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Fork Swap - Steering stem?


dpcincy

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I'm trying to gather the parts list I'm going to need to do a swap to the VFR and the one thing that doesn't get much mention in the posts is what steering stem is used on the conversions. I saw that the SP1 stem works, but is that the only option? Are there any others that can be considered from others' experience?

Planning to use the 929/954 lower and an SP1 upper for triples, but wasn't sure what stems could be utilized.

Appreciate any information peeps are willing to part with.

Thanks!

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If I read your question right. The stems are part of the lower bridge. So when you change the lower bridge, you are also changing the stem at the sametime.

I used a '01 RC51 (SP1) lower and a 954 top. Some have used the 929/954 lower. With the RC51 lower. You have to use the lower bearings from a '01 RC51 (SP1) with a 3mm spacer, and use the top bearings from the VFR. Not sure with the 929/954 lower, but think you can use the VFR bearings upper and lower.

Here's my build thread.

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/57685-let-the-mods-begin-part-ii/

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Just about all of the CBR and VFR models use the same upper and lower stem bearings, so the 929/954 is a direct swap for the lower and you don't have to worry about matching bearing sizes or switching stems. I used the 954 upper and lower since I get the gullwing upper so I have more room for fork height adjustment (and I know they work together).

Most triples are interchangeable (within fork diameter sizes) so you can mix and match the upper and lower, however they did change the offset for the CBR1000RR so that triple will not work with a 954/929 lower (tried it). Not sure about the newer CBR600's. Sounds like you'll be fine with the 954/SP1 combo, I think some here have that setup but I don't remember what the differences are from the 954, I think its only the gullwing design but not sure...

Good luck

Edited by mrmatt
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I'm wondering how the R1 triples line up.

I looked at this option when I did my conversion. I know the R1 triples/stem will not match to my 3rd generation, I even looked into swapping out the stems from the R1 to a 929 but you had to do some machine work to make it happen and it was cheaper to fab the spacers required.

The R1 off set is also 4mm (2mm each side) narrower then the 929/954/RC51 stems so you can not use a Yamaha upper/lower with a Honda upper/lower

Here is the link to my Gallery and list of what I have used for parts. The only update is I bought Woodcraft clipons and did a VTR1000 clutch master conversion.

Edited by VIFFER93
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I looked at this option when I did my conversion. I know the R1 triples/stem will not match to my 3rd generation, I even looked into swapping out the stems from the R1 to a 929 but you had to do some machine work to make it happen and it was cheaper to fab the spacers required.

The R1 off set is also 4mm (2mm each side) narrower then the 929/954/RC51 stems so you can not use a Yamaha upper/lower with a Honda upper/lower

That's pretty much what I needed to hear. The offset isn't really a worry, as I would make my own upper triple anyways. Would just end up using an R1 front wheel, spacers, ect. But if the stem's no good, the stems no good. Thanks.

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Thanks all, appreciate the guidance.

My plan will be to use the 929 lower with the SP1 upper combined with R1 forks, wheel, brakes, etc...a la ZRoyZ blue beauty. Will need some time to get everything together, but will try to document everything well so people can learn from, and hopefully not replicate, any mistakes I make in the process.

Off we go...

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The only problem that I had to think about was, the lower bridge hitting the oil cooler at full turn. zRoyz did his one way, and I did it abit different than him.

Good luck on your FrankenViffer.

Oh, a little piece of info I picked up not long ago. Conny 14 forks are thought to be the same length as the RC51 forks. Also heard that Ohlins is going to make another batch of RC51 forks based on the Conny 14 forks, because of them being the same length. This came from a well known person on the west coast.

Edited by RustyA
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Anyone attempted the swap using CBR1000RR (06-07) forks or know of a reason they wouldn't work? The length looks to be right and they come stock with the spring rate I need, saving me a step and some coin. This is new ground for me so I appreciate any guidance, hints, or smacks people are willing to share.

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Anyone attempted the swap using CBR1000RR (06-07) forks or know of a reason they wouldn't work? The length looks to be right and they come stock with the spring rate I need, saving me a step and some coin. This is new ground for me so I appreciate any guidance, hints, or smacks people are willing to share.

Not sure, as long as the length is fine then I bet they'd work, I'm pretty sure they have the same offset (left to right), but the stem to fork center is different than the 929/954 (front to back). I'm going with the R1 front end with 954 triples for my current build (yeah, my garage is a mess...)

gallery_12942_4385_813162.jpg

DSC02313.JPG

Let us know what you come up with for the oil radiator, I'm still struggling with that part...

Edited by mrmatt
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Thanks all, appreciate the guidance.

