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That famous burnt-up white RR-Stator connector...


Trace

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There have been numerous threads here about stator and RR and wiring harness problems. Without a doubt the 5th and 6th Gen bikes have their issues in that regard, and Tightwad has done some great work to fix those problems. And yet we still have posts about this connector melting down. This was all discussed in great detail in this post by Soichiro:

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/62912-stator-rr-wires-connector-fried/page__pid__749019#entry749019

In that post were lots of pictures like this:

post-4707-0-68866500-1292556851_thumb.jp

post-4707-0-28964500-1292557024_thumb.jp

And recently we saw something about an RC45 almost burning to the ground, and BusyLittle was surprised to see his charging connector (not the RR one) getting all "melty".

post-4707-0-15203800-1292555370_thumb.jp

In that post, I stated that the reason the connector melts is the damn connector's fault, not the RR or the stator. And here's the proof:

Look at this pic. A nice clean normal-looking terminal from my 5th Gen's removed RR conncector---

terminal1.jpg

Now I'll pick it up and tilt it just a bit---

terminal2.jpg

And lookee what happens. It falls apart from gravity only. What a GREAT electrical connection, huh?

terminal3.jpg

The male blade of the terminal is totally loose in the female socket. So, picture that poor metal-to-metal connection wobbling around inside the white connector that you THINK is good and tight because you heard the connector snap together with a click. Nope....that loose terminal is arcing away with all that stator current going through it all the time. And the arcing causes more oxidation, which raises the resistance....which causes critical heat and the damn thing melts.

So.....as was discussed in that Soichiro thread, it's a real smart move to eliminate these connectors with the crappy terminals and either make your own insulated terminal splices (and toss that white connector); hardwire, solder, and heatshrink 'em; or use one of Tightwad's products. DO IT NOW!! :fing02:

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And when I proclaim that I've "found the root cause" like I'm some big research scientist or something, I'm making the assumption that in the 5 years I've been here where I've heard a dozen reasons for RR/Stator problems....I personally have never heard anyone zero-in on this loose connector issue. It's always been "my connector burned up, damn junk Honda RR, etc.".

But maybe I missed a discussion about the looseness of these terminals, or maybe the reason that Tightwad made his 6-post connector available in the first place is because HE discovered the crappy-ness of the terminals, so perhaps I'm only confirming (with visual proof!) that the terminals themselves can be loose-as-a-goose inside those plastic connectors. I'm sure I'm not the first member to figure this out....but I thought that showing that gravity wins might convince everyone to fix the problem pronto!

Also---I think bikes that use synthetic oil instead of dino oil are more susceptible to this problem. :laughing6-hehe:

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There have been numerous threads here about stator and RR and wiring harness problems. Without a doubt the 5th and 6th Gen bikes have their issues in that regard, and Tightwad has done some great work to fix those problems. And yet we still have posts about this connector melting down. This was all discussed in great detail in this post by Soichiro:

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/62912-stator-rr-wires-connector-fried/page__pid__749019#entry749019

/snip

The male blade of the terminal is totally loose in the female socket. So, picture that poor metal-to-metal connection wobbling around inside the white connector that you THINK is good and tight because you heard the connector snap together with a click. Nope....that loose terminal is arcing away with all that stator current going through it all the time. And the arcing causes more oxidation, which raises the resistance....which causes critical heat and the damn thing melts.

So.....as was discussed in that Soichiro thread, it's a real smart move to eliminate these connectors with the crappy terminals and either make your own insulated terminal splices (and toss that white connector); hardwire, solder, and heatshrink 'em; or use one of Tightwad's products. DO IT NOW!! :fing02:

Excellent!, At last, after thousands of dead RRs, the faulty illudium Q-36 spade connector is located!.

Those modulator failures were making me angry!

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  • Member Contributer

umm wasn't this discussed before ??

a few years ago? i mean how many connection blocks have been melted?? few 100,000?

no offence, i agree 90%.. the other part is bad grounding on the bike. :fing02:

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OMG someone give this man a piece of paper...

errr, I mean an engineering degree.

