hot stator wires....again

[Guest blackbuell]

Sorry about beating a dead horse, but I really want to solve this problem. I seek responses from members who have had the same problem and have managed to solve it. I have thoroughly searched the archives of this site and have found posts of many members with the problem, but I have not found many references to how the problem was finally resolved.

I have two '98 VFR's with identical problem: the wires between stator and the R/R get hot. To be more specific: the wires between the stator and the connector get quite warm, but not hot enough to burn your fingers. However, at 5K+ RPM's the wires between the connector and the R/R get so hot that they will burn your fingers; the higher the engine RMP's the hotter the wires.

Charging voltages are within spec.

I have done the following:

1. installed new R/R and stator

2. installed VFRness

3. cleaned all connectors that were easy to access

4. added an additional ground between the battery and frame.

5. cleaned contact points (on frame and R/R) of ground wires

A mechanic at my local Honda dealership says that he has seen this problem several times with both 5th and 6th gen VFR's. He said that they could never figure out how to solve the problem. However, in one case, he changed out the R/R several times and the problem mysteriously disappeared.

If you have had this problem and managed to solve it, please let me know how you did it.

On the other hand....if your wires, like mine, get too hot to touch but your bike has been able to function OK like this for a long time, I also want to hear from you.

Thanks,

Jon

[Guest]

Sorry about beating a dead horse, but I really want to solve this problem. I seek responses from members who have had the same problem and have managed to solve it. I have thoroughly searched the archives of this site and have found posts of many members with the problem, but I have not found many references to how the problem was finally resolved.

I have two '98 VFR's with identical problem: the wires between stator and the R/R get hot. To be more specific: the wires between the stator and the connector get quite warm, but not hot enough to burn your fingers. However, at 5K+ RPM's the wires between the connector and the R/R get so hot that they will burn your fingers; the higher the engine RMP's the hotter the wires.

Charging voltages are within spec.

I have done the following:

1. installed new R/R and stator

2. installed VFRness

3. cleaned all connectors that were easy to access

4. added an additional ground between the battery and frame.

5. cleaned contact points (on frame and R/R) of ground wires

A mechanic at my local Honda dealership says that he has seen this problem several times with both 5th and 6th gen VFR's. He said that they could never figure out how to solve the problem. However, in one case, he changed out the R/R several times and the problem mysteriously disappeared.

If you have had this problem and managed to solve it, please let me know how you did it.

On the other hand....if your wires, like mine, get too hot to touch but your bike has been able to function OK like this for a long time, I also want to hear from you.

Thanks,

Jon

Been through the same thing on my 6th gen. I replaced my battery, R/R, sub-harness, added the VFRness kit, cleaned and greased every connection and my three yellow wires still get hot. They don't get melting hot but they're very hot to the touch. As with your bike, everything checks out fine and I have no running or charging issues. I gave up trying to fix it and many told me it's just normal and not to worry about it. I've put around 1,200 miles on the bike since and nothing has changed. Every so often I pull the right side fairing off just to check and see if anything is melting but so far, it's all good. I believe the factory stator is the issue but I refuse the replace it until it stops working. The reason I think it's the stator is because it's the only thing I didn't replace.. If you find a cure, please post up the solution. Good luck.

[Guest]

Smokey,

One reason I started this thread was to find out who else is experiencing the same problem so that we could exchange information; I will keep you (and others who are interested) posted on what happens with my bikes. I plan to take several long trips this summer, so if the hot wires are symptoms of a larger problem, then I should learn more within the next few months.

Jon

[03vfrrider]

Why do the wires get hot? Let's see...I squared X R = Power (watts). Let's assume "I" (current) is somewhat constant under a given situation...then the power (or heat) generated by the current flow is directly proportional to the "R" (resistance). Is the wiring hot the entire length from the stator? If it is hot at or near the connector only, I would suggest soldering the wires to the connecting terminals to significantly reduce the resistance. Crimped connections are common and can work well (they are cheap to use in manufacturing), but they can also loosen over time due to numerous reasons. If the wires are hot all along the length, then you have a different issue.

[Guest]

I've been riding both of my 5th gens quite a bit this past month, and, as I anticipated, the problem with the hot stator wires is getting worse in both. In one of the bikes the yellow wires between the connector and the R/R are turning brown. I had the R/R tested at a local shop, and it is fine aside from the fact that the yellow wires are obviously cooking. I assumed the next step would be another meltdown of the wires and the connector, so I started switching parts around to find out if I could learn something more about the source of the heat. I replaced the R/R (an upgraded Honda part) with the original 1998 part, which I had removed a year ago in an effort to be proactive. GUESS WHAT? The heating problem is now gone in this bike. The older "inadequate" part seems to work better than the upgraded one. True, the wires still get warm but not too hot to touch.

