Member Contributer coderighter Posted September 8, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted September 8, 2011 I just installed a Compu-fire 55402 series regulator; I bought it from Chrome-Addiction.com for $173. The unit is a little smaller than the standard Honda R&R but the mounting holes line up nicely so installation was easy. I just cut off the stator connector and lengthen the wires then connected them to the new regulator using a connector block. The unit came with 2 long and very beefy power output wires which I connected directly to the battery via the 40 amp fuse that it came with. This avoids using the old cables and connectors that everyone here on this site seems to replace with a VFRness. The regulator gave 14.25 volts at the battery and was supplying 15 amps to run the bike and charge the battery i.e. much less that the 40 amps that is continuously supplied by original shunt unit most of which is dumped to ground. The major benefit of the series regulator is that the power supplied is typically half that of the standard unit as it doesn’t regulate by dumping excess power to ground. So I don’t expect to burn up regulators and stators on regular basis as many people here seem to. The regulator is rated at 40 amps which gives it has plenty of reserve power for more accessories. How is it for keeping cool itself? I mean when my OEM R&R failed on my 2001, you could fry and egg on the fins (I burned my hand through a leather palmed work glove). So when I installed the Rick's unit I mounted it on a heat sink plate and now it gets warm, but not hot. What I'm most concerned with right now is the fact that the Honda wiring harness is causing a nearly .7V drop between voltage at the regulator connector and the battery terminals. Getting a VFRness should solve that issue. It is interesting that the compu-fire unit only needs one positive and one negative output wire. Still I'm going to be watching this thread to see how the compu-fire unit holds up. Do this mod!! Twisting 12 wires together and soldering them is a very poor connection. Solder is not a good conductor of current. To do it correctly you should use some type of compression / crimp fitting, then solder if you wish. Better yet, clean and adjust the connectors you have. Exhibit A : images1.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted September 8, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted September 8, 2011 I'm a tad worried about the 40 amp fuse. On my vehicle (yea, I know two different worlds), I just have a 30 amp fuse and have been told not to use anything bigger. Harleys use a 30 amp battery and ours (stock) are just 15amp batteries. Do I just need to shut up? Aint the stocker fuse 30amp? That's probly what I would use... I've done the R/R output direct to the battery with other units and gone with 30a fuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted September 8, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted September 8, 2011 I'm not so sure about the Hobby King connectors. I say that because it's not the connection that's the problem--it's the corrosion (I think). So that's why I'm using Delphi Metri-Pack sealed 630 series connectors when I install mine. On another note, I recently saw that someone selling reg/recs online (including the Cycle Electric series-type one) claims that series reg/recs get HOTTER than shunt-type reg/recs, hence the big fins (especially on the Cycle Electric one). That doesn't sound right to me, but mine ain't getting very hot mainly because they're sitting on the bench... Any thoughts on this? Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspanglish Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 I just installed a Compu-fire 55402 series regulator; I bought it from Chrome-Addiction.com for $173. The unit is a little smaller than the standard Honda R&R but the mounting holes line up nicely so installation was easy. I just cut off the stator connector and lengthen the wires then connected them to the new regulator using a connector block. The unit came with 2 long and very beefy power output wires which I connected directly to the battery via the 40 amp fuse that it came with. This avoids using the old cables and connectors that everyone here on this site seems to replace with a VFRness. The regulator gave 14.25 volts at the battery and was supplying 15 amps to run the bike and charge the battery i.e. much less that the 40 amps that is continuously supplied by original shunt unit most of which is dumped to ground. The major benefit of the series regulator is that the power supplied is typically half that of the standard unit as it doesn’t regulate by dumping excess power to ground. So I don’t expect to burn up regulators and stators on regular basis as many people here seem to. The regulator is rated at 40 amps which gives it has plenty of reserve power for more accessories. How is it for keeping cool itself? I mean when my OEM R&R failed on my 2001, you could fry and egg on the fins (I burned my hand through a leather palmed work glove). So when I installed the Rick's unit I mounted it on a heat sink plate and now it gets warm, but not hot. What I'm most concerned with right now is the fact that the Honda wiring harness is causing a nearly .7V drop between voltage at the regulator connector and the battery terminals. Getting a VFRness should solve that issue. It is interesting that the compu-fire unit only needs one positive and one negative output wire. Still I'm going to be watching this thread to see how the compu-fire unit holds up. Do this mod!! Twisting 12 wires together and soldering them is a very poor connection. Solder is not a good conductor of current. To do it correctly you should use some type of compression / crimp fitting, then solder if you wish. Better yet, clean and adjust the connectors you have. Exhibit A : images1.jpg The OEN connector is literally useless... it is a very bad design and much worse than the soldering job performed... which, by the way was done by an electrical engineer who keeps one of Spain's major shipping dock machinery running... and has a very keen sense of responsability and has excellent theoretical and practical knowledge based on years of study and experience (he's making his own R/R)... a blowtorch soldering unit was used, not a soldering iron and he assured me the solder was good to go... all measurements taken afterwards with a multimeter gave excellent results... the measurements taken beforehand were pathetic. There's nothing to be done with that connector. Perhaps some crimping and individual connections would be even better, and everyone is free to improve the mod as they see fit... the point is to fix that weak link as it's not helping at all... safe to say that since performing that mod, and installing Tightwad's R/R, I have had no electrical woes (which used to be the order of the day for me), whatsoever, and my Yuasa YTZ14S battery came off the bike and onto the battery tenderer last week when I was off for holidays and in 1 minute the light turned green... the R/R doesn't heat up... electrically it would seem the bike is great now... but thank you for the pointer... Unfortuantely, the mod had to be done in the street at that stage and I'm sure my buddy wouldn't do something he wasn't sure wouldn't be effective and lasting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer coderighter Posted September 8, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted September 8, 2011 I'm not so sure about the Hobby King connectors. I say that because it's not the connection that's the problem--it's the corrosion (I think). So that's why I'm using Delphi Metri-Pack sealed 630 series connectors when I install mine. On another note, I recently saw that someone selling reg/recs online (including the Cycle Electric series-type one) claims that series reg/recs get HOTTER than shunt-type reg/recs, hence the big fins (especially on the Cycle Electric one). That doesn't sound right to me, but mine ain't getting very hot mainly because they're sitting on the bench... Any thoughts on this? Ciao, I used the Delphi on mine also for the same reason. I measured the temp of mine the first couple trips and the frame of the bike next to it was always hotter than the regulator. However, I'm guessing at full load, it actually might run hotter than a shunt type. The only way you get to full load is idle, high beams, with the fan running. I'll post up my install pics later today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 hey guys i just put the compufire on my 07. everything seems good until 9000 rpms, at which point it starts over charging. im kinda stumped. any advice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer DaveB Posted October 7, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 7, 2011 What charging voltage are you getting above 9000 rpm mine seemed pretty constant at 14.25 volts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 hey guys i just put the compufire on my 07. everything seems good until 9000 rpms, at which point it starts over charging. im kinda stumped. any advice? Why what happens, to have that conclusion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 yeah mines really constant at 14.2 volts from idle until 9000 rpms, at that point my the voltage goes to 16-17 volts and my hid's go into protect mode and cut off. if i turn my fan on with the hids on as well, there is no problem. i dont know if, between having led brake lights and hid headlights, there just isnt enough load on the r/r or what, but when i turn the fan on i never have a problem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightwad Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 The stator makes more and more voltage the faster the motor spins....maybe this has something to do with it? My Ricks MOSFET unit makes 14.8 volts at 9500 RPM.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 lol well yeah, that definitively has something to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightwad Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 lol well yeah, that definitively has something to do with it. It shouldn't tho...unless they only use parts rated to an AC voltage level that is too low? I think these were designed for low revving Harley Davidsons after all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 yeah when i told them it starts overcharging at 9000 rpm's, they were like holy shit! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 i think im just gonna get another set of hids and hopefully it will be enough to keep the voltage down, because im not driving any slower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted October 8, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted October 8, 2011 So we are thinking the HID's ate contributing to the over-charging? Can we get a head count on who's got one and bike model? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer coderighter Posted October 8, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted October 8, 2011 yeah mines really constant at 14.2 volts from idle until 9000 rpms, at that point my the voltage goes to 16-17 volts and my hid's go into protect mode and cut off. if i turn my fan on with the hids on as well, there is no problem. i dont know if, between having led brake lights and hid headlights, there just isnt enough load on the r/r or what, but when i turn the fan on i never have a problem... I connected a Tektronix meter this morning and went for a ride. All of my bulbs are LED's and my low beams are 35 watt HID's. Once warm, it idles with 14.45. Once I get to around 2500 rpm it starts droping and 'lands' at 14.30 around 3000 rpm. It stays at 14.30 all the way to 12k rpm. I rode around for about an hour and took it above 11k several times with the same result. At the end of the ride, the Compufire was still cool. You either have a bad unit, which happens I guess, or something else is going on with your bike. The first thing I would do is check all your grounds, clean and tight.. I have a friend that installed a Compufire on his Blackbird last weekend after his 3rd ground shunt failed. I'll try make it over there later this weekend and see what voltages are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer coderighter Posted October 8, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted October 8, 2011 lol well yeah, that definitively has something to do with it. It shouldn't tho...unless they only use parts rated to an AC voltage level that is too low? I think these were designed for low revving Harley Davidsons after all... Hmm... Not sure about that. I'm pretty sure that's not going to matter, here's my theory These number are not exact, I'm using them to better show my line of thinking. Lets say the Harley idles at 600 RPM and the VFR idles at 1200 RPM. If you designed the stator to output enough voltage to give you 14 volts DC from the R/R at idle on both bikes then the output at 6000 RPM on the Harley would be the same as it is at 12k on the VFR. Yes....No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted October 8, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted October 8, 2011 These number are not exact, I'm using them to better show my line of thinking. Lets say the Harley idles at 600 RPM and the VFR idles at 1200 RPM. If you designed the stator to output enough voltage to give you 14 volts DC from the R/R at idle on both bikes then the output at 6000 RPM on the Harley would be the same as it is at 12k on the VFR. Yes....No? It's possible this particular R/R reached its switching limit and was unable to switch the stator on and off fast enough to keep the DC output down at 14.5 volts. HIDs would technically make this worse because they draw less power don't they? Less demand on the stator means more switching by the regulator. If we demand more power from the stator then the regulator which switch the stator off less often. I would get the faulty bike to repeat the test with the high beams on and an additional load applied to the system - like another H4 bulb wired to the battery terminals temporarily. If it maintains 14.5 volts at 9,000+ rpm when an additional electrical load is applied, then my theory is given some weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted October 8, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted October 8, 2011 yeah mines really constant at 14.2 volts from idle until 9000 rpms, at that point my the voltage goes to 16-17 volts and my hid's go into protect mode and cut off. if i turn my fan on with the hids on as well, there is no problem. i dont know if, between having led brake lights and hid headlights, there just isnt enough load on the r/r or what, but when i turn the fan on i never have a problem... Ah. This lends weight to my theory. When the fan is on at 9,000rpm what's the voltage - a good 14.5 or thereabouts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 kaldek im definitively buying your theory. i just dont see how it could be a defective rr since it works great from idle-9000 rpms and remains cool the whole time while doing so. and if i put a little more load on (fan), it works perfectly at all rpms... the only thing i can think of is getting another set of hid's for my high beams, but i dont know if this will be a big enough load to slow down the series switching speed. i guess ill plug my roommates extra set in and test it out if the sun comes out tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer coderighter Posted October 9, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted October 9, 2011 These number are not exact, I'm using them to better show my line of thinking. Lets say the Harley idles at 600 RPM and the VFR idles at 1200 RPM. If you designed the stator to output enough voltage to give you 14 volts DC from the R/R at idle on both bikes then the output at 6000 RPM on the Harley would be the same as it is at 12k on the VFR. Yes....No? It's possible this particular R/R reached its switching limit and was unable to switch the stator on and off fast enough to keep the DC output down at 14.5 volts. HIDs would technically make this worse because they draw less power don't they? Less demand on the stator means more switching by the regulator. If we demand more power from the stator then the regulator which switch the stator off less often. I would get the faulty bike to repeat the test with the high beams on and an additional load applied to the system - like another H4 bulb wired to the battery terminals temporarily. If it maintains 14.5 volts at 9,000+ rpm when an additional electrical load is applied, then my theory is given some weight. I've never seen a white paper on how the Compufire works but my understanding that to make a switching regulator, regulate, you would adjust the 'on' dwell not the frequency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer coderighter Posted October 9, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted October 9, 2011 kaldek im definitively buying your theory. i just dont see how it could be a defective rr since it works great from idle-9000 rpms and remains cool the whole time while doing so. and if i put a little more load on (fan), it works perfectly at all rpms... the only thing i can think of is getting another set of hid's for my high beams, but i dont know if this will be a big enough load to slow down the series switching speed. i guess ill plug my roommates extra set in and test it out if the sun comes out tomorrow. I just got back from checking out the Blackbird and it works perfect up to 10k, rock solid. I couldn't convince him to take it to 12k If your really sure that your HID's are kicking off because of an over voltage than why don't you just return the Compufire and have them either fix it or send you a new one. I work in electronics and it's not uncommon to get one bad out of the box. I still believe the Compufire is the way to go. On the drive back home I thought of this comparison. These R/R's are like cruise control on a car. A true series regulator operates by controlling the throttle to maintain speed. A switching regulator would work by opening and closing the throttle to adjust speed. A shunt regulator works by opening the throttle full bore and using the brakes to control the speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 they said that since it wasnt installed on a harley (the bike it was intended for) they are not responsible and that theyd take it back/repair it for a charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 but thank you for checking the blackbird for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer coderighter Posted October 9, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted October 9, 2011 they said that since it wasnt installed on a harley (the bike it was intended for) they are not responsible and that theyd take it back/repair it for a charge. Huh.... well that's not very nice of them. I guess from now on, everybody that has a compufire has a Harley, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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