:laughing6-hehe:

NO NEED....per the other string, you can call ANYONE an engineer :laughing6-hehe:

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  • Member Contributer

Trace,

Thanks for the info :fing02:

Usually, I wait until the issue bites me in the arse to fix it. This time I'll be proactive. :blush:

As for the credit...

I've always thought that connectors were crap, so perhaps the credit should go to me. :owned:

Seriously though, if connectors were good, then we would see a more or less even occurrence of burnt connectors and wires. And I've never heard of burnt RR wires.

I'll just solder the suckers together.

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I'll buy the connector connection issue as the cause of the melted connectors, but I believe the failed R/R issue is separate and unrelated. The charging system puts a lot of juice through an electronic component that's poorly located, and perhaps inadequately wired to charge the system/battery (wires too small, creating resistance and more heat), along with apparent inadequate grounding. The R/R gets/stays hot and dies an early death.

I believe the system fix includes the connector correction, perhaps a series regulator in place of the shunt R/R (this is untested here), bigger charging wires from the R/R to battery and system, and better grounds. Added insurance might be larger wires from stator to R/R.

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I've always thought that connectors were crap, so perhaps the credit should go to me. :owned:

Hahaa, that was dang funny. But sorry......you gotta step up and make the proclaimation to get that credit!! :cheerleader: After all, IntAceptor figured it out for himself, too, and eliminated the cursed connector.

And I've never heard of burnt RR wires.

Exactly. As per what Misspent says below....

I'll buy the connector connection issue as the cause of the melted connectors, but I believe the failed R/R issue is separate and unrelated.

Yes, that's why I made my Connector Proclaimation. The connector is the connector's fault, period. All the other RR-stator-burnt wiring threads that **I** ever saw treated the melted connector as something of a mystery, vaguely related to RRs, stators, inadequate wiring size, grounding issues, too much stator output, too little RR control of the current, etc. and so on. It's no longer a mystery....the friggin' terminals are loose inside that big white (soon to be melted brown) connector! Fix that, and the meltdown problem goes away. Just like when you guys discovered the proactive approach for the 30 amp fuse wire/terminal/fuseblock problem on 6th Gens. It was no electronical mystery...it was poor quality connections. Gravity sucks!

Of course, Tightwad knows all this anyhoo! :fing02:

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NO NEED....per the other string, you can call ANYONE an engineer :laughing6-hehe:

Oh...yeah. That. The electrical engineer throwdown challenge. That got rather pissy, didn't it?

But the great thing about this forum is that most of us are not shy about saying something like "I know nothing about electrical/mechanical/tire stuff, please explain." And once that is said, we all are happy to give good basic advice. :fing02:

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I have never had a problem like this, but I do have a question. I bought an 02 VFR last year which had the recall already done by the previous owner. I installed Tightwad's VFRNess in hopes of avoiding these troubles. It's been a year, and I don't remember which connectors, etc. were involved. Is what has been done on my bike likely to be enough? It had 7.5K miles on it and I have added about 30K with no trouble so far.

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I have never had a problem like this, but I do have a question. I bought an 02 VFR last year which had the recall already done by the previous owner. I installed Tightwad's VFRNess in hopes of avoiding these troubles. It's been a year, and I don't remember which connectors, etc. were involved. Is what has been done on my bike likely to be enough? It had 7.5K miles on it and I have added about 30K with no trouble so far.

I said the same thing. I have never had a problem at all, so after reading that so many had problems I decided to get the the VFRness and a new R/R from Tightwad. Rode for a year and them bam! this fall I had burnt connectors. I am going to get a stat and R/R fix the connectors by sodering them. and hope all is good.

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After reading this thread I decided to check and clean up the stator plug since I had meltdown problems at 50k miles 3 years ago, replaced stator, RR, and battery. Now at 85k miles on my '02 the wires are getting hotter. I found that one of the wires is completely toasted black, melted plastic. I just ordered tightwads hard wire terminal to reconnect the stator wires. Is this the best solution and should I consider anything else to keep the electrons happily flowing?

I did the wiring recall in '08 and upgraded the 30 amp fuse holder.

Running system voltage at the battery has been 13.7 to 14.0 V

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  • Member Contributer

i have know about this glitch since 86,, when mine melted on my vfr750.. i cut them out and hard wired it..

on EVERY honda i work on or prep.. i unplug them and slide a pick in there to bend the "female' tang.. better contact. :fing02:

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i have know about this glitch since 86,, when mine melted on my vfr750.. i cut them out and hard wired it..

Wait a golllddamnededed minute! You can't claim this issue back to 1986! The engines were friggin' air-cooled back then!! No fair! Find your own chronic Honda problem to solve! :goofy:

But he makes a good point...this harness problem is nothing new, and there is no mystery. Fix those terminals now!

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  • 2 weeks later...

I agree this is the cause of the stator plug failure. The older style plugs didn't just fall apart, but any compromise to the connector finish will cause a problem. Hardwiring works, but some heat is still noted at that point...make sure the connection is VERY solid, and you are good to go!

Using a junction block like the kit I sell should allow the R/R to be seperated from the Stator even roadside, which can be good.

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Seems we're (VFR's) not the only ones prone to these type of failures:

Here's a link to a well thought out and researched posting on a Triumph Forum.

Using connectors sourced from Eastern Beaver I plan to wire in an R1 FH012 mosfet R/R and run the output directly to the battery as described in the post. Seems to be working well on my Pacific Coast.

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That is essentially what the 90-97 VFRness with R1 adapter is, as the cables go directly to the battery. Works well from everyone who has installed them so far, so go for it! I just wish those R1 plugs were cheaper!

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OMG someone give this man a piece of paper...

errr, I mean an engineering degree.

:laughing6-hehe:

NO NEED....per the other string, you can call ANYONE an engineer :laughing6-hehe:

:beatdeadhorse:

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I just installed Tightwad's junction block kit on my '02 VFR replacing the melted stator/RR plug. The junction block is remaining cool and seems to be a good solution to the burning plug.

The first time I started the bike after the fix the three thinner stator wires to the junction block were not heating up much. After putting the fairing back on I started the bike later today and the three thinner yellow wires were heating up more, not too hot to touch but almost. It was the same temperature where the wires came out of the alternator and at the other end up to the junction block. I am not sure if this is a concern or not.

This stator/RR connector and the 30 amp fuse holder work fine when new but as these connectors corrode they over heat. I had both of these first over heat at 47K miles at the same time the stator went out. After two aftermarket stator failures I replaced the stator, RR, battery with OEM, and had the wiring recall done at 55K miles. At 60k the 30 amp fuse holder was getting toasty and replaced it with an automotive type ATO/ATC in line fuse holder. Now at 87k the stator/RR connector melted again. With the fuse holder and stator/RR fixes the electrical system is now working much better.

These two fixes will be the first thing I do if I get another 6th gen.

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Seems we're (VFR's) not the only ones prone to these type of failures:

Here's a link to a well thought out and researched posting on a Triumph Forum.

Using connectors sourced from Eastern Beaver I plan to wire in an R1 FH012 mosfet R/R and run the output directly to the battery as described in the post. Seems to be working well on my Pacific Coast.

Just bypassed the same burnt connection on my '03 Aprilia Tuono. Same problems as the others...

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i have know about this glitch since 86,, when mine melted on my vfr750.. i cut them out and hard wired it..

on EVERY honda i work on or prep.. i unplug them and slide a pick in there to bend the "female' tang.. better contact. :fing02:

:fing02: I don't know diddley but that was the 1st thing I thought of checking and doing, but wasn't sure how to get to the female connection to squeeze them being incased in those plastic housings. I've done that to old regular connectors with just the soft covers.

I'm one of those people that really appreciate you more knowledgable peeps...Thx.

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