Jump to content

3 yellow wires connection....


Sabredood

Recommended Posts

  • Member Contributer

Well I must say this has been quite an interesting thread to read. For now, I'm leaving the crimped connectors on. It will be easy enough to check on them over the summer and see if they're "behaving".

I'm starting the chain tomorrow, just got the tool from a friend. Once that's done, I'll go on the hunt for any other bad connections, ESPECIALLY grounds! I suspect Serenity is on to something about the grounds as there seem to be lot of electrical problems occurring, especially with the older bikes and I don't recall seeing much advice about checking ground connections when these occur.

This winter, I may get ambitious and make some of the mods that Serenity has done, but for now I just want to make sure that the stock connections and grounds are rock solid.

Thanks everyone!

Last week they had a sale for this Harbor Freight chain tool for $9.99! It probably wouldn't do a great job of breaking the chain if you did a lot of them (pins would probably break like all cheap chain breakers do -even the Motion Pro chain breaker is prone to breaking pins). But it would do a bang-up job of mushrooming the rivet heads as it doesn't take much force at all to do that -it just needs to be lined-up force. No press plates are included but you can just press the master link together with a pair of channel-locks or other pliers or use an old master link as a press plate -whatever.

This is an awesome deal for a chain tool. And I just bought an expensive on last month. I knew HF would come out with one the minute I got a nice one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

From one union man to another thanks. I can honestly say my attempts at soldering have looked more harmful than helpful. Gonna go through my grounds too.

If you really want to solder a wire the easiest way to do it is to get some plumbing flux and just dip the wire into it and then roll it around a little bit under your finger to get the flux under all the strands. Then when you touch the solder to the wires it just flows in. Without the flux the solder beads off and drips away and you don't get a good connection (cold solder joint).

IMHO it's harder to get a good solder joint that won't melt or crack under vibration than it is to get a good crimp -especially if you use anti-ox grease which makes it even easier as the grease lubricates the strands and helps the connector barrel push it aside and deform it properly so it doesn't wiggle. It's like the difference between trying to tighten a nice lubed nut on a bolt over one that is dry and rusty. Plus the grease ensures a good electrical connection as well as a good mechanical one.

I shudder to think at how many people thought they were getting a good solder joint on some wires only to have a crappy cold joint that cracked and failed after it went through a few radical heat cycles. Heating and cooling cuases a joint to expand and contract. The spring action of a crimp will accommodate this. A poor solder joint will just crack open and begin to fail -especially if there is vibration present. There is a reason why Honda doesn't solder the wiring harness on is bikes and it isn't just because they are cheap and want to work fast. Heat, high loads (more heat), and vibration are the enemy of solder. It's brittle stuff that doesn't bend or flex for crap, and it's expansion qualities are not the same as copper so the solder and the copper are not growing and shrinking with the temperature at the same rate. Soldering aluminum wires is even worse.

Without getting into the solder vs crimp debate.

Under no circumstance use plumbing solder on electrical connections

Check out someones plumbing where the plumber did not wipe the joints after soldering, GREEN

Electrical wire especially stranded with its large surface area will corrode and fail if subjected

to the corrosiveness of plumbers flux.

Resin core only!! on small scale wiring electronics, automotive/motorcycle.

Procedure: CLEAN the wire till it looks new, make a good mechanical joint, apply heat with a sufficiently hot

iron to the wire, add resin core solder, do not move the joint till it sets.

Method I like for insulation is to feed heat shrink onto the wire prior to soldering, solder, let it cool,

place some form of sealer on the joint, slide the heat shrink over the joint, apply heat to shrink.

Forming the wire back into the loom and zipping it all together reduces movement and resulting failures

due to movement/vibration to a minimum.

Now into the debate, properly done both soldering and crimping will work within their ranges. Wouldn't crimp

a 26 guage wire, wouldn't solder a 000 cable.