Does anybody have a clue about what this means? Why would a "superior", upgraded R/R, with greater heat dissipation characteristics create this heating problem?

I'm tempted to try to locate other discarded 1998 R/R's and put one in my other bike, and keep a few for spares.

Jon

[Adam30]

I've been riding both of my 5th gens quite a bit this past month, and, as I anticipated, the problem with the hot stator wires is getting worse in both. In one of the bikes the yellow wires between the connector and the R/R are turning brown. I had the R/R tested at a local shop, and it is fine aside from the fact that the yellow wires are obviously cooking. I assumed the next step would be another meltdown of the wires and the connector, so I started switching parts around to find out if I could learn something more about the source of the heat. I replaced the R/R (an upgraded Honda part) with the original 1998 part, which I had removed a year ago in an effort to be proactive. GUESS WHAT? The heating problem is now gone in this bike. The older "inadequate" part seems to work better than the upgraded one. True, the wires still get warm but not too hot to touch.

Does anybody have a clue about what this means? Why would a "superior", upgraded R/R, with greater heat dissipation characteristics create this heating problem?

I'm tempted to try to locate other discarded 1998 R/R's and put one in my other bike, and keep a few for spares.

Jon

I too ran into this on my 2002 about 2 years ago. I never really had any reason to do any work in that area of the bike, until one day I could smell an electrical type of burning smell, while idling at a stoplight, in fairly warm weather, with the hi beams and cooling fan running. After digging into it, thats when i noticed the 3 wires getting hot. The problem was worst right at the connection where the regulator connects to the stator. I had dug into this at that time, and came across no answers that i felt were satisfactory. Finally, I talked to someone online who sells and services alot of motorcycle electrical systems, particularly stators, regulators, etc. He had told me that the connection itself was the problem on these bikes, especially if corrosion had started, along with the wires basically being too small of a guage for what the stator puts out. He advised me to remove the plastic connection, and to make a permanant, soldered type connection in place of the connector, and to stagger each connection if possible. Then to heat shrink everthing to insulate it. I did do that, and while the wires still get warm, i no longer have any pieces getting so hot that they actually begin to melt and deform/discolor, which is what the stock connector was beginning to do.

[rangemaster]

I upgraded the stator wires and got rid of the connector on my '97. Wired it directly to the R/R and have had no problems in 8000 miles riding in Albuquerque's 100 degree plus summer heat . ALL the stock wiring is under size on the 4th GENs, sounds like its a problem on the newer ones too.

:fing02:

[Tightwad]

The R/R you bought from me was the OEM style, prior to the introduction of the MOSFET style...it would be interesting to know if the new MOSFET style gives the same result. Knife just had his connections pretty much burn up...so I would avoid riding until you find an answer...it isn't going to just go away, it appears to be getting worse.

[Guest]

OK, I ordered a MOSFET type R/R and will try it in one of the bikes. I'll report the results of the installation in this thread; maybe they will be useful to others.

Jon

[Serenity_VFR]

I²R heating might be a problem.

It just might be that the very act of unplugging and re-plugging the 3P connector into a different R/R has cleaned it up enough temporarily to reduce the resistance at the 3P connector.

As it was said by Rangemaster, one solution is to get rid of the 3P alltogether -but another good solution would be to carefully clean the connector with contact cleaner and then carefully cover the contact points with anti-oxidant grease so that they make a good oxidation-free connection with minimum electrical impedance.

Heat generated at the connector will be conducted right down the copper of the wire and heat it for many inches and make it seem like the wires itself are the issue. But remember the wires are covered by thermoplastic insulation that not only insulates against electrical potential but also keeps heat in too.

We are only talking about a very small amount of current here and the wire is sized to be able to handle it. Were talking something like 10A per conductor at the voltages we are talking about at the primary AC side of the R/R. The DC side is fused at 30A. It's not the wires, it is the connection., I think the stock wires are #14AWG -they should be able to handle about 25-30 amps in free air without burning up. There is NO WAY that the AC side is putting out 30A 3-phase at 50-ish volts. That enough power to nearly run your whole house nearly as long as you didn't have everything on at once. In reality the stator is probably putting out something more like 5A each leg max. It's not the wires, it's the 3P connector.

[coderighter]

Any time you disconnect any plug on this bike, hit it with this......

