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Fuel injector cleaning


kaldek

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I don't think your insurance company needs to know if you are adapting the kit to a bike you already own -- it didn't come with it stock, and with most companies I've dealt with, they only care about the OEM specs of the vehicle you're covering. Now, if you purchase a motorcycle with a supercharger already on it, that's probably a different story.

I've also noticed that the insurance forms have a check box for Turbo/Nitrous, but not one for Supercharger, and besides, the kit is intended for off-road use only anyway...

:rolleyes:

The issue would be getting them to cover the repair/replacement of said unit if the bike took a tumble...there is exposed hardware that would certainly be damaged by a slide on the right side. I would assume coverage for accessories would be enough, but that is an additional cost.

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thanks for the write up and posting your experiences.

I have a gutted cat and PCIII, any potential benefit from fitting the 12 hole injectors to a 5th gen? increased fuel atomization? better power or more economical mileage?

How about adding an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator while in there?

carver

Nah mate, there wouldn't be a lot of difference. These things are minute changes, not big ones.

Since you already have the PCIII, you already have a tunable fuel pressure regulator - it's the PCIII itself! All it does is richen or lean out the mixture, which is all that a modified pressure regulator does (and the regulator can't be tuned for different revs and throttle positions).

Basically you've got yours as nice as she can get, unless you don't have a custom tune yet.

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  • 1 month later...
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I had my bike sitting with no fuel for over a month, sused out the fi codes and fixed them then came to the conclusion that my fuel pressure regulator was bad. This requied me to remove the fuel rail. So out came the fuel injectors and they were nasty. I cleaned the whole throttle body with a spray on carb cleaner, sprayed the inside of the injectors and let them soak in sea foam overnight. Here is the rub. The seals were 12 years old and the manual says to replace the seals whenever you remove the injectors. I did notice on the 98 vfr the injectors sit inside a cone shaped oriface inside the flat o shape seal - there is no way they are falling into the engine they would just get wedged inside that cone. ( I am sure by design )

Turns out the Injectors for my 98 are a common part for many cars too - I did some reseach and there are about 12 honda cars that use the same injector and seals. I found a replacement kit at Napa and did a side by side comparison - no difference. They have a more expensive brand that uses a superior oring too.

These are the same part numbers for my 1998 vfr

16472-PH7-003 OEM Honda Accord SEAL RING, INJECTOR (OTSUKA)

16473-PD6-000 OEM Acura CUSHION RING, INJECTOR (OTSUKA)

91301-PM7-003 Acura Fuel Injection Corp. Fuel Injector Seal Kit for Acura Integra 1.8 GS 4dr

NAPA REPLACEMENTS

Fuel Injector Seal Kit

Product Line: Echlin Fuel System

Part Number: CRB 212089

Fuel Injector Seal Kit

Product Line: Altrom

Part Number: ATM IK2903

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  • 3 weeks later...
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UPDATE: It turns out my injectors were corroded and cleaning them has released the beast, and now they leak. It's not the fault of the clean itself - the injectors were on borrowed time.

Sourcing a replacement set of 4 injectors is my only real option to fix this. Unfortunate, but somewhat lucky I found this before I tried to fit a supercharger.

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You would think, after cleaning the injectors, that they would pressure test them to see if they leak????

Yes, yes you would. The guy didn't specifically do a leak test. I didn't think anything of it at the time.

He did say to me in an E-Mail yesterday that he does not guarantee that leaks won't develop. If there was a leak right away though, it would have been nice to find out because I've been faffing about for weeks spending money chasing ghosts.

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  • 9 months later...
Guest wdebdy

On the injector, the most likely part which will need replacing is the large rubber grommet you can see here near the electrical connector. It's a dust seal, and gets crushed by the fuel rail. Mine had degraded a fair bit, but the nice injector cleaning man said he had plenty of those in his stock.

gallery_380_5242_21217.jpg

When all the injectors were off, the injector cleaning guy put them on his ASNU injector diagnostics rig handily mounted in the back of his van. All he needed was some mains power, and we were off.