Please no comments about checking out someones plumbing :biggrin:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Check out someones plumbing where the plumber did not wipe the joints after soldering, GREEN

Electrical wire especially stranded with its large surface area will corrode and fail if subjected

to the corrosiveness of plumbers flux.

If you were either an electrician OR a plumber and ever sold scrap "copper" you would know that the ductile copper alloy used in electrical wires and the rigid copper alloy used in plumbing pipes are NOT the same thing. The guys who buy scrap copper will give you two different prices for the two different alloys and they WILL NOT mix them in their hoppers.

Apples and oranges.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Check out someones plumbing where the plumber did not wipe the joints after soldering, GREEN

Electrical wire especially stranded with its large surface area will corrode and fail if subjected

to the corrosiveness of plumbers flux.

If you were either an electrician OR a plumber and ever sold scrap "copper" you would know that the ductile copper alloy used in electrical wires and the rigid copper alloy used in plumbing pipes are NOT the same thing. The guys who buy scrap copper will give you two different prices for the two different alloys and they WILL NOT mix them in their hoppers.

Apples and oranges.

True BUT that's also due to purity, ever look inside an old copper pipe, nasty (hey I drink water that flows in those pipes) :fing02: .

See this link with regard to purity page 8 (spoiler 99+%) http://www.gfxtechnology.com/B88.pdf

I have had to re-repair some amateur repairs that were done with acid core solder and/or plumbers flux same result, the joint was ok but

the flux wicked up the strands and turned that nice copper wire green. Really sad when the wrong flux was used on printed circuits.

Electrical wiring, clean surfaces and resin core only.

More like Delicious and Granny Smith

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Couple of points I wish to make...

Bad soldering is like bad welding...it can look good and fail when you need it most. Those who learn to weld should do so with Oxy-Acetylene, not a Mig welder. Solder is the same thing...you have to understand the basics to do it right. I learned how to solder wires in automotive trade school...if it wasn't the right thing, I am confused why they were teaching it...of course they didn't suggest we go wire our houses the same way.

Crimping a joint is just a good idea...I do this on every joint....THEN I solder them. I do use heatshrink, but I use it to protect from grounding more than from moisture...look at the loom on your bike...they use heat shrink and tape there...

I use epoxy filled heat shrink, works as well as mastic tape and is much simpler. This does keep moisture out (and also in if there is any) and yes, moisture could get in...but a soldered joint won't build resistance like just a crimped joint.

The ground is VERY important...that's why the VFRness has extra wires going to a new ground point. Part of the failure on the Stator connector is not a bad connector, but instead a bad internal ground on the R/R, which shows itself on the connector because that crimped joint has the highest resistance...it fails first.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Couple of points I wish to make...

Bad soldering is like bad welding...it can look good and fail when you need it most. Those who learn to weld should do so with Oxy-Acetylene, not a Mig welder. Solder is the same thing...you have to understand the basics to do it right. I learned how to solder wires in automotive trade school...if it wasn't the right thing, I am confused why they were teaching it...of course they didn't suggest we go wire our houses the same way.

Crimping a joint is just a good idea...I do this on every joint....THEN I solder them. I do use heatshrink, but I use it to protect from grounding more than from moisture...look at the loom on your bike...they use heat shrink and tape there...

I use epoxy filled heat shrink, works as well as mastic tape and is much simpler. This does keep moisture out (and also in if there is any) and yes, moisture could get in...but a soldered joint won't build resistance like just a crimped joint.

The ground is VERY important...that's why the VFRness has extra wires going to a new ground point. Part of the failure on the Stator connector is not a bad connector, but instead a bad internal ground on the R/R, which shows itself on the connector because that crimped joint has the highest resistance...it fails first.

Had a no start session last year at work, no will not admit to reason, but while unsuccessfully trying to repair the problem took several grounds off cleaned them reattached them after smearing with a bit of dielectric grease, yes I know it's an insulator but it does inhibit corrosion.

Once the real problem was resolved :fing02: ran noticeably smoother, I believe better grounds are reason for the slight improvement.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy.