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Cooking with Hydrogen.


JES_VFR

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Autotune module is finally shipping to me.

I had enough $$ after having to get a realtime scan tool for the wife's car (looks like it has a flaky HEGO).

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Just some ramblings from me (before the rumblings from the last driver update kill this laptop, do not install driver patches after service pack 3 on an laptop running XP PRO).

It looks like I'm going to have to go back in under the seat, so that I can get the cell more upright and a little bit lower.

Priming the cell after a longer run is getting to be a pain. But it looks like a little re-arranging will do the job.

I have two options, one is to make a couple of brackets to attach the cell to rear of the rack mounts and the back of the subframe, then move the tank up and forward to just behind the frankenbolts. This is not the best idea in my mind because it creates three issues.

1. I'll have to pull the seat every time I need to add water to the main tank.

2. It puts the heaviest part of the system, the cell itself at the far back of the bike AND puts it directly into the spray from the rear tire.

3. If I upgrade to a double stack later, it will destroy the stealth of the cell putting out in plain sight.

The second option is to form a box for the cell to slide into, and cut away the underseat tray just behind the battery box (a la, Veefer800Canuck's underseat tray to clear his under seat exhaust). The pluses here are:

I can stand the cell nearly vertical, while getting down below the top of the main tank, so priming issues should go away.

I can move switching (on key on) relay, the fuse block, the pcm, the power commander V and the inbound autotune module, while still having room for a pwm for the cell later, a pwm fan controller and any wiring for HID's.

I'll have the cell tucked in closer to the center of mass on the bike, while still having enough room to upgrade it larger cell later on.

I will be able to fill the tank without constantly removing the seat, further preserving the stealth of the install.

In fact, if I can find the right source for the materials, I can even fab up a larger main tank.

I can already tell that I'll be out tomorrow (oops later today) with the tape measure confirming what I'm thinking here and now.

Its got to be better than just waiting for this laptop to die, so I get to go through the windows 7 upgrade.

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I look forward to seeing your results once the priming issues is sorted.

Would your cell fit behind the number plate? if so it could be mounted vertically which would solve the priming issues your having.

Nate

EDIT - get ubuntu linux - the latest version runs silky smooth and makes old laptops seem new again (although I am running windows 7 on this laptop it has no support for the graphics chipset so streaming video/watching dvds is a no go)

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I look forward to seeing your results once the priming issues is sorted.

Would your cell fit behind the number plate? if so it could be mounted vertically which would solve the priming issues your having.

Nate

EDIT - get ubuntu linux - the latest version runs silky smooth and makes old laptops seem new again (although I am running windows 7 on this laptop it has no support for the graphics chipset so streaming video/watching dvds is a no go)

No it won't fit behind the license plate, as its 3+ inches thick. I thought about tucking it up behind the fender, sort of like a scottoiler's tank, but that is still a 3+ inch thick brick.

So I'd be hanging a pretty big mass back at the rear most point of the bike. And since that would force me to move the main tank somewhere else that might not resolve the priming issue.

So It's measure, measure, measure and cut time again. I might get some breathing room to trim it out and bend some aluminum sheet to make a new tray and mount...

As far as the laptop goes, I bought this one September of 2008, just as the windows 7 beta was released for corporate testing.

Vista professional did not have supported component libraries so my development tools would not compile and run on it unless I ran all my stuff in XP compatibility mode. I called SDK company and they said they were doing vista, they were already working on Windows 7 Libraries.

So I had to fight with HP to backdate the OS on my new laptop to XP pro. I had ordered it through a corporate portal and specified the OS must be XP pro (which of course they charged extra for). We literally got to the point of me saying "okay take it back at and pay me back in full, but my corporate survey will state that you refused to take care of your mistake"

Whoops that stopped them short so they sent me a copy of xp pro and a driver set to shut me up.

Not all the drivers ever worked as the wireless networking never worked.

But every driver update for this laptop since xp pro service pack 3 came out has had one bad driver after another.

Now I have to reboot or crash every 8 hours or so as SVCHOST has a huge processor clock cycles issue. It eventually just max's out both processors and eventually crashes the machine.

What I love its that my son as exactly the model laptop, but he's running vista pro and it has always crashed since day one like mine is now.

But a friend of mine also has this laptop and he's running windows 7 without any problems. He's even overclocked it and he's stable.

So that is where I think I going as soon as I can get a lower cost copy of window 7 professional upgrade.

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Is your son a student? Win 7 is very cheap for students and educational professionals, I got mine (Win 7 Pro) for somewhere around $40. Which model laptop do you have?

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Is your son a student? Win 7 is very cheap for students and educational professionals, I got mine (Win 7 Pro) for somewhere around $40. Which model laptop do you have?

My oldest is a sophomore in HS. His school is closing for good this june and he has to transfer to another one in September.

I have a HP DV7 Pavillion.

As I said when I ordered it, I specified XP professional.

What It came with was Vista home edition the same thing that my son's came with a month before.

It was an uphill battle with HP to even get a copy of XP pro out of them, then a longer battle searching on the internet to get all the drives needed.

Finally I had something that mostly worked by November and was too desperate to go through the grief of upgrading to 7 pro.

But now that it looks like I need a complete OS reload, I may just move up to 7 Pro.

HP has all the drivers for this laptop in 32 and 64 bit versions of 7.

I can tell its time to wrestle the big backup drive from the wife and start prepping for another windows install.

I guess it could be worse. The prior laptop had the display fail over about a three day period and I did not have spare monitor to plug into it at the time.

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  • 5 months later...

Fine. When we get to the 80+ mpg VFR we WON'T bother you.

OKAY!!! Last May this post came out about hydroxy or HHO or whatever. Much interest was generated, the tree huggers and Big Oil Conspiracy Theorists proclaimed JES_VFR a saint and visionary. Most other members adopted a wait-and-see attitude hoping for the best, and several others (including Mad Scientist and myself) immediately waved the BULLSHIT flag.

My position was that you can't get something for nothing, no matter how many black helicopters with Exxon emblems you think might be following you; or no matter how many pseudo-science bullshit websites you subscribe to. The assorted wackos out there might not like pure science, but just because your politics make you think that there is a conspiracy doesn't necessarily mean there is one. [And I don't exactly mean your politics, JES, I'm using the general "you" and "your", here].

You (actually it was mostly your followers) resorted to name-calling when the logical and scientifically-educated members questioned your HHO investigations. I KNOW that you're a good guy, a good member here and that you mean well, but I can't let pseudo-science and left-wing theory run amok without a challenge.

What say you now? How about that 80 MPG that you referred to? Frankly, I'd love for you to tell us it's working and making lots of power and giving big mileage improvements, so I can eat a bunch of humble pie.

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Fine. When we get to the 80+ mpg VFR we WON'T bother you.

OKAY!!! Last May this post came out about hydroxy or HHO or whatever. Much interest was generated, the tree huggers and Big Oil Conspiracy Theorists proclaimed JES_VFR a saint and visionary. Most other members adopted a wait-and-see attitude hoping for the best, and several others (including Mad Scientist and myself) immediately waved the BULLSHIT flag.

My position was that you can't get something for nothing, no matter how many black helicopters with Exxon emblems you think might be following you; or no matter how many pseudo-science bullshit websites you subscribe to. The assorted wackos out there might not like pure science, but just because your politics make you think that there is a conspiracy doesn't necessarily mean there is one. [And I don't exactly mean your politics, JES, I'm using the general "you" and "your", here].

You (actually it was mostly your followers) resorted to name-calling when the logical and scientifically-educated members questioned your HHO investigations. I KNOW that you're a good guy, a good member here and that you mean well, but I can't let pseudo-science and left-wing theory run amok without a challenge.

What say you now? How about that 80 MPG that you referred to? Frankly, I'd love for you to tell us it's working and making lots of power and giving big mileage improvements, so I can eat a bunch of humble pie.

I agree with you completely mate, and so does dave from DavidsFarm.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Davidsfarm#p/u/6/QBKqIjNnabM

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Wow, this is going to be even better than an oil thread. I look forward to reading it all winter.

Just remember that a sufficiently advanced technology looks like magic to a less advanced culture.

Good luck, have fun.

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Wow, this is going to be even better than an oil thread. I look forward to reading it all winter.

Just remember that a sufficiently advanced technology looks like magic to a less advanced culture.

Good luck, have fun.

No, not magic. This system CAN be modeled by existing thermo and mechanical dynamics equations, however, the system is significantly complex that I wouldn't bother unless I was getting paid or researching for a dissertation. Even then, I would have to make assumptions that would need to be checked in a model system such that the number of degrees of freedom in the system could be reduced to a minimum.

However, I agree that there exists phenomena that can not yet be fully explained by current theory. I don't believe this to be one.

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I think that regardless of our expectations of the outcome, we can all agree that everyone wants Jes to carry this experiment through to its conclusion.

Several years ago I've been introduced to HHO by one of my hippy vegetarian friends over some beers. Being pretty good at physics in college, I put on my beer soaked thinking cap at the time and decided than it probably isn't possible - conservation of energy and all that.

However, the prospect of being able to gain a dramatic improvement of fuel economy with a relatively small investment got me excited. I'm not one of those people who believe that I can't possibly be wrong. This is one of those times when I'm looking forward to being proven wrong.

Jes - Please do not get discouraged by the naysayers and continue with your experiment.

Even if it turns out that HHO is BS, your experiment would still succeed.

Thank you for trying and for letting us know about your efforts.

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I think that regardless of our expectations of the outcome, we can all agree that everyone wants Jes to carry this experiment through to its conclusion.

Thank you for trying and for letting us know about your efforts.

Yes, exactly right. I don't think anyone said he should stop, but six months have passed and there was a lot of interest and discussion by both supporters and naysayers, along with an ongoing heated argument that ventured into politics and big business and conspiracy theories. So, what I'm thinkin' is that after tossing this experiment smack-dab into the middle of VFRD-land, it's about time "for letting us know about your efforts".

Isn't that fair? Just sayin'....

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I think that regardless of our expectations of the outcome, we can all agree that everyone wants Jes to carry this experiment through to its conclusion.

Thank you for trying and for letting us know about your efforts.

Yes, exactly right. I don't think anyone said he should stop, but six months have passed and there was a lot of interest and discussion by both supporters and naysayers, along with an ongoing heated argument that ventured into politics and big business and conspiracy theories. So, what I'm thinkin' is that after tossing this experiment smack-dab into the middle of VFRD-land, it's about time "for letting us know about your efforts".

Isn't that fair? Just sayin'....

No. It isn't fair.

If VFRD was paying Jes for this service (which it really is IMHO) you would be absolutely correct.

I know that it takes me 6 month to wash the damn bike with all the other priorities out there... Just sayin'...

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No. It isn't fair. If VFRD was paying Jes for this service (which it really is IMHO) you would be absolutely correct.

Dimitry, I can't quite follow the relevance of your point regarding payment, but I'll use your concept of "pay" to make my point. Using VFRD, JES started a thread where he preached the viability of HHO and haughtily boasted about 80mpg; and one of his supporters actually said "The Laws of Thermodynamics are dated", as if there's a statute of limitations on physics; and others accused Big Business/Big Oil of suppressing "green" research for various nefarious reasons. And last May we got daily updates of his installation and progress, but now.....nothing.

So, back to payments. Instead of VFRD having to PAY JES for the results of his experiment....I believe he OWES this community (both the supporters and the naysayers) a few minutes of his heavily prioritized time to give us an update. In fact, I'm betting that JES is just finishing up a big report on the results of his research and he'll be sending us the weblink to it any day now! :fing02:

Even Galileo and Columbus were told to "put up or shut up" when it came to their radical ideas, and those two guys eventually justified their beliefs. And on May 12th, you yourself said "Can't wait for the results!". So...how much time is enough time for him to give us some results?

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Wow. I'm sorry I ever opened this thread, it has completely changed how I see this site. I expected this kind of shennanigans from other forums but not VFRD. Reading through this thread all I could think of was Craigslist and two people bickering about whether or not you can post a dog in the free section (though in my opinion it was a one sided fist fight). I recently met a MSF instuctor at a fair and we were equally surprised to find out we both ride VFR's. I pointed him to this site and I sincerely hope he doesn't read this. I completely agree with challenging new ideas- but to stoop to childish banter about snake oil and such IMHO isn't right. I'll get off my soapbox now.

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Wow. I'm sorry I ever opened this thread, it has completely changed how I see this site. I expected this kind of shennanigans from other forums but not VFRD. Reading through this thread all I could think of was Craigslist and two people bickering about whether or not you can post a dog in the free section (though in my opinion it was a one sided fist fight). I recently met a MSF instuctor at a fair and we were equally surprised to find out we both ride VFR's. I pointed him to this site and I sincerely hope he doesn't read this. I completely agree with challenging new ideas- but to stoop to childish banter about snake oil and such IMHO isn't right. I'll get off my soapbox now.

Mate this is nothing - you should have seen all the debates about whether the new VFR1200 was a piece of crap or not back in October '09. One guy even called another guy a c**t!

Regarding the craigslist comparisons, you gotta see it on the percentages. Considering the sheer number of topics on VFRD, in the eight years I've been here I can count the number of threads which get heated on one hand. EIGHT YEARS!

Considering it is impossible to make everyone happy all of the time, those statistics are probably better than anywhere else on the Internet.

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Wow. I'm sorry I ever opened this thread, it has completely changed how I see this site.

You are completely off base with your take on this discussion. Let me boil it down for you for your re-consideration:

1. A good and respected member (JES) posted about his HHO project, which I think we ALL applauded as admirable for giving it a shot.

2. But many of us with technical backgrounds found it to be extremely questionable, because we know you don't get something for nothing.

3, This skepticism was bolstered by the long, long history of "Brown's Gas" hokum. Us doubters didn't invent the skepticism...it's well documented by most of the scientific community.

3. The greenie folks here accepted the premise that HHO is viable, and then attacked us skeptics as "capitalistic tools".

4. We all retreated to our respective corners for the past six months. Waiting.

5. And now....me....who is the proud owner of a long memory.....have asked the original poster of the status of his HHO project.

So I ask you.....if a member had converted his chain-drive to a belt-drive six months ago and then became a fanatic proponent of his own self-generated controversy, would it not be proper to ask that member how that belt system is doing after half a year of use? After all, on this excellent forum we are always sharing info, helping each other, challenging assorted ideas, and letting the marketplace decide.

Did you want us all to accept HHO as the Next Great Thing without question?

I'm questioning. And as of yet, I have no answers.

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It's not like someone said something really controversial, like "ABS is beneficial." :goofy:

Hahaha! Yeah, or dare ask about "oil" or "tires" or "helmets" or "which color is best", etc. :laughing6-hehe:

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Fine. When we get to the 80+ mpg VFR we WON'T bother you.

OKAY!!! Last May this post came out about hydroxy or HHO or whatever. Much interest was generated, the tree huggers and Big Oil Conspiracy Theorists proclaimed JES_VFR a saint and visionary. Most other members adopted a wait-and-see attitude hoping for the best, and several others (including Mad Scientist and myself) immediately waved the BULLSHIT flag.

My position was that you can't get something for nothing, no matter how many black helicopters with Exxon emblems you think might be following you; or no matter how many pseudo-science bullshit websites you subscribe to. The assorted wackos out there might not like pure science, but just because your politics make you think that there is a conspiracy doesn't necessarily mean there is one. [And I don't exactly mean your politics, JES, I'm using the general "you" and "your", here].

You (actually it was mostly your followers) resorted to name-calling when the logical and scientifically-educated members questioned your HHO investigations. I KNOW that you're a good guy, a good member here and that you mean well, but I can't let pseudo-science and left-wing theory run amok without a challenge.

What say you now? How about that 80 MPG that you referred to? Frankly, I'd love for you to tell us it's working and making lots of power and giving big mileage improvements, so I can eat a bunch of humble pie.

I think that regardless of our expectations of the outcome, we can all agree that everyone wants Jes to carry this experiment through to its conclusion.

Thank you for trying and for letting us know about your efforts.

Yes, exactly right. I don't think anyone said he should stop, but six months have passed and there was a lot of interest and discussion by both supporters and naysayers, along with an ongoing heated argument that ventured into politics and big business and conspiracy theories. So, what I'm thinkin' is that after tossing this experiment smack-dab into the middle of VFRD-land, it's about time "for letting us know about your efforts".

Isn't that fair? Just sayin'....

Okay well its fair to say I had an epic fail on keeping everyone informed.