And the results - a 7% increase in flow (but see below for the hidden problems with my injectors I discovered later):

gallery_380_5242_2302698.jpg

Injector cleaning flow report

Just a couple of quick questions if you can help me. Based on the first pic can you confirm the factory injectors are Denso 4480's like these?

d4480.jpg

Also, with the flow testing showing the flow rate of 55 what is the measurement basis for this? I'm presuming it is cc and if so what time period do they measure it over? Presuming only 10 to 15 seconds.

Any help or confirmation on these points would be much appreciated.

Callum

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Just a couple of quick questions if you can help me. Based on the first pic can you confirm the factory injectors are Denso 4480's like these?

d4480.jpg

Also, with the flow testing showing the flow rate of 55 what is the measurement basis for this? I'm presuming it is cc and if so what time period do they measure it over? Presuming only 10 to 15 seconds.

Mate I have no idea. Nobody recognised or could even look up the part for me here in Australia. They had zero clue - at one point all I wanted was to buy some of these from an injector supplier to avoid the ridiculous prices Honda want to charge ($260 per injector) but had no luck.

The flow rate testing - as I understand it on an ASNU machine - is the number of millilitres of injector test fluid distributed in 30 seconds at 50psi and a specific duty cycle. What that duty cycle is I do not know, but could probably be gained by investigating the ASNU website.

I think in reality they use these readings mainly to confirm if the injectors are flow matched rather than compare them to a manufacturer's claim. They do pre-clean flow tests, clean them and then run a post-clean flow test for comparison.

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Thanks for the help, I will keep investigating. :fing02:

I should at least say they are definitely Denso injectors, and the example you showed me looks exactly like the injectors off my bike. The only difference is the other numbers printed on the body.

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Since it looks like the exact same injector, and has "4480" cast into it, I would hazard a guess that it is indeed a Denso 4480. :biggrin:

Ciao,

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Guest wdebdy

Yeah, I expect it is that injector. Just wanted to be certain (more so about flow rates) before I spend any money. Looking to use 2 sets of VFR800 throttles on a small Toyota V8 so trying to confirm they will provide enough fuel, based on the specs on the Witch Hunter site should be plenty big enough for what I need.

Callum

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  • 7 years later...
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I have a 2005 that I purchased used. I suspect that it probably spent at least a few years garaged and unridden. The notion that old fuel thickens and clogs the perforations or that the old seals fail just makes sense to me, so  I'm inclined to pull the injectors and have them serviced. At the same time, I've also read that having the fuel injectors serviced is a form of performance voodoo. To my mind, the strongest argument in favor of the "voodoo" analysis is that inspecting the fuel injectors is not mentioned anywhere in the Honda maintenance schedule.

 

Why would having the injectors inspected and/or serviced be omitted from the maintenance schedule?

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12 hours ago, RobF said:

I have a 2005 that I purchased used. I suspect that it probably spent at least a few years garaged and unridden. The notion that old fuel thickens and clogs the perforations or that the old seals fail just makes sense to me, so  I'm inclined to pull the injectors and have them serviced. At the same time, I've also read that having the fuel injectors serviced is a form of performance voodoo. To my mind, the strongest argument in favor of the "voodoo" analysis is that inspecting the fuel injectors is not mentioned anywhere in the Honda maintenance schedule.

 

Why would having the injectors inspected and/or serviced be omitted from the maintenance schedule?

I can tell you from experience, having the injectors professionally cleaned made a HUGE difference in the performance on both my VFRs. Clogged or poorly functioning injectors i.e. dripping, can affect MPG and throttle response. I dropped mine off at a place in Torrance, Ca (RC Fuel Injection) and they were ready in about a day. When they hand them over to you, they provide a before and after sheet showing the condition when received and then after cleaning. Here are the results from my 2009 and 2001 injectors.

