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Just Installed a Compufire Series Regulator


DaveB

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Switchblade!

Any update on the SH775?

Still running it, and why do you not have any confidence in it as stated in earlier posts?

I've got the FH012 in mine, and it seems to be going great for several years. But now that I'm basically 100% LED I'm wondering if I should be going with a series. I put a CompuFIre in my RC51, but Timmy's got that now. Should be better in that application since it's a twin and RPM's stay a bit lower.

Still outputting 14.4 Vdc, soild as a rock ..

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  • 4 weeks later...
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I have a Honda CBR1000RR-06 which has the same problems as many 04-05 models and your VFRs, ruined stator.

I've read through this topic that the Series type R/R is better from the life of the stator but Jack at Roadstercycle and some really helpful guys on here have told me that the SH775 will not be good for my high revving bike, especially the way I ride, and to go with the FH020 instead but I don't want to order the FH020 if there will be a new Series R/R from Shindengen shortly or a different make out there.

Please advise me.

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My compufire series R &R unit is still working great after several years. I have heard about these failing if you do alot of high rev riding. I'm an old fart and so am not at 10k very often. These units were developed for low reving Harleys and so i can belive they fail with constant high revs.

I don't know if the sh755 has been designed for high reving bikes if it is aimed at ATV's then probably not. Which is a shame because a series R&R will definitely put much less load on the sator

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I have owned 5 VFRs, a Blackbird and a Superhawk. Only one had a RR problem (one of my two 01 VFRs) and it was a bike I purchased used and the failure was due to a bad connector. Bike was obviously never garage kept when I bought it. Eastern Beavered it and the problem never returned in the time I owned the bike; 12K miles. One of my two 07 VFRs I bough new immediately had the smell of burnt plastic after high speed runs and it had a defective connector from the factory. I Eastern Beavered that and all was great with no more burning plastic for 18K before I sold it. No way I was going to warranty a Honda connector, rather just fix it myself, as I consider a wiring upgrade as much an accessory as an aftermarket exhaust.

In my opinion, and experience, the problem has always been and always will be spotty connector quality. Several of the aftermarket RRs I have helped diagnose over the years use even worse quality wire and connectors than the OEM stuff. If you want a durable, reliable charging system I always recommend the Stator-to-Rectifier Eastern Beaver connectors and stock stator/rectifiers. Any other connector that gives a specific bike a problem I usually bypass or upgrade the faulty connection as well.

My old neighbors 99 Blackbird is still running on its factory charging system after I helped him rewire the poor conducting connectors. He only has 60K but a lot of time.

How bout Baileyrock's VFR. A bad wire or two but no charging parts as far as i know. Correct me if I'm wrong (again) BR.

KEB

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Thanks KEB.

I know that the connector from the rewound oem stator to the reg/rec was burnt and as I wasn't sure what to do my electrician friend cut them off and connected the wires with bullet connectors.

When I started breaking down I saw friend and we tested the stator and reg/rec, both values were bad but as that was sometime ago I can't recall what they were now.

I now want to buy a new reg/rec and stator to use my bike when the winter is over. 85c076bc476ddaa77dc4f0282fa80875.jpg

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Thanks KEB.

I know that the connector from the rewound oem stator to the reg/rec was burnt and as I wasn't sure what to do my electrician friend cut them off and connected the wires with bullet connectors.

When I started breaking down I saw friend and we tested the stator and reg/rec, both values were bad but as that was sometime ago I can't recall what they were now.

I now want to buy a new reg/rec and stator to use my bike when the winter is over.

No doubt the stators and RRs do go bad and in some cases their failures may contribute to connector failure just as connector failure can possibly contribute to stator/RR failure. Nothing lasts forever...except maybe VFR electrical issues. :wink: For the record all high mileage bikes of all makes can suffer electrical issues so VFRs are not necessarily unique. I would never dismiss the VFR for a poor electrical since it is easy and relatively inexpensive to correct.

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I have owned 5 VFRs, a Blackbird and a Superhawk. Only one had a RR problem (one of my two 01 VFRs) and it was a bike I purchased used and the failure was due to a bad connector. Bike was obviously never garage kept when I bought it. Eastern Beavered it and the problem never returned in the time I owned the bike; 12K miles. One of my two 07 VFRs I bough new immediately had the smell of burnt plastic after high speed runs and it had a defective connector from the factory. I Eastern Beavered that and all was great with no more burning plastic for 18K before I sold it. No way I was going to warranty a Honda connector, rather just fix it myself, as I consider a wiring upgrade as much an accessory as an aftermarket exhaust.

In my opinion, and experience, the problem has always been and always will be spotty connector quality. Several of the aftermarket RRs I have helped diagnose over the years use even worse quality wire and connectors than the OEM stuff. If you want a durable, reliable charging system I always recommend the Stator-to-Rectifier Eastern Beaver connectors and stock stator/rectifiers. Any other connector that gives a specific bike a problem I usually bypass or upgrade the faulty connection as well.

My old neighbors 99 Blackbird is still running on its factory charging system after I helped him rewire the poor conducting connectors. He only has 60K but a lot of time.

How bout Baileyrock's VFR. A bad wire or two but no charging parts as far as i know. Correct me if I'm wrong (again) BR.

KEB

He had a connector failure on the stator /RR connection a few months back. I was surprised to hear he still has original stator with 100,000 miles. That has to be really toasted by now.

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  • 2 years later...

Hey guys!  New to this forum but have been lurking quite some time.  Great stuff here!  Been confused between the different US, Euro, ... models but got that sorted.

 

I haven't gotten to the bottom of this thread, 6 pages, but there seems to be a lot of confusion and misinformation on charging system, series, parallel, switching, alternator, generator, blah blah, blah everywhere!  So here goes, yea a nerd's plight or whatever...

 

#1  After examining my bike today, the failure point IS NOT the regulator/rectifier or stator.  The source of our problems are those crummy connectors that Honda uses.  I've searched throughout this afternoon off and on looking at comments from all across the net from VFRs to RC51s to Superhawks, you name it.  If Honda is to keep service centers open, something has to go bad, right?  Not the mechanical, usually, but instead a simple but costly fix at the stealerships.

 

Having to break apart the connector between the regulator and the stator revealed because of heat damage the following--dirt and debris.

 

Now here it is.  KISS principle folks...  For the most part, wire harnesses for power transmission can be considered over a short run if designed correctly to have less than or equal to a 3% voltage drop.  At the end of the day and for simplification, let's say that there is 0V drop across the wiring.  Well, here is the rub.  If the connection gets dirty, we will have higher resistance.  That voltage drop across the connection will act as a resistor.  When there is a voltage drop across a resistor, we will have I squared R losses.  That is P = I^2 * R.  That loss is easily identifiable as heat.  There is a one to one correspondence between temperature and voltage.  Now as those points of connection get hot and cook the connector and the debris, the connection becomes worse, making a soot which is not a conductor but a pretty good insulator.  Eventually, the dirty contacts creates enough resistance that the power that should be going to your accessories gets used up in that crummy connector until it bakes itself.  It would be nice if it just went out like a quick blow fuse!  It doesn't.  REPLACE THOSE CONNECTORS WITH SOMETHING THAT IS ENVIRONMENTALLY SEALED--basically watertight.

 

#2  Getting a R/R that has a higher current rating will only typically make the device more robust.  Thinking that you will be able to get more current, therefore more power is not the case.  Say the voltage is constant; that is what we want.  That means, current goes up if we want more power.  The bike has a 30A fuse on the battery and one internally I believe in the starter relay.  That means, at the end of the day, the system was designed for in and around 30A.  If by chance one should change the fuse rating to something higher along with enough of a load over a duration, the current rating will surpass that of the wiring, at least on the main branch before it branches after fusing to the sub-circuits.  You could modify the wiring harness before that AND at the ground (return sub-branches) to accommodate, but too much work.

 

#3  Having read a post by Talus, some good stuff but...

     Again, connectors are the bad and the ugly.

 

    Wondering what fuses to use?  Place one fuse before your branches, 30A.  Why?  Using extra wire, simplified, will increase the current capability of the wire.  If there are three different fuses, what will be the values?  Well, let's say we choose three (3) 30A fuses.  That combination will now blow roughly around a single 90A fuse rating!  No protection.  Now lets say, we choose three 10A fuses or a combination of three that sums to 30A.  We have no control over the proportion of current in each single wire.  The wires are not closely coupled as in a single stranded wire.  Let's just say it is perfectly even though, probably will be anyway...  To keep the 30A rating we chose a combination that summed to 30A.  Any branch of the three seeing more than it's rating, say 20A on the 10A fused leg (branch, wire), it will burn.  Now we have two wires to do the job.  The current rating for each leg will get it done, but, the fuses will not be up to snuff.  Another will blow, then the third.  If the same over current situation hasn't been rectified (pun intended), we will have a cascade of burning fuses.  The correct course of action if taking that route with the three wires, is to fuse with the same 30A fuse before the branches you added.  That way, we keep 30A protection on the mains and ensure anything engineering by Honda stays in coordination (fuse blowing order).  Now if any wire should fail, or even two, you would not notice a difference.  That addition is more robust (more stuff but beyond this rant).

 

# 4  Series Regulator, MOSFET Regulator, Parallel Regulator, Switching Regulator -->  KISS, they all work well if those crummy connectors worked well.  Getting a higher rated device just means it will with everything equal last longer.  Semiconductors that come from the factory are close in batches but not identical, especially in different runs.  MOSFETs are great for power applications more so than BJT and so forth at these power and current levels.  The topology of the internal circuitry combined with the type of switcher and control circuitry are of more value than just the words if you get my drift. They work as a system.  Yeah yeah, there are benefits to the MOSFET type...  This series regulator that is up for grabs...  I wonder if there is a SMPS (a switcher)  like that in your computer's power supply) for motorcycles.  If there is, I would love to see its schematic and control circuitry!  I bet it is big and $$$.

 

# 5  Connecting that extraneous monitor wire?  Does it even function?  I'd love to take a look at before and after the connection was made on a scope to see if there were any changes.  It may just be a standard connection that is Shindengen uses for its designs.  Removing one just for Honda would cost, cost more than you think.  I cannot get a datasheet on any of their stuff!  That way, I could tell for sure.  I believe Talus fixed the issue with the connector change.

 

More on # 5.  The R/R should have a range that it works in within the given tolerances of its design spec and target (electrical operating conditions of the bike).  We should be safe there.  That voltage sense, hmmmmm.  It is a feedback loop, but as many have pointed out, it's the cheap way out.  If everything is working correctly, the R/R doesn't need it.  Temperature, blah, blah, blah, will cause changes but NOTHING is ENGINEERED to EXACTNESS.  There is always compromise.  That is the difference between Pure Math & Physics (theory, not applied) versus engineering.  If there is, and I could just see the durn circuit, I'd be pleased so that I could see some more different control strategies.

 

ANYWAY, THAT WAS MY RANT.  With these bikes, I betcha a clean and dry bike is a better bike!  Mine is a commuter, soooo we need a simple fix.  I sure like the idea of a series regulator; I'd just love to see a novel switcher out there.

 

Take care.  Oh yes I'm a budding Power Systems Engineer, not a seasoned veteran and don't know it all at all.  My specialty at them moment, which isn't saying much, is novel buck boost converters, a kind of switching converter.

 

Oh, there are probably other maladies, but Honda knows what it's doin...

 

Take care and thanks for taking care of me even when yall didn't even know it.

 

Now to see if there is a switcher out there.  Now that would be something if it is small!

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Hi Ridnout - Well hello to you too...... 

 

This forum is a great place and  full of geek techies, engineers and mechanix.  Hang around and you might learn something...

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I sure hope so!  Of course I will have to filter some of this knowledge through experience and learning.  From past reading, I didn't know the differences between the different models, Canadian, Australian, Euro, Uk...  I was so confused when looking at my bike after reading some threads.  Thinking everything was gonna be fine, only to go to my bike and be lost.  That is when I paid closer attention and looked at the contributors' locations.  Man, even the language is different between UK and US English.

 

Oh, by the way, I own a '99 and an '04, the ketchup colored ones and going through a slow process of getting them up to snuff.

 

Great stuff here.  Taking it with a grain of salt.  You see, Talus' fix with the three fused wires with a sum of fuse ratings to 30A or three 30A fuses are a mistake.  Just keep the one 30A before the three if one were to choose to do so.  Essentially no protection or an incident where one will have to like change all three fuses for one fault.  Just a contribution.

 

The monitor wire stuff, I dunno if it is even active, love to scope the output with the battery connected and without.

 

Oh yes, another thing-->  I've decided to use a better connector instead of soldering and shrink wrapping each stator phase.  Why?  Field serviceability.  If I carry an extra R/R with a matching connector to the one that will be fitted to the bike, voila, on the road repair.  Otherwise, I'd need more tools, well not many more; it'll just be quicker.