My plan will be to use the 929 lower with the SP1 upper combined with R1 forks, wheel, brakes, etc...a la ZRoyZ blue beauty. Will need some time to get everything together, but will try to document everything well so people can learn from, and hopefully not replicate, any mistakes I make in the process.

Off we go...

This is combination is pretty much exactly what I did with mine, I am happy to answer questions as you move along. When looking for R1 parts do not forget to look at certain R6 parts (wheels) because they can be interchanged and some times can be less expensive... if your lucky.

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Let us know what you come up with for the oil radiator, I'm still struggling with that part...

I moved the mounting point for the oil cooler out/forward on my fairing stay and bought bulk oil cooler lines (NAPA) and cut then cut to the size I needed. The lines have just enough bow in them to make it around the forks nicely. I just used hose clamps to mount the oil lines on the OEM oil barbs but most NAPA store should be able to make the same type of fitting found on the OEM Honda lines.

Edited by VIFFER93
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Anyone attempted the swap using CBR1000RR (06-07) forks or know of a reason they wouldn't work? The length looks to be right

Do you know what the exact length is? (top to centre of axle)

Negative, they are the same. I have successfully mix & matched 929/954 & 1000RR triples. Bottoms with tops and tops with bottoms.

According to JZH's list the 08/09 Fireblade has different fork spacing than earlier models.

Here is the list originally made by JZH. He took his list offline because some suorces proved to be unreliable so it may still contain some errors. If you have any reliable info to contribute or see any errors please add or correct the data.

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The only information I have is in relation to the 04-07 CBR forks from the fork length spreadsheet on this site. It shows the length of the forks as 314, which would put it betwen the RC51 and R1 forks as far as length.

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According to JZH's list the 08/09 Fireblade has different fork spacing than earlier models.

Here is the list originally made by JZH. He took his list offline because some suorces proved to be unreliable so it may still contain some errors. If you have any reliable info to contribute or see any errors please add or correct the data.

The original poster was asking about 06/07 parts.

Here is a version of that spreadsheet that I've been adding to. I have both 04/05 and 06/06 CBR1000RR fork sets at home, I will remeasure cap to center, unloaded and add that to the list tonight/tomorrow and re post.

Copy of Inverted Fork Swap Data Excel 2003.xls

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The R1 off set is also 4mm (2mm each side) narrower then the 929/954/RC51 stems so you can not use a Yamaha upper/lower with a Honda upper/lower

Here is the link to my Gallery and list of what I have used for parts. The only update is I bought Woodcraft clipons and did a VTR1000 clutch master conversion.

I checked out the gallery and list; were you able to use the stock R1 axle with the extra space between the forks? How did the rotors line up on the R6 wheel, did they have to be spaced as well?

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Here is a version of that spreadsheet that I've been adding to. I have both 04/05 and 06/06 CBR1000RR fork sets at home, I will remeasure cap to center, unloaded and add that to the list tonight/tomorrow and re post.

They're not for sale are they SEB? :491:

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Anyone attempted the swap using CBR1000RR (06-07) forks or know of a reason they wouldn't work? The length looks to be right

Do you know what the exact length is? (top to centre of axle)

Negative, they are the same. I have successfully mix & matched 929/954 & 1000RR triples. Bottoms with tops and tops with bottoms.

According to JZH's list the 08/09 Fireblade has different fork spacing than earlier models.

Here is the list originally made by JZH. He took his list offline because some suorces proved to be unreliable so it may still contain some errors. If you have any reliable info to contribute or see any errors please add or correct the data.

I believe 04-07 CBR1000RR forks are the same, length was quoted serveral times at 725mm, stock. Be good if you could confirm Seb (always had me doubts).

I was tempted to buy them, not only are they plentiful, but they're cheapish compared to RC kit.

The 08-09 are listed shorter at 700mm.

I would love radial calipers, but I also wanted to increase the ride height overall.

I just wasn't exactly sure if there was enough space to mount bars above the triple, even with the gullwing design.

If I was living in the US, I'd have forks running out me ears.

Stock 98-01 VFR forks came in at 800mm.

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The R1 off set is also 4mm (2mm each side) narrower then the 929/954/RC51 stems so you can not use a Yamaha upper/lower with a Honda upper/lower

Here is the link to my Gallery and list of what I have used for parts. The only update is I bought Woodcraft clipons and did a VTR1000 clutch master conversion.

I checked out the gallery and list; were you able to use the stock R1 axle with the extra space between the forks? How did the rotors line up on the R6 wheel, did they have to be spaced as well?

The R1 axle worked fine, it is 4mm short which It sounds like a lot until you see it. You could adjust the rotors or the calipers, I added washers to the caliper bolts to move them in and line up with the rotors.

I went with the R6 rim because the rotor size (300mm) matched the rotor and axle size of the '00 R1 and I wanted a 5 spoke rim.

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I believe 04-07 CBR1000RR forks are the same, length was quoted serveral times at 725mm, stock. Be good if you could confirm Seb (always had me doubts).

I was tempted to buy them, not only are they plentiful, but they're cheapish compared to RC kit.

The 08-09 are listed shorter at 700mm.

I would love radial calipers, but I also wanted to increase the ride height overall.

I just wasn't exactly sure if there was enough space to mount bars above the triple, even with the gullwing design.

If I was living in the US, I'd have forks running out me ears.

Stock 98-01 VFR forks came in at 800mm.

I just finished measuring both fork sets.

I took one leg from each set, bare but ready to install, and laid each on my workbench. Measured each leg twice with my 62cm Starret vernier caliper. Then measured again with a regular standard tape measure and converted to mm to compare.

Obviously the vernier calipers are not long enough to measure in one step(only 620mm available), so I set them to 600mm and measured from the top of the cap down, made a felt pen mark at 600. Then took an inside measurement from the very bottom of the axle hole to the mark. Added the two dimensions, and subtracted the radius of the axle hole to get the overall length. (I measured the leg with the larger hole in each case, FYI)

Here are the results:

04-05 CBR1000RR fork

length = 710mm

axle dia = 32mm

Fork cap to axle center length = 694mm

06-07 CBR1000RR fork

length = 720mm

axle diameter = 32mm

Fork cap to axle center length = 704mm

The 04-05 fork(s) are freshly rebuilt with stock internals. The 06-07 forks are used, internals unknown.

I am looking into modifying the internal top out spring in my 04-05 forks to allow for more extension.

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According to JZH's list the 08/09 Fireblade has different fork spacing than earlier models.

Here is the list originally made by JZH. He took his list offline because some suorces proved to be unreliable so it may still contain some errors. If you have any reliable info to contribute or see any errors please add or correct the data.

The original poster was asking about 06/07 parts.

Here is a version of that spreadsheet that I've been adding to. I have both 04/05 and 06/06 CBR1000RR fork sets at home, I will remeasure cap to center, unloaded and add that to the list tonight/tomorrow and re post.

Copy of Inverted Fork Swap Data Excel 2003.xls

I originated the fork swap chart referenced to by V4 Rosso and SEBSPEED above. Seb's additions to the chart are excellent (he added all the VF and VFR data that I did not originally include, and more). As for the accuracy and the sources of the info, I tried to find creditable sources and lay out where I got them from, but even the fork lengths quoted by the Ohlins fork source (which is no longer online) may not be exact. For example, I used '06-'07 ZX-10R forks which I measured at 738mm, compared to the 743mm listed on the Ohlins site. I would take those Internet sources as a rough guide, and trust "primary sources" such as Seb's measurements of the CBR forks as the most accurate:

I just finished measuring both fork sets.

I took one leg from each set, bare but ready to install, and laid each on my workbench. Measured each leg twice with my 62cm Starret vernier caliper. Then measured again with a regular standard tape measure and converted to mm to compare.

Obviously the vernier calipers are not long enough to measure in one step(only 620mm available), so I set them to 600mm and measured from the top of the cap down, made a felt pen mark at 600. Then took an inside measurement from the very bottom of the axle hole to the mark. Added the two dimensions, and subtracted the radius of the axle hole to get the overall length. (I measured the leg with the larger hole in each case, FYI)

Here are the results:

04-05 CBR1000RR fork

length = 710mm

axle dia = 32mm

Fork cap to axle center length = 694mm

06-07 CBR1000RR fork

length = 720mm

axle diameter = 32mm

Fork cap to axle center length = 704mm

The 04-05 fork(s) are freshly rebuilt with stock internals. The 06-07 forks are used, internals unknown.

I am looking into modifying the internal top out spring in my 04-05 forks to allow for more extension.

I'm glad the spreadsheet is finding some use and being built upon. If anyone is curious about the reliability of any of the numbers or sources listed, I can give an idea about which ones I think are 100% correct and which ones may be less than perfect.

Lacy

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Thanks for checking SEB, appreciate it.

Any idea how that compares to the 05 R1 forks you're bolting up?

I prefer to use parts I know going in will work, but cheaper options are always welcome :)

Edited by dpcincy
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Thanks for checking SEB, appreciate it.

Any idea how that compares to the 05 R1 forks you're bolting up?

I prefer to use parts I know going in will work, but cheaper options are always welcome :)

I'll let you know about the R1 forks when they get here on Friday. :wink:

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