Jump to content

5th Gen Engine Modifications


sa1713

Recommended Posts

  • Member Contributer

I agree Larry, the cams are key for this motor. If we can find someone to make some relatively inexpensive cams for the 5th gen then all kinds of doors should open.

This might be cheaper in the long run... at least you can get your money back and then some...

http://cgi.ebay.com/...e=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

I agree Larry, the cams are key for this motor. If we can find someone to make some relatively inexpensive cams for the 5th gen then all kinds of doors should open.

This might be cheaper in the long run... at least you can get your money back and then some...

http://cgi.ebay.com/...e=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Good point, but that one bike will only help the one guy who buys it!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm checking with the EBD to see if the cams can be worked as well.

On another note regarding the PC V for my 98 non Cali model. Coderighter installed a PC V on his 6th gen and also has the Autotune. He has mapped by gear/speed, temp, and has a vacuum switch for turning the Autotune off/on during accel and decel.

We've discovered that the 5th gen wire harness matches along years so I can tap into it for the map by gear/speed and engine temp without issue. The vacuum switch was another story. Coderighter removed his EVAP canister and solenoid and used the vacuum hose to tap into the four vacuum hoses connected to the injectors. On my bike, no such thing, the four hoses die at the airbox and never join each other. So, I'll find a 4 into 1 connector, add a length of hose and drop a vacuum switch onto that. This will solve my vacuum source hunt.

Many thanks to Coderighter for diagnosing my situation.

More as I get it.

I have 4 vac hoses out back of my airbox, runs the starter valve (or at least thats where I hook up to balance the starter valve). I do have a Cali bike tho, so YMMV.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...
  • Member Contributer

More engine info.

Got some pics of the tear down. The cylinder heads are a bit crispy with carbon, as you can see in the photo where he scraped the soot off. Those are the areas where the EBD will add material and "weld it shut". On the cyl that had the bad cam, a bit more carbon as the lobe had been worn to not allow full motion, capturing the burnt gases and not allowing them to escape.

post-2785-127085733295_thumb.jpg

post-2785-127085735889_thumb.jpg

post-2785-127085730632_thumb.jpg

The work on the water pump was more than I first reported. He also milled down the cover to decrease the area. Decreasing the area allows less cavitation.

post-2785-127085728055_thumb.jpg

Here is a shot of the Autotune sensor. I've located it here as it is the only place that won't foul the suspension linkage, and I can route the harness up and near the driver's peg holder.

post-2785-127085737577_thumb.jpg

Coderighter and the boys down under have kept up with the PCV testing. Once I get the bung welded on, I too will jump into this. Coderighter was kind enough to assist with the vacuum switch I'll be using to turn the Autotune on and off depending on load/no load.

I can't install the PCV yet as the bike is at the pipe dude for the custom up pipe/ Y to connect to the Laser cans. I hope to have it back mid next week.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is a shot of the Autotune sensor. I've located it here as it is the only place that won't foul the suspension linkage, and I can route the harness up and near the driver's peg holder.

<.....>

Coderighter and the boys down under have kept up with the PCV testing. Once I get the bung welded on, I too will jump into this. Coderighter was kind enough to assist with the vacuum switch I'll be using to turn the Autotune on and off depending on load/no load.

I can't install the PCV yet as the bike is at the pipe dude for the custom up pipe/ Y to connect to the Laser cans. I hope to have it back mid next week.

Well I see you are putting the bung in the tail end of the collector. I'm just going to swap out one of my stock o2's for now.

Where did you find the 4 into 1 for the vacuum switch?

I already have the switch from Coderighter, but was waiting on the PC V and autotune to arrive before installing it.

I'm sitting here waiting for my pcv to arrive, and I should have already had the autotune in hand (damm ebay copyright policies).

My underseat area is going to be a solid mass of equipment by the time I get all the stuff installed.

Edited by JES_VFR
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Well I see you are putting the bung in the tail end of the collector. I'm just going to swap out one of my stock o2's for now.

Where did you find the 4 into 1 for the vacuum switch?

I already have the switch from Coderighter, but was waiting on the PC V and autotune to arrive before installing it.

I'm sitting here waiting for my pcv to arrive, and I should have already had the autotune in hand (damm ebay copyright policies).

Coderighter dumped his EVAP system and ran that vacuum plumbing to the switch. The EVAP plumbing is a 4 into 1 with the 1 now being used to link to the switch. On my non-EVAP model, I'm going to unplug those four vacuum hoses that connect to the sides (2 each side) of the airbox, and T those into a 4 into 1. Then I'll run a hose from that to the switch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Coderighter dumped his EVAP system and ran that vacuum plumbing to the switch. The EVAP plumbing is a 4 into 1 with the 1 now being used to link to the switch. On my non-EVAP model, I'm going to unplug those four vacuum hoses that connect to the sides (2 each side) of the airbox, and T those into a 4 into 1. Then I'll run a hose from that to the switch.

Okay I'm following that. My question was were did you find the 4 into 1 "T"??

Auto parts store or somewhere else??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Might want to try an aquarium store?

Something like this (quick google search of 4 into 1 air hose aquarium)

Edited by y2kvfr
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Okay I'm following that. My question was were did you find the 4 into 1 "T"??

Auto parts store or somewhere else??

Doink! I forgot to mention Coderighter used the old vacuum hose system that connected to the EVAP system. In that system there already was a 4 into 1 T. If you don't have that, I obtained a 4 into 1 from a 6th gen and will use that to tie into the vacuum switch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Might want to try an aquarium store?

Something like this (quick google search of 4 into 1 air hose aquarium)

Yeah I was thinking about something like this 4 into 1 manifold

I just wasn't sure of the sizes, so I was asking what others have used.

I wish that someone had a cut away of the throttle bodies that could show where all air passages enter into the intake tract.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Dave Dodge and MegaCycle are still in the cam business.

Dave Dodge to the rescue :pissed:

I spoke to him this morning and he said he could do some cam work. He finished a 5th gen last year with very good results. That job included a 1 over bore and some other stuff...

I've linked up with my EBD who will contact Dave direct and they'll do their engineering stuff.

Great call Seb. Thank you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dave Dodge and MegaCycle are still in the cam business.

Dave Dodge to the rescue :laughing6-hehe:

I spoke to him this morning and he said he could do some cam work. He finished a 5th gen last year with very good results. That job included a 1 over bore and some other stuff...

I've linked up with my EBD who will contact Dave direct and they'll do their engineering stuff.

Great call Seb. Thank you.

And he gets a hot cam?! :pissed:

This thing is going to be a beast when its done! Can't wait to see the final product!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

sa1713,

I have not seen it discussed on this thread, and don't know if it is a possibility w/ the VFR, but have you given any thought to lightening the flyweel? Maybe lightening and re-balancing the cam drive gears? It would allow the motor to spin up much quicker/easier :laughing6-hehe:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Yep, the EBD is eyeing all possible details including those you mentioned.

Right now he has some additonal HRC performance information to grind into his melon and spit out a balanced course. The trick he said is to balance all components so that each is complimentary of themselves. Otherwise, he could have bored it out and called it a day.....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Yep, the EBD is eyeing all possible details including those you mentioned.

Right now he has some additonal HRC performance information to grind into his melon and spit out a balanced course. The trick he said is to balance all components so that each is complimentary of themselves. Otherwise, he could have bored it out and called it a day.....

This way also sounds cooler, and therefore he can probably charge WAY more too. :goofy:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dave Dodge and MegaCycle are still in the cam business.

Dave Dodge to the rescue :goofy:

I spoke to him this morning and he said he could do some cam work. He finished a 5th gen last year with very good results. That job included a 1 over bore and some other stuff...

I've linked up with my EBD who will contact Dave direct and they'll do their engineering stuff.

Great call Seb. Thank you.

Nice work, I'm very interested in seeing the results of all this effort! :fing02:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...
  • Member Contributer

Latest update.

The EBD is waiting for the cams to return from Dave Dodge.

He is going to lighten the flywheel. I'll have the before and after weight for publication as well as output.

I did a rough routing of the PCV and also soldered on two leads that will allow map by gear and engine temp. Not as hard as I imagined as the locations of the pins were about as obvious as the rising sun.

post-2785-071250600 1275785085_thumb.jpgpost-2785-017309400 1275785095_thumb.jpgpost-2785-014203800 1275785102_thumb.jpg

I stuffed the wires into a split loom and ran them to the rear of the subframe for future connection.

I researched some readily available K&N rectangle air elements, looking for something that would fit inside an OEM plate. Alas, I found the elusive Citeron, part number 33-2227 with a thickness of 29mm (about 9mm more than OEM) which provides approximately 40% more filter area.