So let me put this forward as an update. Please Bear with me it's a bit of a saga.

back in May I stuffed a HHO (also known as Hydroxy gas) generator cell under the passenger seat of my VFR. The reservoir tank for the electrolyte was mounted under the rear of fender. A circulating pump was required to as the cell was laid flat, and it was installed under the right side of the rear bodywork. There are pictures of that install up at the top of this thread.

I rode it this way for about a month and a half (Pretty much every day). Now the bike had absolutely no changes to the factory EFI tuning, so there were no changes to the mileage. At the time I could not afford a PCV and Autotune module so I was doing little more than vetting the installation.

I did have some issues with the keeping the cell functioning .

The first problem was that if I allowed the electrolyte level to drop enough, when it shut down the cell would empty. The issue here was getting it to refill evenly without having to pinch off return lines, or over filling the tank on every start up.

The second issue was that the system would suck fluid from the bubbler back into the tank after shut off. This also created a lot of extra maintenance as the bubbler was mounted in from the left radiator, behind the lower fairing.

So I made the decision to do three things.

1. relocate the cell to a position below the tank and pump, there by removing the priming issue. The spot that was chosen was right behind the battery box, underneath the rider seat. The auxiliary fuse block, relays would be moved under the passenger seat along with an inbound PCV and AutoTune Module. The PCM would move to the left side of the bodywork behind the Rectifier/Regulator.

2. Enlarge the main tank to roughly doubling the volume of electrolyte on board. That would reduce fill ups and help maintain stability in the cell.

3. I'd add a check valve between the main tank and the bubbler to stop if from sucking fluid in the bubbler back.

To facilitate these changes, I'd cut out the bottom of the underseat plastic 'tray' from the battery box back to the mounting bushings for the taillights. So a round of selling stuff I call collectables (and my wife calls junk) on ebay netted the funds to buy the materials and the PCV. A call to Dustin, got me a check valve mailed out.

Remember I'm basically unemployed so this it all done on a shoe string.

Figuring that I would have plenty of time to get it done in time for the 'RIP' ride that the VFR Mailing list was having the second weekend in July.

I decided to go. Then my buddy bumped me out of his shop (as he actually had a paying customer) and needed the workspace that I had been 'borrowing'.

So I had to talk the wife into getting me an early birthday gift, and a bike work table finally came to live in my garage.

And another 'friend' suddenly became to lazy to 'rent' me his sheet metal brake.

The result of all this was I start the actual installation about ten days later than I had planned. Bending the sheet aluminum on my table saw with hammers and wood blocks.

On Wednesday the 7th the VFR looked like this

5254391609_7c21154174.jpg

So, I buckled down, drafted my son Alex (he's a moose at 16) and hammered on getting the bike together.

Still the heat was high and the time was ticking, so about 2 am on Friday, I flopped on the bed, knowing I still didn't have a real tune in the PCV and that I was probably over packed by a factor of three.

In true test pilot fashion I slept like the dead, no nightmares, or even dreams that I could remember.

0600 came and I was on me feet gearing up to leave.

After putting the luggage on the bike, I eyeballed the sack in the reflection in the black paint of my neighbors SUV and dialed the preload on the hyperpro just about to the stop.

Damn, I knew I was way over-packed and overloaded, so I made Alex reach under and check for clearance.

His double pork chop hand fit between the rear tire and the front sheet of the tray with room to spare so, it all seemed good.

Since I had so many fluids on board for both me and the bike, I was guessing that I'd be okay as the weight would just drop all day.

Like a maxed out attack aircraft I rumbled over the driveway apron and off to meet Steve and another John.

We gathered and headed up state on our trek to the catskills.

Going through Trenton, I felt rear suspension hit hard while trying to pick the smaller and shallower potholes in a section of road that could only be called a crater farm.

We pulled in to take a quick pee break and top off our tanks about a half an hour later and I noticed the circulating pump was making a lot of noise. looking up under the fender, this is what I saw

5255003310_f4f679c81b.jpg

Note that fitting in the foreground is crushed and the hose in front of it is rubbed through. Also the four return hose fittings where all broken off .

All the electrolyte in the tank had leaked out.

So I pulled the fuse for the cell and the fuse for the pump, zip tied the hoses out of the way and continued on the rip ride.

