Traveller Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Hey guys, sorry if I'm :beatdeadhorse: here but I was reading up this thread about the Ducati/Gen4 rebirth and I came across this post by Trace which got me thinking. An overall suggestion: Unless you're already a Honda or VFR guy and are aware of Honda's assorted chronic electrical ( or other) gremlins, you might want to carefully review some of the threads in the electrical (or other) sections and eliminate those problems while the bike is in a zilion pieces. That subframe weldment photo of yours that shows the big white 3-wire stator/RR connector got me to thinking about this. You DO know about the big white 3-wire connector meltdown problems, don't you? :pissed: Maybe some folks will chime in with other common problems for this generation VFR. Do the Gen4s have many electrical issues? I've had my '96 VFR now for 3 years and had absolutely zero problems regarding its electrical system. Even if I leave the bike parked for 2 months she fires right up with no problems and when on the road she keeps voltage more or less over 13.5v. It is only when I am stationary with headlights on, alarms, etc that the voltage sometimes drops below 12v. BTW the r/r plug seemed quite alright to me the couple of times I removed the back panels, so what is this about a meltdown? I know many people here swear by the "VFRness" and I don't really know much about it except that it is an upgraded wiring loom? As I am scheduling my bike to go in for a good overhaul soon would you recommend to get this mod done? Is this loom plug and play? What would the benefits be? As I don't have any electrical issues at the moment it seems a tad unnecessary but I trust your judgement and experience, and definitely better safe than sorry. :fing02: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted March 5, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted March 5, 2011 I rode my 4th gen for the first 9 years without a VFRness and had no problems. I did add a heatsink from day one(chopped Pentium2 heatsink :biggrin: )All the other wiring+plug stayed in good nick. *** Added June 2013: for those that unplugged all the wires and forgot to that note :goofy: VFRDness red goes bottom left, where the red/white used to be But with reading other 4th gens did suffer melting, I opted for the "better safe than sorry approach" :fing02: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squamishvfr Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 You need to keep the blade connectors clean and tight, after that it's about the grounds, clean and tight!! I'm not totally familiar with the VFRness, but essentially I think he's trying to do the work for you and idiot proof the process for the less skilled people. If you are not good with electrical, get one, if you are good with electrical then scrutinize the circuit and repair accordingly. For my Gen 5 I did go the extra step to buy the latest and greatest OEM regulator and added a datel voltmeter as suggested. The biggest issue that I see is heat buildup at the connectors because they get loose, the heat wicks into the reg (if the connector is integral to the reg)and takes out the diodes. Hope this helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monk Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 I guessing the wire gage is thicker as well as better connections. But as Dutchy said, wouldn't hurt to get bigger fins........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Ryanme17 Posted March 6, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted March 6, 2011 I'm not sure about fourth gens, but on 6th gens, the VFRNess provides a direct path from the battery to the R/R. It replaces the crappy monitor wire. It is a great product made with good wiring and connectors for a good price (I sourced out all the pieces to try and make one myself once and it was about the same as he sells them for!) It does not replace the stock wiring in the sense that you don't remove a wiring harness when you put it in. Tightwad could explain better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Ryanme17 Posted March 6, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted March 6, 2011 Looks like I was wrong! There's an explanation of everything it does on his website. From the site (www.wiremybike.com): Newly revised, this harness is now 100% plug and play. VFRness for 1990-1997 VFR. This item, similar to the well known VFRNess from the 5th and 6th Generation bikes helps resolves charging issues common with the VFR associated with poor wiring. It features 12 gauge wires from R/R to stator plug, with new plug installed 10 gauge Positive wire from R/R to new Fuse Connector (20 amp fuse installed) 12 gauge wire for starter relay wire replacement. 10 gauge ground wire, 18" long to directly connect to battery. Poor grounding causes excess heat and is the main killer of R/R's in these years. New R/R connector to replace OEM connector. This hard to find part is the most costly portion of the harness. Also included is a Starter Relay repair kit. Although not a direct replacement(it doesn't cover the fuse anymore), this is the perfect way to kill 2 birds with 1 stone....repair the R/R wiring and the Starter Relay wiring at the same time! 4" wires (green, yellow, red) are included with butt connectors and heat shrink to repair the original starter relay wires(if needed). These wires come with the butt connectors soldered to one end already. Solder is also included. All told this is the inclusive kit to repair all aspects of your charging systems wiring! The starter relay plug is not pictured but is included...see the Starter Relay kit for an example of the plug. If you're in doubt about any aspect of your charging system, I would recommend it--even if only for piece of mind. It really is a well-made product of top-quality components. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightwad Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 The 90-97 VFRness is different from the 98 and newer models as it doesn't duplicate the path from R/R to battery and ground. The reason for this is partially space, but mostly the R/R design. While I have the female connector that would allow me to create a duplicate path version, it doesn't make much sense as the 90-97 is fairly straightforward already. With the 90-97 models, watch out for the starter relay plug that Dutchy linked a picture of...it loves to meltdown on you! The 90-97 VFRness is probably the second highest in demand, mostly due to the stupid R/R they opted to use. If I were to purchase a 90-97 VFR I would upgrade the R/R to a 98-99 MOSFET version. This would provide a bigger buffer between what the R/R can handle and what the Stator provides for max charge, as well as having better cooling surface and a more fixable design (connector not molded into the body). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveller Posted March 12, 2011 Author Share Posted March 12, 2011 The 90-97 VFRness is different from the 98 and newer models as it doesn't duplicate the path from R/R to battery and ground. The reason for this is partially space, but mostly the R/R design. While I have the female connector that would allow me to create a duplicate path version, it doesn't make much sense as the 90-97 is fairly straightforward already. With the 90-97 models, watch out for the starter relay plug that Dutchy linked a picture of...it loves to meltdown on you! I must admit I am struggling a bit to follow this bit, as I've never really dealt with bike electrics before, but I think I got the gist of it. The 90-97 VFRness is probably the second highest in demand, mostly due to the stupid R/R they opted to use. If I were to purchase a 90-97 VFR I would upgrade the R/R to a 98-99 MOSFET version. This would provide a bigger buffer between what the R/R can handle and what the Stator provides for max charge, as well as having better cooling surface and a more fixable design (connector not molded into the body). Sooo... If I get a 98-99 r/r what is the VFRness I would need to use then? Gen4 or Gen5? Is the 98-99 r/r the same as the following years? How would I identify it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveller Posted March 12, 2011 Author Share Posted March 12, 2011 I just had a look at my regulator and it seems that it has been modified! As I imported the bike from Germany I knew that the previous (very caring!) owner had done some small mods, but I had never really noticed this: It looks like a standard r/r stuck to a big cooler? Any comments? If I upgrade the r/r should I keep the cooler or ditch it altogether? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted March 12, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted March 12, 2011 That is indeed the original r/r. OEM it comes bolted onto the sub frame (see my post earlier), here a large heatsink was modded in between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer robwalmsley Posted March 12, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted March 12, 2011 hi there traveller,im on my 3rd r/r,what goes wrong is the r/r packs up and heat build up melts wiring and connectors,your running the oem r/r on standard wiring,volts for normal running is 14/15 at 5000 revs when volts start dropping ,heat for home.wet weather,jet washing vibration weakens the connections,wd oil /electric grease helps.vfrharness with finned r/r is an up grade,to oem wiring,but r/rs are very weak because of heat generated.ive done different up grade vfrness with r/ runder the seat with heat sink under the mudguard.i did a post in january. / Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightwad Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 If you need to convert, shoot me an email via my site (or this one) and I can make arrangements. How the conversion is done depends on where you mount the R/R....some mount up front, others like Rob mount theirs under the seat. This changes the wire length needed, so I custom make the harness to your specifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveller Posted March 13, 2011 Author Share Posted March 13, 2011 If you need to convert, shoot me an email via my site (or this one) and I can make arrangements. How the conversion is done depends on where you mount the R/R....some mount up front, others like Rob mount theirs under the seat. This changes the wire length needed, so I custom make the harness to your specifications. I think the r/r will stay put in the original place intended by Honda. After I get an upgraded r/r of a 99-02 VFR, I will def. get in touch with you regarding the VFRness. Cheers for the good advice mate and keep up the good work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightwad Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 If you need to convert, shoot me an email via my site (or this one) and I can make arrangements. How the conversion is done depends on where you mount the R/R....some mount up front, others like Rob mount theirs under the seat. This changes the wire length needed, so I custom make the harness to your specifications. I think the r/r will stay put in the original place intended by Honda. After I get an upgraded r/r of a 99-02 VFR, I will def. get in touch with you regarding the VFRness. Cheers for the good advice mate and keep up the good work. 98-99 is one model, and 2000 and up are different. Go with a 98-99 if you have to buy one, as the stator connector for the 2000+ R/R is significantly more expensive. I wouldn't suggest upgrading unless you need a new R/R, and then I wouldn't buy a used one...I would go for the new MOSFET style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveller Posted March 20, 2011 Author Share Posted March 20, 2011 I've been following up on the topic of r/r lately. Tightwad your help is gratefully received on this one mate; so here is the whole picture at this point, so you can advise me better. - When on the road, voltage is fluctuating constantly from about 12.8 to 13.8 @ a steady 4,000-5,000 RPM. - Sometimes this reading will dip momentarily below 12v. I have seen 10v or even less. It goes there for just one second and comes back up again, but there is no effect on the bike's systems. - On idle with all lights off reading is ~12.5-13.5v. If I turn on all lights & power my GPS this can fall below 12 to maybe around 11v. The dash lights are noticeably dimmer at that point. If I rev the engine the voltage goes back up. - The battery is a YASA unit which I got new about 2 years ago. - I've yet to experience an issue with the bike not starting or anything. - Looking at the above photo of my r/r I notice that the plug is a bit yellow. I haven't really checked the connectors but my guess is that they are going a bit south. Regarding a new r/r I have 3 options: - Rick's r/r for a VFR 800 98-99. - Upgraded Rick's r/r for my gen4 (as seen on your website) - R/r from a Yamaha R1. Which of the 3 is the best option for a bit more juice & stability? You mentioned that there are no problems with either Rick's models so far but I figure I might as well go for the best option while I'm at it. I will study the original gen4 vfrness report and come back again. Many thanks for all the info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Ryanme17 Posted March 20, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted March 20, 2011 Regarding a new r/r I have 3 options: - Rick's r/r for a VFR 800 98-99. - Upgraded Rick's r/r for my gen4 (as seen on your website) - R/r from a Yamaha R1. Can't you buy an R/R from Tightwad at wiremybike.com? They are the mosfet style, well priced, and you know they will actually ship within a reasonable time (I've heard stories about Rick's R/R's being on backorder for ages). I've bought stuff on wiremybike.com before and would much, much rather buy from there than anywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveller Posted March 20, 2011 Author Share Posted March 20, 2011 Can't you buy an R/R from Tightwad at wiremybike.com? They are the mosfet style, well priced, and you know they will actually ship within a reasonable time (I've heard stories about Rick's R/R's being on backorder for ages). I've bought stuff on wiremybike.com before and would much, much rather buy from there than anywhere else. Definitely! Tightwad is a great guy, knows his stuff extremely well and I'd much rather get stuff from someone who I trust than an unknown merchant off the web. Besides, I am leaning towards getting an uprated VFR r/r so getting the whole lot from Tightwad's shop seems to be the best bet. I just need to know whether the 98-99 bigger r/r is a better bet than the uprated gen4 r/r and we'll be set to go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightwad Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Can't you buy an R/R from Tightwad at wiremybike.com? They are the mosfet style, well priced, and you know they will actually ship within a reasonable time (I've heard stories about Rick's R/R's being on backorder for ages). I've bought stuff on wiremybike.com before and would much, much rather buy from there than anywhere else. Definitely! Tightwad is a great guy, knows his stuff extremely well and I'd much rather get stuff from someone who I trust than an unknown merchant off the web. Besides, I am leaning towards getting an uprated VFR r/r so getting the whole lot from Tightwad's shop seems to be the best bet. I just need to know whether the 98-99 bigger r/r is a better bet than the uprated gen4 r/r and we'll be set to go! I would go with the 98-99 R/R, with a harness made to fit it. Not a problem, just shoot me an email from my site and we can be sure I send you the right parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 My VFR left me stranded today. Bummer. First of five bikes in twelve years that let me down. Ran fine until I shut her down after about a half an hour ride, then totally dead electrical system. Started right up with a jump but then wouldn't even idle after disconnecting the jumper cables... had to have it trucked back home. Guess I'll be needing some of those electrical parts too. Any hints on what to check first? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Just charged the battery and found it not as dead as I thought. Now with the battery charged, there is still no juice getting to the ignition system. I turn the key and nothing - no lights, no clicks, no starter, horn, nothing. Battery terminals very clean and tight. When it first died on me earlier today it went out slowly - weaker and weaker and then nothing over a minute or two, just like a dead battery would behave. Anyone have any ideas where to start looking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightwad Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 Just charged the battery and found it not as dead as I thought. Now with the battery charged, there is still no juice getting to the ignition system. I turn the key and nothing - no lights, no clicks, no starter, horn, nothing. Battery terminals very clean and tight. When it first died on me earlier today it went out slowly - weaker and weaker and then nothing over a minute or two, just like a dead battery would behave. Anyone have any ideas where to start looking? Are you still fighting this? I would double check the battery...it could read as if it is charged, but check the voltage with the key on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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