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The point is that this thread is 6 yrs old and the info is dated and not relavent to to current tech/info on the topics. 

 

So relax grab a beer and do an introduction thread of your bikes and some photos .

 

Btw - a good 60/70% of the group has been here 7ish + years and longer.

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Know many from VFRWorld.  Yeah, saw the date on the thread.  Have crummy pics and both are in pieces.  Been thinking of doing one of those build threads, but it wouldn't be anything remarkable; although, I do have one group buy suggestion later.

 

I've been lurking for about three years or so, give or take.

 

Hated when the site went down.  I believe I got the concoction from here, but not quite sure for the PPG mix for the Italian Red. I gave it to a painter in town for an estimate but doubt he still has it and can't find it.

 

Anyway, I'll probably introduce myself correctly and such.  Those that I've joined in forum are CandyRedRC46, Guoseph, BadBilly (the funny), NorCalBoy, and this cool Australian with a lovely white 6TH Gen with shimmering flames.

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Who is this "Talus"? :blush:

 

I have two Compufires, one on my sadly rarely-ridden 5th gen in California, and the other in a box here in the UK.  (Anyone want to buy one?)  I believe the early positive reports did not reveal these reg/recs' limitations on high-revving engines--they were designed for Harleys, after all.  My current flavour of the month is the massive OEM Suzuki DL1000 series-type, of which I have now acquired a few to use on my VFRs (I never learn!) 

 

I have long been an uneducated believer in the "resistance" theory of VFR charging system failure and hence an early adopter of environmentally sealed electrical connectors.  It's nice to get some educated agreement.

 

Ciao,

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6 hours ago, JZH said:

I have two Compufires, one on my sadly rarely-ridden 5th gen in California, and the other in a box here in the UK.  (Anyone want to buy one?)  I believe the early positive reports did not reveal these reg/recs' limitations on high-revving engines--they were designed for Harleys, after all.  My current flavour of the month is the massive OEM Suzuki DL1000 series-type, of which I have now acquired a few to use on my VFRs (I never learn!) 

 

Compufires are great as long as you stay under 10,000 RPM's. My Compufire did not like high RPMs and would over charge everytime I went over 10k and eventually failed after 2 years and 20k miles. I believe the shindegen sh775 is the same way (Series and happy at low revs, but not designed for high RPMs). The suzuki DL1000/Vstrom1000 rr that you mentioned, the shindengen SH847, is the rr to get these days, 50A rated (like the FH020), series and High RPM capable. The SH775 was only rated for 30A.

 

12 hours ago, Ridnout said:

ANYWAY, THAT WAS MY RANT.  With these bikes, I betcha a clean and dry bike is a better bike!  Mine is a commuter, soooo we need a simple fix.  I sure like the idea of a series regulator; I'd just love to see a novel switcher out there.

 

Take care.  Oh yes I'm a budding Power Systems Engineer, not a seasoned veteran and don't know it all at all.  My specialty at them moment, which isn't saying much, is novel buck boost converters, a kind of switching converter.

 

Look into the SH847 kit from Roadstercycle.com
Welcome aboard, I am a ME/ Electrical Utility Engineer (Distribution).:beer:

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Hey Candy, I went to see what was offered but had promised to do the master's program instead of taking the co-op at distribution here.  I've been kicking myself ever since.  As far as Generation, Transmission, & Distribution, distribution is the place I'd like to be, the place I should have taken the job.  Are you an ME that works for a utility or a true EE?  Anyway, transmission & generation folk are the super brainy people.  I don't think I'd be a great fit there, though many of my classmates work for them.

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On 4/17/2017 at 2:52 PM, Ridnout said:

Hey Candy, I went to see what was offered but had promised to do the master's program instead of taking the co-op at distribution here.  I've been kicking myself ever since.  As far as Generation, Transmission, & Distribution, distribution is the place I'd like to be, the place I should have taken the job.  Are you an ME that works for a utility or a true EE?  Anyway, transmission & generation folk are the super brainy people.  I don't think I'd be a great fit there, though many of my classmates work for them.


I am an ME that works as a contractor for a utility (Pretend EE lol). My project has distribution and transmission contracts with a few big electric company's, I mainly deal with Overhead and Underground 13kv/23kv distribution, I may get some transmission work sometime in the future, but eventually I want to be a field engineer.

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