 

The 09 were done in June and the 01 were done in July. At the time, the cost was $96 for a set of 4 and this came with new seals and o-rings. It is now $100 for 4 but from what I hear there are cheaper places to have this done, so maybe others who have had this done can chime in. I've taken both my sets and two other friends sets to RC and all have had a similar if not slightly different starting point but all had a much better "after" experience.

 

As far as why it is not in the manual, your guess is as good as mine.

RC Engineering Injector cleaning.jpg

RC Engineering Injector cleaning-Originals.jpg

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Looks like the 5th gen pumps about 240 CC/min whereas the 6th gen pumps 250 CC/min on average. 

 

I believe the 5th gen has a single hole whereas the 6th gen has a shower injector. That probably accounts for the difference. 

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41 minutes ago, Stray said:

Looks like the 5th gen pumps about 240 CC/min whereas the 6th gen pumps 250 CC/min on average. 

 

I believe the 5th gen has a single hole whereas the 6th gen has a shower injector. That probably accounts for the difference. 

To add to that, I believe that the later 6 gens (2006+) had the 12 hole injectors. Of course I could have that wrong.

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  • 5 weeks later...
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Is it possible to fit 6th gen injectors on a 5th gen? 

 

I know @rangerscott69 did a full throttle body transplant (6th gen TBs onto a 5th gen) but was wondering if only the injectors could be swapped?

 

Mine (1997) are looking quite tired after 21 years and 70k miles. Would like to see if I can get a bit more MPG with the 6th gen squirters. 

 

By the way @rangerscott69, did you notice any improvements with your swap? Is it worth doing? The thread doesn’t say (and is now closed). 

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4 hours ago, Stray said:

Is it possible to fit 6th gen injectors on a 5th gen? 

 

I know @rangerscott69 did a full throttle body transplant (6th gen TBs onto a 5th gen) but was wondering if only the injectors could be swapped?

 

Mine (1997) are looking quite tired after 21 years and 70k miles. Would like to see if I can get a bit more MPG with the 6th gen squirters. 

 

By the way @rangerscott69, did you notice any improvements with your swap? Is it worth doing? The thread doesn’t say (and is now closed). 

The injectors on my 09 and my 01 are different, so with those two years, the answer would be no.

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I'm pretty sure the fuel rails on all the 6th gens were ALL different than the 5th gens. Those injectors won't be swappable.

 

That said, if you want that last mile per gallon, cleaning and flowing might really help. probably better than adding a higher flowing injector of a different type to the relatively primitive 5th gen injection.   I flowed mine (also at RC, I think it cost me $24 each plus shipping) as my plugs definitely showed differences. Two were great, one was ok, one was dripping. Now they are all flowing between 240 and 241 and the throttle response in the midrange was noticeable when they went back in. The new plugs all looked the same last time I read them (5000 miles after the cleaning).

 

I don't know how much better mileage was as I had other problems there. But it's a hell of a lot less of an effort than modifying.

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Thanks for the replies, gents. I’ll take your advice and get mine cleaned up. 

 

I thought they might need replacing and if so, I may as well get the 12 hole versions that atomise better. But since they don’t fit there’s no point. 

 

I’m worried mine aren’t worth flowing. A few guys on here have reported leaks after flowing as internal corrosion leaves pitting. If I flow them and they leak that’s £100 I could have put towards newer gear. 

 

Hispanic Slammer found some interesting car injectors that match. Might also look into that. 

 

Stray 

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I believe the injectors for CRV's around the same model years, are same as the 5th gens..  those can be had cheaper than sending injectors off to be cleaned.

 

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If you don't want to gamble on cleaning, ebay and Amazon both have  genuine VFR800 labeled injector sets, 4 for $185 or so. Brand new. And the ebay has what it claims are new injectors for $25 each to the US. I bet a similar deal that'll ship to the UK exists. Though I'm dubious that the $25 ones are genuinely OEM. Proper Honda branded ones are still to be had for $35-40 each.

 

Part number is 06164-PCA-000   -- it's the same for all applications including CRV.

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