I cut out the used filter material from an OEM element and I'm awaiting the K&N for final fitment.

post-2785-097346700 1275785121_thumb.jpg

Meanwhile, I received a vacuum switch from Jon (Codewriter) that will be used to turn the Autotune on during accelleration and off during decel. First I needed to source a 5 way vacuum terminal and then extend the OEM hoses which terminated on the sides of the lower airbox.

OEM hose location:

post-2785-057467900 1275785139_thumb.jpg

5 way vacuum hose relocation:

post-2785-009830300 1275785150_thumb.jpgpost-2785-097166700 1275785159_thumb.jpg

I've tested the vacuum on and off throttle and the values Jon provided me will work out spot on! The switch he sold me(the same as he's advertising) was simple enough to set and wiring will begin shortly. Awaiting block off plates.....

That's all for now.

More as I get it.

Jim

post-2785-016730200 1275785078_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

I'm kind of interested to hear your long term opinion on the lightened flywheel. Normally when you go lighter it makes the motor twitchier, as in it's easier to make quick rpm changes. On our bike, where it's already quite "throttle sensitive", I'll be eager to hear how it runs in "cruise" mode on the highway, or you know, getting to your fun places...

Otherwise, I'm very excited by your entire project, and can't wait to see your results.

And then when you decide to toro-charge it too. :laughing6-hehe:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
  • Member Contributer

Yup, mostly electronics.

I have the complete PCV w/Autotune installed and running. All of the TPS, Speed, and Gear calibrations completed. I have the Temp input wired, and it reads voltage from my hand held unit, but the software does not yet recognize it... I've flashed (not the old lady on the corner) the firmware at least 4 times, so maybe I need to do it 4 more?

The vacuum switch Coderighter sold me works flawlessly to turn Autotune off during decel.

The block off plates were a bit of a bugger to install, but they finally went on. No leaks yet!

Now on to some data gathering and tweaking.

I'm glad I've installed this package now so when the worked engine arrives, the learning curve will be a bit quicker.

I have an air element mod that I'll have pics soon. Let's just say a lot more airflow...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Okay, some pics of the K&N custom filter mod.

First I used an OEM air element and cut out the filter material and spines.

I then ordered the wrong sized rectangle K&N, and returned it. Ordered a larger one (K&N part number 33-2629)and voala! I only needed to fab two spacers (about 3mm each side, the thickness of the OEM ABS rear fender/undertray...)

It pops right into the OEM plate. Now just a bit of epoxy to secure the spacers and then a final dose of RTV gray (MOTO) which will hold all of it nice and snug. I researched the use of the gray due to the possibility of petrol fumes eating away at the adheasive. The gray will withstand petrol.

The custom dimentsions are about 10mm less in length and that much in width, but about +10 on the depth. Just those figures I'm up about 28% more filter area, and with their better material even more.

post-2785-089111300 1277432997_thumb.jpgpost-2785-028873700 1277433023_thumb.jpg

post-2785-020927000 1277433044_thumb.jpgpost-2785-063304100 1277433064_thumb.jpg

post-2785-070948000 1277433085_thumb.jpgpost-2785-021073700 1277433107_thumb.jpg

post-2785-034580900 1277432977_thumb.jpg

Once I get the PCV set, I'll dump this into the airbox and see what happens....

Jim

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

+1 for DynoJet customer service.

After installing the PCV w/ Autotune on my current motor, I was not receiving all of the information. A couple of members had to flash their firmware a couple of times before all of the features would work. So, I reinstalled the new firmware. Almost immediately I noticed an error code (148 CAN Rx Configuration - Invalid Output Error).

So, I jot that down and call DJ for support. They recommended that I disable all of the extras and work back from there, since there is no such error code 148....

Today I was able to do a little detective work, only to find that nothing that I disabled/enabled seemed to fix the error code. Back on the phone and I remember Coderighter talking about live customer serivice, so I pulled up their site.

Doink! There it was. After speaking to a live tech dude, he worked through the network and took control of my laptop in order to trouble shoot. See, I had one lonely fuel table at 8000rpm and 60% throttle that showed -95. Tech dude tried all he could to fix including another firmware update. No go.

So, he set me up for a return.

I'm very pleased with their service. I'll update once I get the new unit installed.

Jim

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy.