Member Contributer KevCarver Posted April 21, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted April 21, 2011 Done anything on this project lately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kostritzer Posted April 21, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 21, 2011 Done anything on this project lately? Unfortunately no. Been too busy working on my NC30 project lately, but that's sort of done now. Gonna be tough squeezing in working on the 800 when the weather is so nice! The other issue is that money that could be spent on this project can go to trackdays.... Next step for the VFR wil be to fabricate and weld a link onto the swingarm for the VFR linkage to mount to. At that point I should probably start looking for a running wrecked 5th gen to cannibalize. BTW, Justin got the forks he bought from you re-valved and re-sprung, so we should start installing the F4i front end on his(my old) 5th gen this weekend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted April 21, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted April 21, 2011 Done anything on this project lately? Unfortunately no. Been too busy working on my NC30 project lately, but that's sort of done now. Gonna be tough squeezing in working on the 800 when the weather is so nice! The other issue is that money that could be spent on this project can go to trackdays.... Next step for the VFR wil be to fabricate and weld a link onto the swingarm for the VFR linkage to mount to. At that point I should probably start looking for a running wrecked 5th gen to cannibalize. BTW, Justin got the forks he bought from you re-valved and re-sprung, so we should start installing the F4i front end on his(my old) 5th gen this weekend! I'll be keeping an eye out for progress reports on both builds. I'm sure the F4i forks will work great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kostritzer Posted April 25, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 25, 2011 Done anything on this project lately? Unfortunately no. Been too busy working on my NC30 project lately, but that's sort of done now. Gonna be tough squeezing in working on the 800 when the weather is so nice! The other issue is that money that could be spent on this project can go to trackdays.... Next step for the VFR wil be to fabricate and weld a link onto the swingarm for the VFR linkage to mount to. At that point I should probably start looking for a running wrecked 5th gen to cannibalize. BTW, Justin got the forks he bought from you re-valved and re-sprung, so we should start installing the F4i front end on his(my old) 5th gen this weekend! I'll be keeping an eye out for progress reports on both builds. I'm sure the F4i forks will work great! F4i conversion went smooth as a whistle. He ended up using the VTEC triples, F4i forks, F4i clip ons and VFR front axle/wheel/spacers/rotors. We also installed a complete RC51 front brake setup. Turns out the original lower triple and forks were considerably bent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kostritzer Posted April 25, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 25, 2011 Justin is a mechanical engineer, and his future father in law runs a very nice machine shop, so between the two of them I should have the swing arm link figured out here pretty quickly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Updates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Not much of an update, but I've machined the spacers for the swing arm pivot, and aligned the wheels. Hey all, Best Thread ever! I have signed up just so I can join in. I have similar plans with my Gen5, with USD forks/radial mount calipers for the front and I was looking at conventional, most likely either CBR954 or CBR600RR(3,4,5) swingarms. Issues/considerations at Front-end: The driver is to get stiffer forks and better brakes. Biggest issue I see at the front-end, As is well discussed, is the fork offset which seems to be unusually large on the VFR800's, the way I see it to keep a short trail they ran a large rake angle (anybody care to comment why they went this way???) I'd actually like to keep this setup if possible as the VFR geometry is pretty sweet IMO. Issues/considerations at Rear-end: Swingarms from RC51, CBR929, 954 and 600RR3-5 seem like they'd need the least work (similar setup, pivot bolt through engine cases). I need to book a trip out to a wrecker armed with a tape measure and verniers and start measuring everything up; I'd be very interested in swingarm lengths, pivot inner and outer dimensions, and weights of course. Again, a few people have commented that the SSSA is a bit of a porker, so I'd be keen to see how much weight can be spared. I will definately be weighing these components when I embark on this (targeting winter, starting to source parts already). Once more loving what you're doing, and am dead-keen to get into it myself! (But I have to make the most of a British summer first!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kostritzer Posted May 29, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted May 29, 2011 Not much of an update, but I've machined the spacers for the swing arm pivot, and aligned the wheels. Hey all, Best Thread ever! I have signed up just so I can join in. I have similar plans with my Gen5, with USD forks/radial mount calipers for the front and I was looking at conventional, most likely either CBR954 or CBR600RR(3,4,5) swingarms. Issues/considerations at Front-end: The driver is to get stiffer forks and better brakes. Biggest issue I see at the front-end, As is well discussed, is the fork offset which seems to be unusually large on the VFR800's, the way I see it to keep a short trail they ran a large rake angle (anybody care to comment why they went this way???) I'd actually like to keep this setup if possible as the VFR geometry is pretty sweet IMO. Issues/considerations at Rear-end: Swingarms from RC51, CBR929, 954 and 600RR3-5 seem like they'd need the least work (similar setup, pivot bolt through engine cases). I need to book a trip out to a wrecker armed with a tape measure and verniers and start measuring everything up; I'd be very interested in swingarm lengths, pivot inner and outer dimensions, and weights of course. Again, a few people have commented that the SSSA is a bit of a porker, so I'd be keen to see how much weight can be spared. I will definately be weighing these components when I embark on this (targeting winter, starting to source parts already). Once more loving what you're doing, and am dead-keen to get into it myself! (But I have to make the most of a British summer first!) I've gone back and forth on the swingarm for this bike. I have an 05 600RR swing arm that I was looking into fitting, but I think its a bit too long compared to the SP2 swing arm which is maybe an inch longer than the 800 swing arm. It is also quite a bit narrower than the VFR engine case pivot point, so you'd have to get creative there. One nice thing about it is that besides the pivot, the only other thing you would need to adapt it it the dogbone link, since the shock is completely contained in the swingarm. I think the main reason I decided to go with the SP2 swinger is the fact that its gotta be one of the best looking arms I've seen(when cleaned up!) If you need any dimensions on either arm, let me know! I actually have the bike strapped to my trailer as I type this. Gonna take it down to my friends shop so he can have a look at the swingarm to decide the best way to modify it for the VFR linkage. Also looking into buying a running 5th gen donor bike to speed up the project. There are a couple of ratty 6th gens on CL local to me at the moment, but I really want to hold out for the gear driven whine from heaven! Just sold my pretty NC30 road bike and am looking into buying a friends NC30 track bike, so that may slow down the project a little bit if I get my hands on that! I want to be able to switch back and forth from 360 and 180 degree V4 music! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 I've gone back and forth on the swingarm for this bike. I have an 05 600RR swing arm that I was looking into fitting, but I think its a bit too long compared to the SP2 swing arm which is maybe an inch longer than the 800 swing arm. It is also quite a bit narrower than the VFR engine case pivot point, so you'd have to get creative there. One nice thing about it is that besides the pivot, the only other thing you would need to adapt it it the dogbone link, since the shock is completely contained in the swingarm. I think the main reason I decided to go with the SP2 swinger is the fact that its gotta be one of the best looking arms I've seen(when cleaned up!) If you need any dimensions on either arm, let me know! I actually have the bike strapped to my trailer as I type this. Gonna take it down to my friends shop so he can have a look at the swingarm to decide the best way to modify it for the VFR linkage. Also looking into buying a running 5th gen donor bike to speed up the project. There are a couple of ratty 6th gens on CL local to me at the moment, but I really want to hold out for the gear driven whine from heaven! Just sold my pretty NC30 road bike and am looking into buying a friends NC30 track bike, so that may slow down the project a little bit if I get my hands on that! I want to be able to switch back and forth from 360 and 180 degree V4 music! OK great to know, I almost wanted to buy a CBR6-RR swingarm, glad I didn't now. But I've now found one off a CBR954 which I should get in a couple of days, and I'll intend to use a shock off the same, I see some people already run these on the standard VFR800 rear ends. It'd still be interesting to compare some measurements against the RC51 though, such as inner and outer pivot point widths, and pivot/rear axle length (which if I recall is already written further up this thread?) and weight. When I get the CBR954 swingarm I'll do the same. Interestingly, I chose the 954 arm for the same reason you chose the RC51; it looks the best! Regarding the CBR600 (and hence CBR1000) swingarm design incorporating the top shock mount, I've thought about this and was a bit worried that passing all the loads of rear wheel movement solely through the engine cases could be introducing a bit more stress than the engine cases were designed for, without frame spars... I have realised one minor problem common to both RC51 and 954 swingarms, they don't allow any room for the rear exhaust headers, this would have been nicely provided with the late model CBR-RR swingarms having a section removed to pass the under-seat exhaust mid section. Have you planned any good solutions for this?? As for rear wheel, love the look of the RC51 five-spoker, so hopefully I'll be able to make that work with the CBR swingarm. We'll see... Gear-drive, IMO, is at least as aurally important as having the Vee in the first place!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kostritzer Posted May 31, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted May 31, 2011 I have realised one minor problem common to both RC51 and 954 swingarms, they don't allow any room for the rear exhaust headers, this would have been nicely provided with the late model CBR-RR swingarms having a section removed to pass the under-seat exhaust mid section. Have you planned any good solutions for this?? As for rear wheel, love the look of the RC51 five-spoker, so hopefully I'll be able to make that work with the CBR swingarm. We'll see... Well, on the SP2 there is a space on the right side of the swing arm for an exhaust actually, not much, but something. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it I guess! As for the SP2 wheels on a CBR swinger, I've heard they're a straight swap in the rear. Heres a Durbahn beauty for an example of the exhaust routing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kostritzer Posted June 1, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 1, 2011 I've been looking at those 954 swingarms, looks like they'd be an almost direct fit! Same style linkage as the VFR, and similar length and spacing compared to the SP2 arm, hmmmm..... The only issue I see with it is the lack of space on the right hand side for the exhaust. Well, I took the bike down to the machinist this weekend to get his advice. He said it won't be a problem to CNC a lug to weld to the bottom of the swingarm. Now I just have to get my engineer friend to take some final measurements and draw it up in solidworks for me! Anyone in SoCal have a good running sub $1500 5th gen they'd like to sell me? I'm thinking about going to a 5th gen main frame as there is a class up in the SF bay area called "super dinosaur" that allows bikes 99 and under to run competitively, but thats just a pipe dream at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 OK, I've received the CBR954 swingarm. I made some measurements: LENGTH 540-565mm (centre of swingarm pivot to centre of rear axle, accounting for 25mm rear axle movement) WIDTH1 190mm (measured between pivots to account for crankcase width) WIDTH2 290mm (measured outside of pivots, for lower brace/footpeg mounts) SHOCK LINKAGE MOUNT WIDTH 39mm (identical to the VFR800 mount) Means I will need to fit spacers between the swingarm and cases, I couldn't get a good measurement, but the cases are about 160mm wide I think. Anyone know what the swingarm pivot bolt diameter is? It's about 24mm on the 954. I will definitely have issues with the rear headers, they have nowhere to go at the moment. I'm thinking about a CBR1000RR swingarm as well, it has a beautiful cut-out for the tail-mount exhaust, but the design is quite different, with a continuous pivot tube. But the bearing seats look pretty simple and I think this could be made to work, it would also mean the rear pivot could be cut out to fit straight around the VFR engine cases, eliminating the need for extra spacers. Hmmm, too many options! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kostritzer Posted June 3, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 3, 2011 OK, I've received the CBR954 swingarm. I made some measurements: LENGTH 540-565mm (centre of swingarm pivot to centre of rear axle, accounting for 25mm rear axle movement) WIDTH1 190mm (measured between pivots to account for crankcase width) WIDTH2 290mm (measured outside of pivots, for lower brace/footpeg mounts) SHOCK LINKAGE MOUNT WIDTH 39mm (identical to the VFR800 mount) Means I will need to fit spacers between the swingarm and cases, I couldn't get a good measurement, but the cases are about 160mm wide I think. Anyone know what the swingarm pivot bolt diameter is? It's about 24mm on the 954. I will definitely have issues with the rear headers, they have nowhere to go at the moment. I'm thinking about a CBR1000RR swingarm as well, it has a beautiful cut-out for the tail-mount exhaust, but the design is quite different, with a continuous pivot tube. But the bearing seats look pretty simple and I think this could be made to work, it would also mean the rear pivot could be cut out to fit straight around the VFR engine cases, eliminating the need for extra spacers. Hmmm, too many options! Those measurements seem to be pretty close to what these guys are getting over on the superhawk (firehawk to you brits?) site. Here's a link just for reference http://www.superhawkforum.com/forums/technical-discussion-28/swingarm-measurements-comparisons-17027/ I think I'm gonna stick with the SP2 swing arm for now since its about 75% figured out, and I really like the look. Besides, if you're doing the 954 arm then every one will benefit from two different conversion threads right? As far as I remember, the VFR pivot bolt diameter is 20mm, thats one of the reasons I went with the SP2 arm as they use the same diameter pivot bolt. The SP1 uses the larger 25mm pivot, and I assume the 954 does as well. You should be able to remove the spacers in the engine case of the VFR and have them opened up to 25mm ID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Those measurements seem to be pretty close to what these guys are getting over on the superhawk (firehawk to you brits?) site. Here's a link just for reference http://www.superhawkforum.com/forums/technical-discussion-28/swingarm-measurements-comparisons-17027/ I think I'm gonna stick with the SP2 swing arm for now since its about 75% figured out, and I really like the look. Besides, if you're doing the 954 arm then every one will benefit from two different conversion threads right? As far as I remember, the VFR pivot bolt diameter is 20mm, thats one of the reasons I went with the SP2 arm as they use the same diameter pivot bolt. The SP1 uses the larger 25mm pivot, and I assume the 954 does as well. You should be able to remove the spacers in the engine case of the VFR and have them opened up to 25mm ID. Ahh, I never thought about checking on superhawk forums... THanks for the Spacer idea, sounds alot easier than having new spacers machined to suit the VFR bolt... Just to clarify, I didn't want to change your plans, I think they're awesome! And, I agree with you totally, we're taking two paths to the same solutions, gives others more options if they want to do the same. But Anyway, if I was intending to copy you, what'd be the point in me posting?! What I would be interested in though is weights; if you get your swingarm back, can you weigh it? I'll do the same as soon as I find somewhere that sells scales... We just moved to the UK (midlands) and some things are rather rare here (Errm, either that or we are clueless...) At the moment this includes bathroom scales and Methylated Spirits... Random! Luckily, cheap ebay bike parts and machine shops are in great abundance!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kostritzer Posted June 4, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 4, 2011 I'll definitely try to weigh the arm the next time I have it off. Actually, I need to remove it soon to mill the old lugs off so we can take measurements for the new lug. Wish I had the old VFR swingarm to weigh for comparison! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted June 4, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted June 4, 2011 I'll definitely try to weigh the arm the next time I have it off. Actually, I need to remove it soon to mill the old lugs off so we can take measurements for the new lug. Wish I had the old VFR swingarm to weigh for comparison! Thats the magic number I am curoius about. 6th gen is x pounds, 5th gen is x pounds...... Weight drop with RC51 arm is .....x. - I'm just curious what a tail job and swing arm swap would drop xx pounds. It would be interesting how reasonably far a streetable 5th gen could get without going crazy with carbon fibre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kostritzer Posted June 4, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 4, 2011 I'll definitely try to weigh the arm the next time I have it off. Actually, I need to remove it soon to mill the old lugs off so we can take measurements for the new lug. Wish I had the old VFR swingarm to weigh for comparison! Thats the magic number I am curoius about. 6th gen is x pounds, 5th gen is x pounds...... Weight drop with RC51 arm is .....x. - I'm just curious what a tail job and swing arm swap would drop xx pounds. It would be interesting how reasonably far a streetable 5th gen could get without going crazy with carbon fibre. I think the main problem the VFR has with weight is its engine, so you really have to take weight off everywhere to make a big difference. Of course with a 5th and 6th gen, the main frame is pretty light as its minimal. Of course I'd trade a bit of weight for some rigidity up near the front! If you compare a 5th/6th gen frame to a true RR superbike frame, even an older one like the RC45, the whole front structure is very open around the front cylinder head, its not braced or attached to the head in any way. Might make using full race slicks and stiff suspension a bit interesting on the track, we shall see! I think a street VFR with lots of lightweight mods should be able to get down to the low 400's or so, would definitely make mincemeat of most 600's if not a lot of liter bikes if set up properly and ridden well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer VFR Capt.Bob Posted June 5, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted June 5, 2011 The motor is the soul of this bike. I'm interested in going with a RC46 replica at some point. Haven't taken my new to me CBR954 to the track yet but I do miss that velvety smooth V four motor when I'm riding canyons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kostritzer Posted June 5, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 5, 2011 The motor is the soul of this bike. I'm interested in going with a RC46 replica at some point. Haven't taken my new to me CBR954 to the track yet but I do miss that velvety smooth V four motor when I'm riding canyons. 100% agree with you! If the bike is at least as good as a trick 954 track bike with a V4 engine for a heart I'll be damn happy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vguy Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 I've been searching for a track bike for a few months. CBR600, SV650, Ninja 650R, even a 2008+ Ninja 250R. Meanwhile, I have a perfectly good 5th gen VFR800 sitting in my garage gathering dust. It's stock with the exception of a Jardine slip-on and a Power Commander. I can only imagine how good it would sound (to me) charging down the main straight at Willow Springs. Thanks to this thread I am inspired to get this fat-boy 800 on a diet with some suspension mods and "run what I got." I'll be following the advise, ideas and goings-on here. Thanks. Something like this, maybe: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kostritzer Posted June 5, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 5, 2011 I've been searching for a track bike for a few months. CBR600, SV650, Ninja 650R, even a 2008+ Ninja 250R. Meanwhile, I have a perfectly good 5th gen VFR800 sitting in my garage gathering dust. It's stock with the exception of a Jardine slip-on and a Power Commander. I can only imagine how good it would sound (to me) charging down the main straight at Willow Springs. Thanks to this thread I am inspired to get this fat-boy 800 on a diet with some suspension mods and "run what I got." I'll be following the advise, ideas and goings-on here. Thanks. Awesome, pretty soon we'll have to start a whole new section on VFRD for VFR track bikes! If you change your mind and want to sell her cheap I could use a donor for my project! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kostritzer Posted June 5, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 5, 2011 Anyone in So Cal have an RC51 fuel tank I could borrow for mock up purposes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 I'll definitely try to weigh the arm the next time I have it off. Actually, I need to remove it soon to mill the old lugs off so we can take measurements for the new lug. Wish I had the old VFR swingarm to weigh for comparison! I'm happy to weigh the original Gen5 swingarm, as soon as it comes out. To do this properly, it'd be worth weighing the whole assembly; wheel, axle, caliper, etc - not just swingarm. I can do this with the original stuff and will post it once I've bought a damn bathroom scale! I've thought of a possible solution for the exhaust, I could run a 2x 2-1 system. The idea came to me while I was watching MotoGP! All the V4's run the same system, I'm sure for packaging reasons as well. Problem is, I don't know much (yet) about exhaust design, with respect to runner lengths and diameters, etc. I can use diameters from the standard exhaust as a starting point (obviously lengths will change) and go from there... Positives: Solves packaging problems, Nobody (outside of MotoGP) has one, and most importantly, It'll look cool! Negatives; trying to prevent torque dips will be harder, and obviously the fab-work (but that's arguably a positive anyway!) Anyone know anything about exhaust design, or could direct me to some decent texts??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted June 12, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted June 12, 2011 Someone get ahold of CornerCarver, I believe he's got an '01 swingarm laying around to weigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted June 12, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted June 12, 2011 Anyone in So Cal have an RC51 fuel tank I could borrow for mock up purposes? Have you seen one? The airbox is so massive that they had to extend the lower back portion of the tank under the seat a little bit in order to get some more fuel in there. Love to loan you mine, but cross country shipping would be a bit inconvenient. Try Speedzilla Forum for a loaner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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