By the second stop for gas I was experiencing an intermittent odometer. It would stop working for miles and then sudden start up again.

I also had to adjust my chain to nearly the limit on the eccentric.

And I still wasn't up to the RIP ride.

Made it home safe from the RIP ride, although the odometer would come and go,

Also when I got home my rear tire looked like this

5256329707_e0b9284e7b.jpg

5256329837_563bdab692.jpg

4861466028_9183e29e94.jpg

the chain was also shot.

And the mileage figured from google maps and other peoples gps logs worked out to be about 38mpg.

So I ordered a chain and a set of Angel ST's from Jake Wilson,

I pulled the tank to fill the holes, called for new fittings and went to buy more sheet aluminum.

Working ebay netted the paypal $$ to get an Autotune Module.

This time the sheets cost three times as much as before, so the beer and pizza money for the month was spent on sheet aluminum.

Two days after I got home, My wife's car, aka the family taxi, blew up the transmission.

so dipping into the emergency savings fund, I embarked on a three week adventure in replacing a modern electronic controlled transmission.

Here is a picture of the beast

4861469072_fe108bf2aa.jpg

Thanks the old dead one. That big round hole just above the pan gasket is where the computer harness connects to take all its readings from all the sensors. It has about 20 pins and is a bugger to get off.

The black thing a few inches behind that is the electronically controlled solenoids for the Manumatic mode.

It was like the entire car was built around the transmission as a ton of stuff had to be removed just to get to the transmission.

here is part of the pile of parts in my Dad's garage.

4860844023_ac110d04a8.jpg

All I can say about that is thank god my Dad still drinks coffee.

So it was mid August before I could get back to working on the bike. Of course this was only a priority to me as my boy both had football camps, my Dad wanted to travel and my wife just kept saying "what's your rush?"

My rush was I trying to get ready for the WDGAH rally.

Of course it was still blazingly hot, so I worked until I was just about passing out in the heat of the garage.

Wednesday the 8th, just two days before leaving for WDGAH, the bike looked like this.

5256385365_ab887a82d9.jpg

This time I shaped the sheets of the tray to make the front section lower and yet not able to hit the tire, It practically parallels the battery box angle and allowed the cell to sit closer to vertical. The main tank raised unit it just touches the bottom of passenger seat and the fuse panel sits just forward of that. The pump's location was okay, I shifted it back just a bit.

But the PCM, the PCV and the AutoTune had placement issues and I needed to fit a vacuum switch for the Autotune.

In the end I moved the map sensor forward by unbolting it and using the brackets rear mounting hole to bolt it to front hole in the subframe.

That left me room to tuck the pcm up under the bodywork on the right side, pretty much right under the franken bolt.

The PCV and auto are tucked into the left side subframe rail prettymuch next to the battery.

A couple of minor adjustments to the shock controls netted another discovery, The remote hydraulic preload adjuster hose was slightly weeping fluid, so It would not give the full range of preload adjustment.

Topping off the system and then tightening the fitting took care of the preload issue.

All this got put together with some time to spare, So I had time to lay out my route to the hotel and plan on how to make it up there in time for the BBQ.

I packed much less in the way of liquids for the bike and clothes, but much more in the way of tools, so the weight was pretty close the earlier trip.

Still I had no time to put together a serious trim for the Autotune, so I guessed at a close to stoichiometric map and loaded the PCV.

On the ride up again I had the odometer die out, it was strange as it seemed to be failing when the bike was hot and in traffic, but the speedo was working and the clocks were fine.

anyway I got to the BBQ with some of the early earlybirds and parked in the row with three generations of VFR's, My ride was sandwiched between a 1098 and a bmw

5023291024_e8bef0bcf7.jpg

Again using the google maps and input from a couple of other rider's gps's, I calculated mileage on the trip up to be 43 mpg. Not bad considering I was running 85-90 for most of the slab sections, so the NJ turnpike from exit 4 to the parkway, the parkway to NY, the Palisades to Bear mountain and finally the Taconic were all done at that flogging pace. Even when I got off onto the secondary roads I was still running a good clip. I would have expected about 37-38 mpg on that.

That night I downloaded the trim tables and found huge sections had no adjustments from me really not running there.

So on Saturday, while we were flitting around on those wonderful roads, I was trying to run all sorts of strange rpm and throttle openings, to help fill out the tables.

My odometer was cutting in and out so much, that I gave up trying to get a mileage reading and I can't use the route maps because we were off them, cutting off little bits or doubling back far to often to work out a mileage by them.

On Sunday, I decided to run up to Grand Isle and check in with Dustin, It was much cooler that day so the odometer worked perfectly, but the trip was only 120 miles in one direction and I filled up in Burlington VT on the way up.

Still I showed the setup to Dustin and he noticed two things. One, the check valve between the main tank and my bubbler was malfunctioning, so the gas output to the bubbler was cycling or pulsing. That was replaced with a new check valve in a couple of seconds and then I had a steady stream of gas bubbling up in the bubbler. The second thing he noticed was that I wasn't drawing a full 10 amps with the cell, it seemed my electrolyte was too diluted so I was only drawing about 7 amps.

Still I a good quantity of gas flowing, enough to make noticeable differences in the idle speed and exhaust sound.

The run back to the hotel that night was marked by really heavy and near freezing rain.

I can tell you that my Rev'IT infinity did not lead a drop, but I nearly froze, since I had not taken enough layers with me. The suit does not let wind through, but it will get very cold on its own. An electric vest or just a couple more layers of fleece would have done the trick.

Monday came cloudy but dry and about 50 F, so I gassed up and headed home. I had checked the trims and found that the majority of the cells had adjustments.

The first tank of gas was great, pretty much everything you could ask for, but when I stopped for the second tank right before getting on the Taconic, again the odometer was not reading.

Still I got home without any other troubles, and calculated that the run home netted right about 46mpg.

Again I was running hard and fast on all the slab and managed to dodge the evening rush hour traffic bottlenecks on the turnpike.

A couple of days after I got back, went to add more electrolyte to the main tank and discovered that I did not have 12V at the fuseblock.

Digging a little deeper, I found that the even with the auxiliary fuse block disconnected the bike was properly charging.

It was hovering about 12.2 and would occasionally dip to 11.8, when it did that the Odometer would stop functioning until the bike was restarted.

I was floored, here I bad been riding around since July on a dying R&R.

So our own tightwad got my business as I ordered one of his hd R&R's and an old chunk of aluminum plate got cut to act as a mounting plate/heat sink for the new unit.

I did a short video of that installation along with the current HHO Install and posted it on Youtube.

Now I have not been riding much since, so I have not had a lot of time to get the Autotune dialed in more. I've been busy drawing up the next version of this cell (it will be thinner and more efficient at the same time.), a separate gas cell design where the Hydrogen and Oxygen come out separately (allowing conditioning of the two gases before injection into the intake), and a direct fracturing injection system (along with a cold fog expansion media).

So the 80mpg VFR is not here yet, but I have lots of work on the planning table trying to get us there.

Money has always been the issue, that's why we are trying for the Pepsi refresh everything vote. Please help.

go HERE and vote for the project.

A lot of that research is going to be needed to create the 80 mpg VFR or even a completely renewable fueled VFR.

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Thanks for the update, John.

I will repeat one of a previous posters comments, and say that you doing a project such as this, can not possibly lose,

Even a negative result, will be a win for you.

It appears that all the problems you are having are not a product of the technology you are trying, but rather a product of your method, which is mostly governed by your small research budget.

Keep up the great work.

looking forward to your next installment

Tom

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Before you tear down your current setup, you've got an opportunity to collect more data and prepare for gen 2. If you can get your current setup stable, you'll learn a lot more and save effort in the long run. It's OK for now if you can't run over rough roads (maybe tough to find in New Jersey, eh?).

- You've already seen the level of doubt so you'll have to have bombproof data to back you up. If you're just doing it for yourself, then you should be your own worst critic.

- Get a baseline on fuel consumption post PCV install, pre Brown's gas. Make sure your bike is in excellent working order.

- This science stuff is tough work, you've got to make just as many runs on the unmodified setup as you're making with the generator going. Hit the pike and figure out a circuit, you need to show that you can achieve consistent results on the unmodified bike.

- It would be good to do some A/B comparisons. Can you easily switch the generator on/off without affecting the bike's operation? You need to show repeatability - so going back and forth several times under identical conditions is important.

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