM CBR connector is same. 

 

75568034-4FF7-4B0C-BAC0-8C0665CB91CD.thumb.jpeg.51f5b461b8522ae333915bcdb5a19856.jpeg

 

Little squirt of corrosion inhibitor (I like ACF50) on the completed connector and get ready to seal it. 

 

380E6D8A-F831-441E-A862-70376BC05323.thumb.jpeg.781751e3d59b98e6c36320ea45ec6223.jpeg

 

Used silicone self-amalgamating tape to cover exposed parts of connector, crimps and wires. This stuff bonds to itself a bit like insulation tape but is permanent. 

 

353811F2-A57A-448F-A8AA-8E16990D84FC.thumb.jpeg.4752f00ab2b1823fd1343a4b652203f1.jpeg

 

Then, a bit of thin adhesive heat shrink on the crimped end to seal the tape (this needs to be passed over the wire before you assemble the connector), and a larger piece of adhesive heatshrink over the connector itself to fully seal the business end. 

 

0D37EB58-275A-4F2B-8B53-EB63FC479C02.thumb.jpeg.a59696e144043baa1264df321948cdae.jpeg

 

That’s about as waterproof as it can get. You can see the adhesive oozing out at the edges.

 

One point to note: the front coil wires are just about long enough for this mod. Cut the OEM spade crimps off right at the edge as every millimetre of wire is required. Otherwise they put upward pressure on the coil plug and try to lift it out the well. I had to pull a bit more wire out the loom to make it work. 

 

Hope this helps!

 

Stray 

 

Edited by Stray
Wrong crimp process
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...
  • Member Contributer
On 12/12/2017 at 1:13 PM, JZH said:

4800 is what I would call a "long" COP with an external grommet.  Used on GSXR750 (06-07), GSXR600 (01-03), Yamaha XV1600.  Other long COPs with external grommets include: 5100 (also GSXR750 06-07?), 5140 (GSXR750 11-16) and 5230 (GSXR750 08-11).

 

I'm curious how Stray is going to seal his COPs...

 

All of the Honda COPs seem to be internally sealed, which means that the seal depends on the valve cover having a smaller orifice than I believe VFR valve covers have.  All of the externally sealed COPs I've tried on my 3rd gen do not really fit correctly, but VFROZ did mention that some trimming is required.  I've also tried swapping grommets between different COPs, but that wasn't much help.  (FYI, the 3rd gen cannot use the long COPs--it needs shorter ones to clear the radiator, but the only short ones I've found that had external grommets were on the Yamaha R6 ca. 2002.)

 

Ciao,

 

So the 5100s are just as good to use as 4800, or the '08 CBR? I got a set of 5100s donated, and the '08 harness is under $7 on fleabay.:cool:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Kev, I'd have to dig my CoP stash out of it's hiding place to check, but my notes say that the 5100s are long, externally sealed and have a "long grommet--old style".  I don't exactly remember what I meant by that, but my notes also say that the 4800s are the same, but have a "short grommet--old style".  I think that refers to the depth the grommet/seal extends within the spark plug hole, but I don't know off hand if it is significant.  However, the '08 CBR1000RR uses 5150s, which are short, internally sealed and "new style", so I wouldn't consider them the same as the 4800s or 5100s.  I have several different CoPs which I measured, but the rest I verified from photos in eBay listings.  

 

The issue I have with the Honda CoPs is that they all seem to be internally sealed, so the ID of the spark plug hole needs to be the right size, or the grommet won't seal.  The internal seal does not seal on the 3rd gen, but maybe the 5th gen's spark plug holes are smaller?

 

Ciao,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Does any of that relate to how the boot fits over the end of the plug? As in the 5th Gen original HT leads use the threaded tops of the plugs. I sort of think that the 6th Gens require the bit that comes extra in the plug box that threads over the top and is more bulbous.

I just went and stuck the 5100s onto a spare 5th Gen engine with plugs installed and they definitely engage the threads on top of the plugs. I did one without the external seal and one with, and I could hear and feel both COPs engaging the threads. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

This is why I used the GSXR coil packs, they have a boot that fits in and over the VFR rocker cover well. 

If water gets past the boot, it sits in the cam shaft bearing cover bolts an rusts. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer
18 hours ago, KevCarver said:

Does any of that relate to how the boot fits over the end of the plug? As in the 5th Gen original HT leads use the threaded tops of the plugs. I sort of think that the 6th Gens require the bit that comes extra in the plug box that threads over the top and is more bulbous.

I just went and stuck the 5100s onto a spare 5th Gen engine with plugs installed and they definitely engage the threads on top of the plugs. I did one without the external seal and one with, and I could hear and feel both COPs engaging the threads. 

 

No, I'm not talking about the CoP engaging with the spark plug--this works the same as with the OEM spark plug boots.  The CoP certainly needs to engage those threads fully.  I'm talking about what VFROZ is talking about, which is sealing the top of the valve cover so that water doesn't get in and cause mischief down by the spark plug (or get into the engine when said spark plugs are removed).

 

Ciao,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, KevCarver said:

Seb, did you have to trim the boot like Stray did (above)?

 

I didn't trim anything. I pushed them in very firnly, felt & heard the plug thread engage. Felt the grommet at the top engaging the bore at the top too. They do not wiggle or move at all. It takes some good effort to pull them out, and when you do, you can feel most of the resistance is from the bottom end engagement with the spark plug top.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer
14 minutes ago, SEBSPEED said:

 

I didn't trim anything. I pushed them in very firnly, felt & heard the plug thread engage. Felt the grommet at the top engaging the bore at the top too. They do not wiggle or move at all. It takes some good effort to pull them out, and when you do, you can feel most of the resistance is from the bottom end engagement with the spark plug top.

 

 

+1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer
7 hours ago, gig said:

+1

Thank you, gentlemen!:beer:

I saw a complete set of CBR COPs with the harness on ebay. Tried to talk CornerCarver into buying it for his 5th Gen, but I haven't heard back from him about it. I've got a CBR harness on the way to go with my Gixxer COPs. I prefer on principle to stick with Honda parts (I know they are all Denso), but they were free and I've got Gixxer mirrors anyway...:unsure:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

I got my Gixxer COPs installed today with the CBR harness plugs. :cool:

Short ride and it works fine, starts on the button! It had been taking a second stab at the starter for the past few years, so that's a result.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A spark is a spark, why spend the money, why bother to change from OEM ? no advantage i can see.  :comp13:  any more HV?  don't think so.

 

someone, please, why is this any better ??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, squirrelman said:

A spark is a spark, why spend the money, why bother to change from OEM ? no advantage i can see.  :comp13:  any more HV?  don't think so.

 

someone, please, why is this any better ??

 

Lighter weight, smaller packaging, potentially better spark. I'll leave it to someone else to prove that. although common sense seems to dictate that as fact when you look at both designs.

 

I switched for the first 2 reasons. One more would be future-proofing... the '08 CBR coils are 10yrs newer than the oldest 5th gen coils which are now 20...

 

All that said, I've got a set of '99 coils for sale. LOL

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I did this mod as well. Like halfrider, I'm going naked, and I didn't want to mess anything up by having half of my coils exposed to the elements, since I ride in pretty much whatever weather. It was not a difficult mod, and it did drop a slight bit of weight from the bike. About as much as a good poop... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

I'm not an expert, but I think the 6th Gen has 3 wire COPs that do not directly match up to 5th Gen wire harness. Plus they bolt into the valve cover to keep them in place. I know a friend that has a 5G engine in a 6G frame and that's been a minor issue. Don't know what others who have similar hybrids have done.

Also I don't know what 7th and 8th Gens have, but I'm sure there will be an answer in time...

 

Honestly, the '08 CBR1000RR COPs and harness is darn near drop in, plug and play (Quick ebay search and I see some for about $34 total). Some minor soldering is all you need to do. I actually crimped some flat blade connectors to try it out first, and it works great! I'll get to soldering them in a little while. I've got a couple projects and no money at the moment (I need to update my crap soldering kit). 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Its cheap. Its aesy to do. It declatters the top of the bike. It is a newer technology. And it saves weight.

Simple maths.

It doesn't mean that everyone has to do it, but its a great mod for us tinkerers.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer
7 hours ago, KevCarver said:

(Quick ebay search and I see some for about $34 total).

Sigh...  that's one problem with living so far away from anywhere  - the cheapest set I found (4 plugs + harness) was at least $100 more than that. And that is from the UK. One 'local' (other side of the country) ebay seller is asking for $220 for the same thing!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer
3 hours ago, shaynus said:

Sigh...  that's one problem with living so far away from anywhere  - the cheapest set I found (4 plugs + harness) was at least $100 more than that. And that is from the UK. One 'local' (other side of the country) ebay seller is asking for $220 for the same thing!

Sorry mate, I wasn't even paying attention to that...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy.