Pilot Power vs PR2 - not sure it's worth it anymore *updated 10/11/2011*

[SEBSPEED]

Let me start by saying, sorry for making another tire thread.

The reason I'm starting this thread, is to share my mileage experience with PP vs PR2 tires. I have now used up my 3rd combined set of PP front-PR2 rear. After getting much less miles from the first set than I expected, I started writing my mileage at time of tire swap on the inside of the wheel, and/or on the sidewall for reference. Data was skewed on the first set, as I found that the Michelins required more frequent air pressure checks than the Diablos I was running previously. I ended up running those closer to track pressures most of the time, leading to faster tire wear.

The last 2 sets I have checked pressure almost religiously before every ride, or every couple days.

I installed set #2 at 26,500 miles and am now wearing the rear of set #3 almost bald at 32,300mi. That's an average of 2900mi/set. I was getting around 24-2700 with Pirelli Diablo and Pilot Power sport tires. Cost per mile comes out roughly the same - 12 cents per mile for the PP/PR2 combo($242/pr), 12.5 cents per mile for the sport tires($200/pr).

Pretty much all my riding is back roads, I do commute but only a small portion of that is straight highway.

I think the deciding factor that would sway me back to sport tires is the profile difference of the PP & PR2 combo. When the tires are new, it takes me about 50-75 miles to scrub them in to where they work nicely together - the rear feels slow to turn in when brand new - as expected, since the rear has more of a round profile vs the more pointed PP. More annoying though, is the mismatch at the end of the tread life. Easily noticed increase in effort at the bar to change direction.

Anyway, just wanted to throw that out there. As always, everyone's mileage may vary... I will update with some pics of my toasted tires later today. Front is in the wear bars across the entire profile with the exception of the last 1/2" or so o neither side, rear is in the wear bars everywhere, tearing up on the sides, almost bald on the left and close to it on the right... It's kinda cool but it sure is getting expensive.

[HispanicSlammer]

Well if your wearing out the sides cause your doing all backroads and leaning over more then slabbing then you might as well stick with cheaper powers since its essentially the same rubber on the sides as a power. save a few bucks and just do powers and then they match, gotta save you $50 bucks a set?

[CharlesW]

While I have no tire knowledge beyond wearing them out;

Wouldn't running matched sets be an advantage?

Seems like similar compounds would be a good thing and having similar or matched profiles an even better thing.

The air pressure variance also seems strange.

After a little over 2000 miles on my Pilot Road 2s over a period of 28 days, I have only added about 1# each two different times. That might have been needed because of the checking of pressure more so than air loss by the tires themselves. I run 36 front and 42 rear per the owners manual.

FWIW, I did install new valve stems when the tires were mounted.

I'm not really an aggressive rider and my chicken strips are about 10mm on the rear and close to 15mm on the front.

As far as treadwear, 2000 miles doesn't appear to have caused much if any wear. I'm sure it has, but it certainly isn't noticeable. At this point, I would expect 8 to 10 thousand out of them.

I'm quite pleased with my choice of PR2s although the problems Michelin is having with the PR3s is a little disconcerting.

I thought the only real difference between the 2 and the 3 was the sipes for wet weather.

Edited June 30, 2011 by CharlesW

[Guest]

As much as I hate tire threads, mainly because people on the internet get their feathers ruffled much to quickly if you say anything negative about the tire which they purchased.

Also, riding habbits and roads conditions vary greatly from one location to another, this makes tire wear in Texas hard to compare to tire wear at Deal's Gap.

So, what I have found is if you ride more twisties than straight roads then PR2 and 2CT are just pure garbage. (Don't even get me started on the Pilot Pure trash)

I got 2500 miles on the PR2 and the 2CT here in WNC.

I can always get 3000 miles out of Pilot Powers.

The side edges on the two compound tires is slick long before the centers ever begin to show wear.

My friends in FL love to get the tires since they are good for a few more miles of FL riding.

[kaldek]

All this does is make me feel inadequate. 99% of my riding is commuting, so this is a problem I've never, ever had.

I get upwards of 14,000 kilometres out of my tyres. My rears wear out more than my fronts, and that's in the MIDDLE.

Sigh.

[CharlesW]

All this does is make me feel inadequate. 99% of my riding is commuting, so this is a problem I've never, ever had.

I get upwards of 14,000 kilometres out of my tyres. My rears wear out more than my fronts, and that's in the MIDDLE.

Sigh.

I'm with you.

I have never worn out the edges/sides of a tire.

When the center is down to the wear bars, the sides still look almost new.

[carlitos92]

All this does is make me feel inadequate. 99% of my riding is commuting, so this is a problem I've never, ever had.

I get upwards of 14,000 kilometres out of my tyres. My rears wear out more than my fronts, and that's in the MIDDLE.

Sigh.

Preach it!

[Ch.P]

All this does is make me feel inadequate. 99% of my riding is commuting, so this is a problem I've never, ever had.

I get upwards of 14,000 kilometres out of my tyres. My rears wear out more than my fronts, and that's in the MIDDLE.

Sigh.

I'm with you.

I have never worn out the edges/sides of a tire.

When the center is down to the wear bars, the sides still look almost new.

ditto...

[Monk]

While I have no tire knowledge beyond wearing them out;

Wouldn't running matched sets be an advantage?

Seems like similar compounds would be a good thing and having similar or matched profiles an even better thing.

The air pressure variance also seems strange.

After a little over 2000 miles on my Pilot Road 2s over a period of 28 days, I have only added about 1# each two different times. That might have been needed because of the checking of pressure more so than air loss by the tires themselves. I run 36 front and 42 rear per the owners manual.

FWIW, I did install new valve stems when the tires were mounted.

You make some points, loss of air from checking is always something to take note of, but in Seb's comments he did the same thing on all he's tyres and the PR2's were loosing more than the Diablos.

Also IIRC there are some compound changes on the 3 vs the 2...... if not some variance in where the change over from hard to softer starts and stops.

[Baileyrock]

Well I'm on the other end of this discussion as I still love the PP/PR2 combo and ride nothing but Twisties which is now over 83,000 miles and over 35 sets of tires on my 02 VFR alone.

I do love the Pilot Powers, but only avg. 2100 miles from a rear and that's an avg over more than 15 PP rears. Since switching to a PR2 rear I now avg. better than 3300 miles from a rear(set) with No loss of grip or confidence and I don't ride slow.

I don't know why this combo doesn't work for some of you but they work Great for me and many others here!

BR

[ggathagan]

Well I'm on the other end of this discussion as I still love the PP/PR2 combo and ride nothing but Twisties which is now over 83,000 miles and over 35 sets of tires on my 02 VFR alone.

I do love the Pilot Powers, but only avg. 2100 miles from a rear and that's an avg over more than 15 PP rears. Since switching to a PR2 rear I now avg. better than 3300 miles from a rear(set) with No loss of grip or confidence and I don't ride slow.

I don't know why this combo doesn't work for some of you but they work Great for me and many others here!

BR

The road surfaces may differ enough to cause the wear difference.

Weather differences between the two states would suggest that the NY roads may also be in perennially worse shape than those in TN.

[Baileyrock]

Well I'm on the other end of this discussion as I still love the PP/PR2 combo and ride nothing but Twisties which is now over 83,000 miles and over 35 sets of tires on my 02 VFR alone.

I do love the Pilot Powers, but only avg. 2100 miles from a rear and that's an avg over more than 15 PP rears. Since switching to a PR2 rear I now avg. better than 3300 miles from a rear(set) with No loss of grip or confidence and I don't ride slow.

I don't know why this combo doesn't work for some of you but they work Great for me and many others here!

BR

The road surfaces may differ enough to cause the wear difference.

Weather differences between the two states would suggest that the NY roads may also be in perennially worse shape than those in TN.

A possibility, but since I get less miles out of a PP and more miles out of a PR2 than Seb it doesn't seem like the problem!

[Guest]

All this does is make me feel inadequate. 99% of my riding is commuting, so this is a problem I've never, ever had.

I get upwards of 14,000 kilometres out of my tyres. My rears wear out more than my fronts, and that's in the MIDDLE.

Sigh.

I'm with you.

I have never worn out the edges/sides of a tire.

When the center is down to the wear bars, the sides still look almost new.

ditto...

Phew.... I didnt know that was ok.

Started looking into tyres the other day then realised my 08 has under 4k (kms) on the clock and original tyres with PLENTY of tread left

Clearly I do too much researching and not enough riding

[VFRBulldawg]

Phew.... I didnt know that was ok.

Started looking into tyres the other day then realised my 08 has under 4k (kms) on the clock and original tyres with PLENTY of tread left

Clearly I do too much researching and not enough riding

Wow only 2,400 miles in 3 years. That's only 800 miles a year. I've done that in a weekend. You should ride more, my friend. It's fun! Do you have a group to ride with? I always do more riding and get more "fun" miles in when I'm riding with friends.

For me down in the boring, flat part of Georgia I definitely wear out my centers before the sides. I got 5,000 miles on my first set of PP's and a little over 4,000 miles from set of track school take off PP's I got from WERA803. I've got 4,000 miles on my first set of PR2's and the tread still looks great. If they were PP's a flat spot would be forming on the centers that makes turn in really suck. I plan on trying out the PP front/PR2 rear combo on my next set.

[Polarbear]

All this does is make me feel inadequate. 99% of my riding is commuting, so this is a problem I've never, ever had.

I get upwards of 14,000 kilometres out of my tyres. My rears wear out more than my fronts, and that's in the MIDDLE.

Sigh.

I'm with you.

I have never worn out the edges/sides of a tire.

When the center is down to the wear bars, the sides still look almost new.

Ahem.... Make that three...

c

[MBrane]

I ran a PR2 on the rear, and after doing a cost vs. mileage comparison the difference was about $5. I'm sticking (no pun intended) with the Powers. Not that I had any traction problems with the Road, but why chance it to save $5? I like the turn-in of the Power rear better anyway. YMMV.

Edited June 30, 2011 by MBrane

[Lee 2002]

.... and you told me you wern't going to figure cost/mile, Seb. I hope I'm not the one that got you to put pencil to paper.

[spud786]

The proad 2 is a slower turn in compared to a Power front , the turn in however is usable and Long life, I run pretty high pressures.

One of the reasons I like the pp/ bt21 combo, its really quick and I have a blast ever time I ride it. The road 2 package, is maximum life, performance and money savings package, but not the most fun. Its all about the cost savings, while meeting a certain performance Gate. Its hard to beat the Road 2 , when you need the highest performance and the most life.

[SEBSPEED]

Well I'm on the other end of this discussion as I still love the PP/PR2 combo and ride nothing but Twisties which is now over 83,000 miles and over 35 sets of tires on my 02 VFR alone.

I do love the Pilot Powers, but only avg. 2100 miles from a rear and that's an avg over more than 15 PP rears. Since switching to a PR2 rear I now avg. better than 3300 miles from a rear(set) with No loss of grip or confidence and I don't ride slow.

I don't know why this combo doesn't work for some of you but they work Great for me and many others here!

BR

Hey now, I never said I didn't like them! This combo works really well, grip is great and I know many other folks love the combo for grip and tire life. I just found that for me personally, it might be more cost effective to go for the full sport set. I'm sure there are more people out there that can't comprehend how we wear these things out in half the mileage that it takes them, but I'm not going to question how they do it. I gotta go for what suits me. Saving money suits me, so if my mileage from a different set of tires saves me fifty bucks or more, I'm going for it. That's extra gas money.

I know you and I have discussed the little nuances of this combo before, and we both agreed about feeling the profile difference more towards the end of the tread life. To be honest, my complaint about the difference isn't about lack of turn-in, but rather the heavy "steering a wheelbarrow" feeling I get once I'm in the corner. It takes much more effort to make a line change.

For the casual rider/reader, please note that I'm really going into detail here and getting picky, if you will. The tires are good tires, a great choice for performance and longevity for everyday (sane) riding.

.... and you told me you wern't going to figure cost/mile, Seb. I hope I'm not the one that got you to put pencil to paper.

I think you are, actually... I know I left a bunch of tread life behind when I left TMAC, but I was really scratching my head about wearing them out so fast after everything I read, so Iran the numbers to see if I was going crazy or not!

[DDO-VFR]

Obviously you're having trouble keeping the bike vertical. Have you considered training wheels? That might break your bad habit of leaning over.

I think this thread is just a backhanded way of torturing all of us that are forced to look for turnpikes in order the lean the bike over....

Like many here, I have to slab for an hour just to get to anything remotely twisty.

Sort of like someone complaining they paid 50,000$ in income tax. You're not gonna get a lot of sympathy from the guy shucking burgers at McDonalds Sounds like a 'good' problem to me. In terms of $/km riding cost, I pay equal parts gas and rubber, so there! We all have our crosses to bear

Brian

[Baileyrock]

I know you and I have discussed the little nuances of this combo before, and we both agreed about feeling the profile difference more towards the end of the tread life. To be honest, my complaint about the difference isn't about lack of turn-in, but rather the heavy "steering a wheelbarrow" feeling I get once I'm in the corner. It takes much more effort to make a line change.

Hey, maybe that's why I'm so Slow now!

For the casual rider/reader, please note that I'm really going into detail here and getting picky, if you will. The tires are good tires, a great choice for performance and longevity for everyday (sane) riding.

I'm far from a Casual rider, not on your level anymore, but this combo(PP/PR2) provides a minimum of a 50% increase in rear tread life compared to a PP w/o any real loss of Fun for me. Considering I've already burned thru 35-40 rears on this bike alone a 50% gain in mileage is HUGE cost savings for me with no loss of fun/safety factor.

I have slowed down since coming bach from breaking both my legs, but I'm still fairly quick!

[The Phantom]

Hey Seb

You're not a small lad... some of that rapid tyre wear could be down to physics more than anything else :)

How's your suspension (this is the Vtec?); tired suspenders can accelerate tyre wear too.

BR, good to hear you're still on the fast line, keep those legs together now mate!

[SEBSPEED]

Hey Seb

You're not a small lad... some of that rapid tyre wear could be down to physics more than anything else :)

How's your suspension (this is the Vtec?); tired suspenders can accelerate tyre wear too.

I'm no MotoGP jockey, that's for sure. But I'm not HUGE either... suspension is kept up pretty well, forks are valved & sprung but could use new oil(2 years old) - didn't do it this year as I'm going to worked R1 stuff very soon. Ohlins rear is still good, a bit undersprung but I have a Wilbers triple clicker going in with the correct spring this year too.

[Baileyrock]

I'm no MotoGP jockey, that's for sure. But I'm not HUGE either... suspension is kept up pretty well, forks are valved & sprung but could use new oil(2 years old) - didn't do it this year as I'm going to worked R1 stuff very soon. Ohlins rear is still good, a bit undersprung but I have a Wilbers triple clicker going in with the correct spring this year too.

Being your weight and riding as hard as you do that under sprung shock could be eating tires at a more rapid pace than it should?

[Jmmymc750]

How much you weigh makes a big difference in tread life. I personally weigh 280 right now (before gear)...I got 5000+ commuter miles out of my Conti motion...