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2104746&CAWELAID=107597316

.....before reconnecting.

You can find it at almost any electronics store. I just linked the shack because almost every town has one.

[Serenity_VFR]

Any time you disconnect any plug on this bike, hit it with this......

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2104746&CAWELAID=107597316

.....before reconnecting.

You can find it at almost any electronics store. I just linked the shack because almost every town has one.

That stuff is good. But I hate even going into a Radio Shack Phone-Plan Hut these days. I'll avoid that if at all possible. I hate Radio-Shack Phone Plan Hut!

I use Ox-Gard because you can find it in just about any hardware store or home-improvement store that has an electrical department -and fairly cheap. A $5 bottle will last your average person a lifetime.

At work I order NOALOX because that is what an electrical wholesale house carries (GB is only starting to become more popular in the commercial sector).

As a commercial electrician I wouldn't think of putting anything together without anti-ox grease unless it was just a temporary plug-type connection. The connections are the weak spot of any wiring system. And a spring-type connection is bound to fail sooner or later if it is outside and exposed to the elements.

A good way to apply the grease is with a tiny screwdriver and put it on the metal parts only (this stuff is conductive so you don't want to just goob it in there so that the pins of a multi-pin connector are shorting out to each other. A dental pick also works well in very small connections like bullet connectors or the tiny pins of a larger number wire connector such as a 6-8P + connector.

[Rice]

Any time you disconnect any plug on this bike, hit it with this......

http://www.radioshac...ELAID=107597316

.....before reconnecting.

You can find it at almost any electronics store. I just linked the shack because almost every town has one.

I've used it on my 02 and the connector still burned up.

I too am of the opinion that it is the connector. I would not remove the connectors though, but just bypass them by soldering some thick wires in place.

I will do the same on my 06 one day just in case.

[Serenity_VFR]

I too am of the opinion that it is the connector. I would not remove the connectors though, but just bypass them by soldering some thick wires in place.

Why bother leaving the connector if you are bypassing it? What purpose does this serve to maintain this vestigial connector? -in case you someday want to go back to stock?

[Rice]

I too am of the opinion that it is the connector. I would not remove the connectors though, but just bypass them by soldering some thick wires in place.

Why bother leaving the connector if you are bypassing it? What purpose does this serve to maintain this vestigial connector? -in case you someday want to go back to stock?

Because I am afraid of commitment and like options. No reason to remove the connectors, assuming that they haven't burned up yet.

Also because I am remembering a$holes at the dealership charging me $80 to revert my 30AMP fuse fix back to stock in order to do a recall. And screwing it up, btw Long story. Dealers suck.

[vfrcapn]

Any time you disconnect any plug on this bike, hit it with this......

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2104746&CAWELAID=107597316

.....before reconnecting.

You can find it at almost any electronics store. I just linked the shack because almost every town has one.

That stuff is good. But I hate even going into a Radio Shack Phone-Plan Hut these days. I'll avoid that if at all possible. I hate Radio-Shack Phone Plan Hut!

I use Ox-Gard because you can find it in just about any hardware store or home-improvement store that has an electrical department -and fairly cheap. A $5 bottle will last your average person a lifetime.

At work I order NOALOX because that is what an electrical wholesale house carries (GB is only starting to become more popular in the commercial sector).

As a commercial electrician I wouldn't think of putting anything together without anti-ox grease unless it was just a temporary plug-type connection. The connections are the weak spot of any wiring system. And a spring-type connection is bound to fail sooner or later if it is outside and exposed to the elements.

A good way to apply the grease is with a tiny screwdriver and put it on the metal parts only (this stuff is conductive so you don't want to just goob it in there so that the pins of a multi-pin connector are shorting out to each other. A dental pick also works well in very small connections like bullet connectors or the tiny pins of a larger number wire connector such as a 6-8P + connector.

I also think it's the connectors causing a lot of the issues.

On the grease, why wouldn't you use a non-conducting dielectric grease, something like http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/8462.html ?

[Serenity_VFR]

I also think it's the connectors causing a lot of the issues.

On the grease, why wouldn't you use a non-conducting dielectric grease, something like http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/8462.html ?

Because the problem isn't too low of an impedance, it's too HIGH of one. Adding more insulating goop to the metal-to-metal contacts isn't going to reduce resistance/impedance, which is what we want.

If you want slather the outside of the connector with that stuff it's OK because it helps keep the moisture out -but that's about all the good it does IMHO. Using dialectric, which is non-conducting, to improve metal/metal electrical contacts is counter-productive.